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To deplete or not to deplete?

JDog

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That is my question. The whole carb deplete & carb load idea looks really good on paper and in theory but does it really ever produce the desired results? In my experience after a 3 day carb deplete I have a very difficult time reloading adequately and wind up looking small and flat. It is during this carb up phase that you begin to deplete the water and how can you adequately reload without H20? I am contemplating a very mild deplete followed by my normal eating pattern and dropping sodium. Or possibly reloading earlier almost to the point of spillage leaving a day or two to back off the carbs if needed. Thoughts?
 

xcelbeyond

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I tend to have a similar situation. I'm able to carb deplete fine, but my body seems to take a while to load (maybe a couple of days - look better a day or 2 afterwards).

I haven't tried this a lot. The last time, which was fairly recently, I was between 5-5.5% BF, which in my opinion (for me anyways) is not lean enough. I can be very lean throughout but still have fat around my obliques and lower back. I really need to get sub 4% to look the way I should for competition.

Part of my problem may not be eating enough "simple" carbs during the load phase. I also try and eat fat during this period.

Comments re: this, anyone??

xcel
 

Mojo Rising

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Deplete

I think its reallly hard to pull this off when you get contest time. I deplete well and i carb up for 3 days 400, 600 then 300 again and i dont ever fill out right. From now on im going to do a steady carb the entire week out. I think to fill out right you need alot of simple sugars with insulin;). At least thats how the pros pull it off.
 

Armageddon

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It's difficult for someone to tweek this and get it right. You have to play around with it a couple times to see what works. Mojo are you a pro? Not to be a dic but then how do you know what they do. It's all speculation. No one really knows what someone else does, regardless of what they say. It's best to find out what works for yourself and not others, regardless if you hear this from a pro or not.
 

homonunculus

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Carb 1st, then lose the water

JDog,

I seem to have good success with doing a carb up from 4 - 2 days out from the show, increasing water intake during the entire carb-up. (Carb up is low sodium, low fat, protein at 1 g / lb.)

The more water I drink, the dryer I get. On Thurs before the show, I decide on whether to carb during the rest of the day or stop. When I finish the carb-up, I go to a pure protein diet (pro powder and chicken breast plain), increasing water over the days prvious. We're talking like 3.5 gallons by Friday, all of which I finish by 6 of 7PM.

You're peeing like a Russian Race horse during the day and the first half of the night before the show. By morning, dry as a bone, but not thirsty. I drink ~.5 liter of water the day of the show, just to match urinary output.

Also, to drive the diuresis on Thurs and Friday, I take caffeine (600 mg / day), vit. C (5 g / day), herbal diuretics, potassium (for cramping, actually) and of course the pure protein diet.

Works really well for me, but I would try it out on yourself first, of course.

Do you have a show coming up?...

-Randy
 

BIGKIWI

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carb loading defenately works well, as the others have said trial a couple of times before any show as you will learn how your body reacts to things. I usally do 3 1/2 day carb load if I do any more my stomach starts bloating out to much (that look don't appeal at all to me).
 

JDog

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Yes I will be competing soon at Nationals. Trying to map out my last week game plan. Am tired of walking onstage feeling flat. Want to come in full and round and that last week is vital!
 

xcelbeyond

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BIGKIWI said:
carb loading defenately works well, as the others have said trial a couple of times before any show as you will learn how your body reacts to things. I usally do 3 1/2 day carb load if I do any more my stomach starts bloating out to much (that look don't appeal at all to me).
Can you describe to us how many carbs you take (amounts and types), on what days (schedule)? Thnx bro

xcel
 

Mojo Rising

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Not a pro

But i do know a handful under the watchful eye of certain guru who have them carbload around the 1200 mark with the help of humalog. But your right im not a pro. Also these people were in the olympia. Obviously im not saying anything more than this b/c its not my place to say whos who and thats that :). I really dont know much more than that so dont ask what else do they take b/c i really have no idea.
\
I agree though everyone is different. For my next show , national level, im going to try around 350 carbs the entire week b4 the show...that way i dont have to worry aboout not carbing up enough after depleting.... ive always wanted to try fat loading like with sodium free pb but never have.... anyone have exp. with fat loading???
 

JDog

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my daily carb intake

Never actually calculated the exact amt but foods are as follows. It only changes if I do not train. In which case Meal 5 usually becomes 10 oz yams.

A.M. cardio
Meal 1:
12 oz white potatoes
1/4 cup oats
1 rice cake

Meal 2:
10 0z white potato

Meal 3:
1 1/2 cups rice
1 cup broccoli

Meal 4:
1 1/2 cup rice
1 cup broccoli

Train

Meal 5:
1/2 cup cream of rice
1 scoop carb powder

Meal 6:
2 cups broccoli
 

JDog

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just figured

Total carbs for the day are around 380. That includes the minimal amt found in the protein drinks. Any thoughts?:)
 

BIGKIWI

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carb load:

wed night : carb 50gram protein 50 gram before bed

Thu

meal x 8 day at least 40 grams carbs each meal ranging from potato, green veges, rice . 4-5 those meals will have protein in them. Try to have most meals when having insulin shots, when ever have insulin shots consume extra 30-40 grams simple carbs. if feel hungary snack lightly between meals

insulin 7 iu every 2 1/2 hours, try have at least 5-6 insulin shots during day, not to close to bed either

Fri

same as Thursday but later on during day gauge how looking, how bloated you feel etc

I also use things like creatine, glutamine , serum etc as I feel makes me carb up fully without holding water. This works well for me but again it is thing you must trial before hand.

Sat

again gauge how looking continue with couple more insulin loads, the main thing I have learnt is listen to your body , it will tell you what needs
 
W

wyldeone

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All very good answers!

I would agree there are alot of greta veiws on carb loading and carb depleating and it really is trial and error and everyone is different. I know that the certain Guru the Mojo is speaking of does infact carb load his guys pretty heavy the only thing is these guys carrry alot of leanbodymass as i have tried his theories on a few of my clients with mixed success althoe with the use of insulin you are able to shuttle transfer for glycogen into the muscle without spilling if you have run your water correctly. Personally I stay away from high glycemic carbs and the only simple sugars i touch are granny smith apples post-insulin as they are rapidly absorbed into the bloodstream otherwise i use low-glycemic complex carbs divided equally into 6-7 meals and usually I carb depleate my clients for a period of 72 hours(once again something this certain guru taught me!LOL) then and only then when i know glycogen levels are depleated and the client is in ketones(always check with ketosis sticks) will i start carb loading and then i start them pretty light approx.200-300 grams depending on bodyweight(if using insulin I load them even more) and taking them up if needed for a period of 3 to 3 1/2 days from there all based upon their look if they kep tightening up your right on track if they are flat add another 50-75 grams of carbs per day just make sure that they are depleating their water as you start carb loading as usually i will start clients a 3 gallons of distilled water per day and start tapering it down starting wensday night. Also Vit-c work excellent as well the last week. and make sure to take a multi-mineral(to keep the trace minerals in your body) along with all of your multi-vitamens and BCAA'S and 2 hours before stepping onstage take 10cc of synthelator as this not only works great as a vasadialator but also keeps you from cramping. best wishes wyldeone.
 
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Armageddon

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Can't you use insulin to deplete and go into ketosis faster? Wouldn't doing 1-3 iu every 2-3hrs would put you into help deplete and put you were you need to be. Is there any benefit to this, or only for long term diet needs?
 

JDog

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2 day show

The thing about Nationals is that it is a 2 day show. You not onlyhave to carb properly, but you have to maintain that fullness without spillage over a two day period. I think Iwill carb with insulin the first two days this time but then back off for Thursday/Friday. What exactly does the Vit C do that last week?
 

dpsquat

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no on the insulin

Arm i would try to carb deplete with the slin the week before it may cause you to hold water............... as far as the carb up first and foremost carb up on the SAME carbs you dieted on dont load on rice when you havent eaten it in 8 weeks! I try to keepp things simple I for on am carb sensitve and use a little natural p/b on my carb up ( ooops wylde knows now) and it works for me... I also have to make a wt class so he/we do some things different!... I like loading on the jam and rice cakes and the carbo force works wonders.. so does hohos,, twinkies,, dingdongs, candycorn and donuts
 

mike man

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Sooo...

The insulin that we're talking about here is humalog or humilin R? That is in reference to what Big Kiwi said and Wylde. I'm gueesing humalog, but I need to verify.
 

BIGKIWI

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The insulin is Actrapid which in US I think is called Hum-R
 
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homonunculus

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Re: 2 day show

JDog said:
What exactly does the Vit C do that last week?
Vit. C, in large amounts will cause diuresis, as the kidneys will reabsorb water to draw it (extra vit. C) from the blood via osmosis. High protein diets lead to lots of urea producion and the same result. Caffeine and clen. are other good things to help with losing water. As wyldeone mentioned, if you're doing all this, its important to maintain vitamin and mineral status, b/c all the water loss will tend to deplete you of these.

For what its worth, alpha lipoic acid is a nice glucose disposal agent (used in Europe to treat diabetes) and really cuts down on the chances of spilling over.

-Randy
 

eye_candy

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Fat loading

As for guy asking about fat loading, it does seem to work, but again something to play with, for me i needed a bit more water to fill out on fat loading and it starts mid afternoon on friday.
 

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