Thoughts on Nolva for stand-alone estrogen control on TRT?

[Stewie]

I used to use short, 1 month runs of nolvadex to raise my HDL a couple times a year, it was fairly effective. But ultimately I think just not tanking your E2 level is also somewhat effective at keeping HDL from going too low. Androgens just seem to raise LDL and estrogens raise HDL, probably pointless unless inflammation factors also change or there is a genetic disposition for CAD.

The issue accordingly to some very intriguing literature is nolvadex impedes how effectively HDL acts in removal of LDL cholesterol, hence reverse cholesterol transport. It may be increasing the quantity of HDL, tho the functionality of it's actions are, well not so good.

 

[Kaladryn]

The issue accordingly to some very intriguing literature is nolvadex impedes how effectively HDL acts in removal of LDL cholesterol, hence reverse cholesterol transport. It may be increasing the quantity of HDL, tho the functionality of it's actions are, well not so good.

nolvadex is a fake ass estrogen

 

[Slowmoe]

No real reason to use nolva now that torem is around, IMO

 

[thethinker48]

I know John Meadows actively uses nolvadex year round with his TRT. And Dr. Serrano seems be a fan of it; I however am not sure if they up to date on a lot of this literature. I'll see if I can email JM, and he can get a response on Dr. Serrano on his member site (which is rad btw)

I've used Nolvadex in the past during cycles instead of a traditional AI; yeah aromasin had far better AI properties than nolvadex (who would have guessed ). It just took several blood tests for me to dial in my dosage. And find the "optimal" range for me; I could be within parameters but still suffer from certain sides of low estrogen.

No feelings of depression while being on nolvadex though; probably too stupid to experience depression as my mom puts it

 

[Fa Seeshus]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4759757/

Too bad there isn't a commercial transdermal product like this yet. It avoids some of the liver issues and could be put directly on the gyno area.

 

[smcstevesmc]

Ive had this issue b4 and prolactin levels were in range and I had puffy nips with pain at the touch also e2 was 20. And like i said its the nandrolone that caused it and it doesnt go away despite coming off it. I'm not running it and i still have the issue. Waiting on this nolva i ordered to cure it like I did once b4 with ralox.

Trenbolone is more androgenic but is supposed to directly interact with estrogen receptors, where nandrolone does actually cause aromatization...both are progestin-based drugs..so they stimulate the progesterone receptors too. I wish more in-depth studies were done on humans.

It is just interesting when both are compared, they are SO DIFFERENT. Both have very bad long-term effects on the cardiovascular system, when used chronically..

 

[Swifto]

Trenbolone is more androgenic but is supposed to directly interact with estrogen receptors, where nandrolone does actually cause aromatization...both are progestin-based drugs..so they stimulate the progesterone receptors too. I wish more in-depth studies were done on humans.

It is just interesting when both are compared, they are SO DIFFERENT. Both have very bad long-term effects on the cardiovascular system, when used chronically..

Yes agreed. Like when you "cruise" on 300-500mg/wk of Trenbolone...

 

[Lilleo187]

Yes agreed. Like when you "cruise" on 300-500mg/wk of Trenbolone...

Damn who cruises on that much tren?

 

[smcstevesmc]

Yes agreed. Like when you "cruise" on 300-500mg/wk of Trenbolone...

Shit just cycling half that too often will give you health issues , check your electrocardiogram and get an ultrasound of your heart.:naughty:
Tren is especially problematic, especially if you talk to a doc who sees this over and over, that is their consensus man.

 

[MR. BMJ]

Thoughts on subbing Nolva for Raloxifene or Toremifene? Or, same boat, just different compounds?

 

[Lilleo187]

Thoughts on subbing Nolva for Raloxifene or Toremifene? Or, same boat, just different compounds?

Ralox is better than nolva hands down.

 

[Stewie]

Thoughts on subbing Nolva for Raloxifene or Toremifene? Or, same boat, just different compounds?

Since I flipped the tide of discussion on the detrimental effects tamoxifen has on cholesterol efflux, taking away from the original discussion. Tho, some find it equally important when lipoproteins are discussed.

Accordingly to the aforementioned literature I was referencing, Raloxifene didn't muck-up macrophage efflux (reverse cholesterol transport) in-comparison as such as nolvadex did. So from this standpoint, if one is hyperfixated on their lipoproteins, while taming down those man boobs. Raloxifene would be a better choice.

It's been a few years since I've read the literature in it's entirety. If my memory serves me correctly, the design study was using mouse and in-vivo human cells in mouse models. One could argue extrapolation of mouse to humans since mice don't produce cholesteryl ester transfer protein (CETP) such as you and I, this could nullify the effects of different SERM's on macrophage mediated reverse cholesterol transport. Although, with the introduction of CETP in mouse models to test the hypothesis, this made it very clear on the different outcomes of HDL trafficking.

It's been a couple of years since I posted this citation. I'll see if I can find it so you can thumb through it

 

[1bigpapapump1]

Thanks to all posting on this subject.

I realize i have so much to learn yet. Makes me feel like :banghead:

 

[gungalunga]

Thanks to all posting on this subject.

I realize i have so much to learn yet. Makes me feel like :banghead:

Stewie is like Obi Wan Kenobi and we are all just lowly padawan. I'm glad we have people like you here at ProM Stewie.....

 

[aphextwin]

Yes, Stewie is a valuable contributor to PM. Stewie, if you read this what's your medical background in? Your obviously not an average Joe who has a ton of knowledge.

 

[1bigpapapump1]

Yes, Stewie is a valuable contributor to PM. Stewie, if you read this what's your medical background in? Your obviously not an average Joe who has a ton of knowledge.

I was also wondering the same thing??

 

[Stewie]

Yes, Stewie is a valuable contributor to PM. Stewie, if you read this what's your medical background in? Your obviously not an average Joe who has a ton of knowledge.

I have no formal background in medical school. I have an associate's degree in biology with two semesters of undergrad in molecular biology, in which I choose to cease any further due to a few circumstances that arose. Hopefully some day I'll venue back down that route. I'm fortunate to have close ties (friends) with several different physician's. One is a maxillofacial surgeon in whom was a professor of pathology/toxicology at the University of Louisville for 25 years. Another physician that's a very close friend is a retired hematologist/oncologist. Both have been extremely helpful in mentoring me in the aspects of these disciplines of medicine.

To put it in different terms. I'm more read than versed in some areas of medical sciences.

 

[Stewie]

Not that it may mean a lot to some. I have two children that started in the nursing program. My son's white coat ceremony was last night and my daughter is in her second year. My son's endeavors is to pursue being a Nurse Anesthetist and my daughter is reaching for her APRN.

Being a single father of three, this is beyond proud.

 

[Swifto]

Since I flipped the tide of discussion on the detrimental effects tamoxifen has on cholesterol efflux, taking away from the original discussion. Tho, some find it equally important when lipoproteins are discussed.

Accordingly to the aforementioned literature I was referencing, Raloxifene didn't muck-up macrophage efflux (reverse cholesterol transport) in-comparison as such as nolvadex did. So from this standpoint, if one is hyperfixated on their lipoproteins, while taming down those man boobs. Raloxifene would be a better choice.

It's been a few years since I've read the literature in it's entirety. If my memory serves me correctly, the design study was using mouse and in-vivo human cells in mouse models. One could argue extrapolation of mouse to humans since mice don't produce cholesteryl ester transfer protein (CETP) such as you and I, this could nullify the effects of different SERM's on macrophage mediated reverse cholesterol transport. Although, with the introduction of CETP in mouse models to test the hypothesis, this made it very clear on the different outcomes of HDL trafficking.

It's been a couple of years since I posted this citation. I'll see if I can find it so you can thumb through it

I think overall, Raloxifene is just a safer drug.

Im comparable studies with Tamoxifen looking at adverse side effects, Raloxifene seems to be the lesser of 2 evils in males and females.

Whilst its still very effective (more so than Tamoxifen) at treating male gynecomastia, as shown in this study.

 

[Delt123]

I think overall, Raloxifene is just a safer drug.

Im comparable studies with Tamoxifen looking at adverse side effects, Raloxifene seems to be the lesser of 2 evils in males and females.

Whilst its still very effective (more so than Tamoxifen) at treating male gynecomastia, as shown in this study.

Tamoxifen however has been studied for a extend period of time while raloxifene isn't but shows promising effects indeed.