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Throat Cancer, Chemo and gear

oreolo

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A very good friend of mine is veru likely to be diagnosed with throat cancer. He wanted to know if it will be harmful to his chemo if he had a couple of shots of testosterone a week just to keep his mass, while he has the chemo. He is abit reluctant to ask his doc, as in England docs act like complete twats once they hear you have been on gear

Any advice would be greatly appreciated
 

zman12

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I would say it might not be a good idea because he doesn't know how it would effect the chemo and his recovery.
 

rocketman414

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He should look into Deca.

In a study I read, I will try to find it, lung cancer patients on chemo were given nandrolone and their average life expectancy went from 5.5 for control to 8.x for the nandrolone group..

it helped greatly with preventing muscle loss,/weight loss

in addition nandrolone is being used to help treat AIDS/HIV.. it jacks up t-cells.. so that could help his immune system.

i am not a doctor so more research is necessary with something like cancer obviously... but i would say deca is the place he'd want to start.

growth hormone would/could make it worse, stay away from that.
 

rocketman414

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Cancer. 1986 Jul 1;58(1):183-6.

Influence of nandrolone decanoate on weight loss in advanced non-small cell lung cancer.
(Chlebowski RT, Herrold J, Ali I, Oktay E, Chlebowski JS, Ponce AT, Heber D, Block JB.)

The short term addition of nandrolone decanoate to combination chemotherapy given to patients with unresectable non-small cell lung cancer was evaluated in a randomized, prospective trial. Patients were treated with doxorubicin 50 mg/M2 intravenously, cyclophosphamide 300 mg/M2 intravenously, CCNU 50 mg/M2 orally, vincristine 1.4 mg/M2 intravenously, with and without cisplatin 50 mg/M2 intravenously, all given every 28 days. In addition, patients were randomized to receive either nandrolone decanoate 200 mg intramuscularly weekly for 4 weeks or no additional therapy. Patient age, disease extent, performance score, and pretreatment weight loss were similar in the two treatment arms. Objective antitumor response frequency was comparable on both treatment arms with median survival somewhat longer for patients receiving the androgen (median survival 5.5 months without and 8.2 months with nandrolone decanoate). There was a trend for less severe weight loss on the nandrolone decanoate arm (average weight loss 0.8 +/- 0.15 kg versus 0.21 +/- 0.18 kg, respectively), with half as many patients experiencing weight loss on nandrolone decanoate (25% versus 12%). A separate concurrent study has demonstrated decreased free testosterone levels in 66% of patients with advanced cancer studied prior to chemotherapy treatment, therefore, further prospective studies in which pretreatment testosterone levels are used to guide androgen administration are needed to define more precisely a role for androgen replacement therapy in non-small cell lung cancer.
 

oreolo

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Many thanks

Influence of nandrolone decanoate on weight loss in advanced non-small cell lung cancer.
(Chlebowski RT, Herrold J, Ali I, Oktay E, Chlebowski JS, Ponce AT, Heber D, Block JB.)

The short term addition of nandrolone decanoate to combination chemotherapy given to patients with unresectable non-small cell lung cancer was evaluated in a randomized, prospective trial. Patients were treated with doxorubicin 50 mg/M2 intravenously, cyclophosphamide 300 mg/M2 intravenously, CCNU 50 mg/M2 orally, vincristine 1.4 mg/M2 intravenously, with and without cisplatin 50 mg/M2 intravenously, all given every 28 days. In addition, patients were randomized to receive either nandrolone decanoate 200 mg intramuscularly weekly for 4 weeks or no additional therapy. Patient age, disease extent, performance score, and pretreatment weight loss were similar in the two treatment arms. Objective antitumor response frequency was comparable on both treatment arms with median survival somewhat longer for patients receiving the androgen (median survival 5.5 months without and 8.2 months with nandrolone decanoate). There was a trend for less severe weight loss on the nandrolone decanoate arm (average weight loss 0.8 +/- 0.15 kg versus 0.21 +/- 0.18 kg, respectively), with half as many patients experiencing weight loss on nandrolone decanoate (25% versus 12%). A separate concurrent study has demonstrated decreased free testosterone levels in 66% of patients with advanced cancer studied prior to chemotherapy treatment, therefore, further prospective studies in which pretreatment testosterone levels are used to guide androgen administration are needed to define more precisely a role for androgen replacement therapy in non-small cell lung cancer.
thank you very much. I will do some more research on nandralone and deca.

much appreciated
 

patrick

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i would devote all my energy into recovering from cancer rather than worrying about my mass. But thats just me though.
 

oreolo

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i would devote all my energy into recovering from cancer rather than worrying about my mass. But thats just me though.
I can see your point and appreciate what you are saying, but........

As he said "It is one thing being ill, it is another losing the body he has worked 2 decades for" He is adamant he is going to train right through his chemo, as to stop training will depress him just as much. Since he started training in early 90s, the most time he has ever taken off is 2 wks here and there for holidays. When he was told there was a huge chance of lung cancer 3 weeks ago, he has already lost 10lbs from worry.

i see him at the gym 7am Monday to Friday for the last few years, and as he says the routine itself stops him from eating crap as well as the compliments from friends and strangers.

I dont know if that is you in yr avatar, if it is you are in great shape...... but to lose 30 plus pounds through chemo and natural training *when you have been enhanced for years), will probably depress you further on top of trying to get better...........Then all your family and friends who have seen you at 230 lbs for like 20 yrs, willl now notice your hair fall out and your bodyweight plummet, and in turn will then start to worry, which will stress you out even further.

I dont know........ honestly if i were ill, not being able to train willl stress me out further unless i knew for certain i was terminally ill
 

patrick

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i understand. and yes thats me in my avatar. But if i had cancer i think i would be more worried about my life than about my body and the way it will look.
My father in law had blood cancer and had to take chemo. FOr the course of a few months he had absolutely no energy what so ever. Offcourse BB-ers are in better shape than my father in law :) but i doubt that i would have the energy to train when on chemo. even if i had i would rather devote my energy into healing my body. strenuous training needs a lot of energy, and you can only use it once i guess.

in case of my avatar. yes it is me. although it is an old one. 1 year after the pic was taken i stopped Bodybuilding for 2 years completely because my fulltime job and education needed my attention. Although i lost a lot of muscle and looked like shit for a couple of years i don't regret it.

There are far more important things in life than BB. I understand it is hard to lose hard earned muscle. Life is all about priorities.
 

Newman

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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Patrick, I think you might have missed this critical point the research showed.

Objective antitumor response frequency was comparable on both treatment arms with median survival somewhat longer for patients receiving the androgen (median survival 5.5 months without and 8.2 months with nandrolone decanoate).
 

Chrysler

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There are far more important things in life than BB. I understand it is hard to lose hard earned muscle. Life is all about priorities.

Yes, but there is the possibility that if he were to lose his muscle, it may put him into a furthered state of depression thus lowering his body's will to continue the good fight. While we're throwing out blanket statements and proffering them as axioms; if life is all about priorities, then beating cancer is all about outlook.
 

oreolo

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i understand. and yes thats me in my avatar. But if i had cancer i think i would be more worried about my life than about my body and the way it will look.
My father in law had blood cancer and had to take chemo. FOr the course of a few months he had absolutely no energy what so ever. Offcourse BB-ers are in better shape than my father in law :) but i doubt that i would have the energy to train when on chemo. even if i had i would rather devote my energy into healing my body. strenuous training needs a lot of energy, and you can only use it once i guess.

in case of my avatar. yes it is me. although it is an old one. 1 year after the pic was taken i stopped Bodybuilding for 2 years completely because my fulltime job and education needed my attention. Although i lost a lot of muscle and looked like shit for a couple of years i don't regret it.

There are far more important things in life than BB. I understand it is hard to lose hard earned muscle. Life is all about priorities.
I agree and disagree with some of your points....... well, maybe I dont disagree, just see things a little different. I have read books and articles that state people who stay happy and focus on creating meaning in their lives have a much better survival rate.......... So I guess I am reasoning if my friend can try and keep his normal routine he willl have better peace of mind. The 3 days after he 1st suspected the cancer, him and his girlfriend sat around the house and she cried her eyes out so much that he had to get out for fear of smashing something.

I fully get what you are saying. Part of his reason to want to hold unto mass is he doesnt want many people knowing, which is bound to happen when someone 230 lbs in decent shape drops to 200 plus having hair fall out. Definately if training and gear impedes his health even 1% I will stop him myself (even though he has 40lbs on me:) But i also think emotional health significantly helps physical health.

besides people who have chemo still have to work and what not, so I am not sure if cutting back on physical exercise (obviously not ironman style marathons) will impede recovery.

Another guy in our gym had hodgkin lymphoma aka leukemia and he trained right the way through, but i guess this is different from throat cancer.


ps. I personallly would financially better off having your mindset...... its just that taking anymore than 3 wks from the gym has me feeling like shit.....but I wont have a choice soon enough:(
 
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oreolo

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Yes, but there is the possibility that if he were to lose his muscle, it may put him into a furthered state of depression thus lowering his body's will to continue the good fight. While we're throwing out blanket statements and proffering them as axioms; if life is all about priorities, then beating cancer is all about outlook.
very good points.

Listening to alot of Tony Robbins and other speakers have made me see the importance of unwavering beleif when trying to overcome obstacles including cancer. There are way too many stories of people who have beat disease because they kept an absolute unwavering resolve to stay positive and not let depression set in.

Fully agree,.... but I can understand where Patrick is coming from.
 

knucklehed

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Doctors aren't going to know. Even after years of research studies etc. It appears that Deca may help, however many doctors may not add it based on bias/stigma etc. Then again maybe it is a bad idea in the long run.
My point is the doctor will have an opinion, another doc may have the opposing opinion... They just don't know
 

rocketman414

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patrick/others..

while retaining muscle mass/your body obviously isn't the number 1 thing while battling cancer, i don't think thats why this guy is considering AAS.

if i were faced with cancer and was not even in shape, i would run some aAS, depending on cancer, and prognosis, etc...

keep in mind, for severe cancers, the wasting away of the body is one of the main causes of death. malnutrition, etc.

if you keep body mass and hunger up, as well as t-cell count (nandrolone) then i would say you have a 3fold advantage when battling the cancer, and then... that if you have a positive prognosis.....you will retain the physique you have, better.
 

Ehren

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Good research Krisinstl...
He's right. All these drugs for muscle wasting are not given for cosmetic reasons to cancer patients, AIDS patients, etc. It's because muscle wasting causes death sometimes before the cancer or disease does.

I'd do some more research. But to my knowledge with the possible exception of Tren and orals like Anadrol vs. human Liver cells, steroids don't cause abnormal cell growth, just anabolism. In fact, even Anadrol is given to AIDS patients to increase mass, RBC, and prevent wasting, so it seems the risks outweigh the benefits there too. (Going to the Golds gym in San Francisco will attest to this.)

Too bad there's not a lot of research on EQ in humans. Increased red blood cells and a good appetite on chemo could be a good thing. But then there's the unknown effect Chemo drugs have on Blood clotting...so...Perhaps Test and Deca.

If I may ask the OP: How did your buddy get throat cancer? Just unlucky or something else?...(please don't let him say dipping...please don't let him say dipping):an:el-smi
 
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hardcoremuscle

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A very good friend of mine is veru likely to be diagnosed with throat cancer. He wanted to know if it will be harmful to his chemo if he had a couple of shots of testosterone a week just to keep his mass, while he has the chemo. He is abit reluctant to ask his doc, as in England docs act like complete twats once they hear you have been on gear

Any advice would be greatly appreciated
I was diagnosed with cancer a year ago and since than I have undergone both chemo therapy and radiation. I was 5'9, 250#, I am still 250#, and just as strong. Besides eating the only thing I have supplemented with are lba's. No-one believes that I even have cancer from looking at me, but I know. Good luck to your friend and I hope he finds his "nitch," and gets better soon.God Bless!
 

massmonster32

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Me personally I would still take test. I would personally only use about 500mg a week because I dont know if the test would cause the tumor to grow as well. But I would stay on the test but at a moderate dose and regulate your diet. Sometimes he is not gona feel like eating and feel nauseated they should give hime some phenergan or something for it. But me as a personal decision I would do it.

One it will give you something to look foward to and keep you positive when you feel well enough to train. I personally think test will help you over come a little of the weakness and tiredness. I would also throw in some clen asp and caffine stack. I wish your friend well and most importantly tell him to stay positive and that he can beat it no matter what. Keep us posted please on how he is doing thanks. MM
 

oreolo

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Good research Krisinstl...
He's right. All these drugs for muscle wasting are not given for cosmetic reasons to cancer patients, AIDS patients, etc. It's because muscle wasting causes death sometimes before the cancer or disease does.

I'd do some more research. But to my knowledge with the possible exception of Tren and orals like Anadrol vs. human Liver cells, steroids don't cause abnormal cell growth, just anabolism. In fact, even Anadrol is given to AIDS patients to increase mass, RBC, and prevent wasting, so it seems the risks outweigh the benefits there too. (Going to the Golds gym in San Francisco will attest to this.)

Too bad there's not a lot of research on EQ in humans. Increased red blood cells and a good appetite on chemo could be a good thing. But then there's the unknown effect Chemo drugs have on Blood clotting...so...Perhaps Test and Deca.

If I may ask the OP: How did your buddy get throat cancer? Just unlucky or something else?...(please don't let him say dipping...please don't let him say dipping):an:el-smi
what is dipping?

To your other question _ cigarettes, specifically 20 - 30 per day for the last 20 plus years with a 5 yr break in the middle, plus the occassional mary jane........ but I doubt Mary jane can cause it, not that one can vouch for the quallity of it. The mary is more a weekend social thing as he is 43 and a very successful business owner

I was diagnosed with cancer a year ago and since than I have undergone both chemo therapy and radiation. I was 5'9, 250#, I am still 250#, and just as strong. Besides eating the only thing I have supplemented with are lba's. No-one believes that I even have cancer from looking at me, but I know. Good luck to your friend and I hope he finds his "nitch," and gets better soon.God Bless!
Good luck and God bless you in your recovery

ps. Call me dumb, but are you saying you have managed to maintain 250 on absolutely no gear at all. Also if you dont mind,
what type of cancer is it?
How early was it caught?
Did you have periods where the chemo weakened you both physicallly and mentally
Did you stop training at all?
 

liftalot79

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Cancer would be hard....

I would just try and keep a Positive outlook myself.
I would keep doing Gear.
I would tell my family that this might happen to me(hairloss, muscle wasting, etc)
My family knows because alot of our Family has had Cancer.


Dipping= Chewing Tobacco, Snuff, Skoal, etc
 

oreolo

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Me personally I would still take test. I would personally only use about 500mg a week because I dont know if the test would cause the tumor to grow as well. But I would stay on the test but at a moderate dose and regulate your diet. Sometimes he is not gona feel like eating and feel nauseated they should give hime some phenergan or something for it. But me as a personal decision I would do it.

One it will give you something to look foward to and keep you positive when you feel well enough to train. I personally think test will help you over come a little of the weakness and tiredness. I would also throw in some clen asp and caffine stack. I wish your friend well and most importantly tell him to stay positive and that he can beat it no matter what. Keep us posted please on how he is doing thanks. MM
Thank you for the advice and warm wishes. I truely want to know if it would impede his chance of recovery 0.01% in which case I will strongly advice him to get better naturally instead. Trying to get an unbiased opinion from a UK doctor is worse than getting an elephant through a pin hole.

Just to give you an idea of how doctors treat bodybuilders in the Uk. A friend of mine has back disc issues from years of heavy deadlifting and squatting.... as soon as the doctor found out he hurt himself squatting and he was on gear, he starts reading him the riot act.spouting bullshit like and i quote "Anyone who squats over 60 kg will definately have disc issues and bad knees"

He then postponed my friends op for over 6 mths and made him practically swear to give up weights completely (in England we have free socialised healthcare so the waiting list can be very long. For sports injuries at best you will wait at least 3 - 6 mths for an MRI, after your doctor has attempted to fob you of with paracetamol. An MRI can only be authorised by a consutant only after you have exhausted physiotherapy however pointless.. NO EXCEPTIONS)
 

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