Tolerance to Mk-677?

[TheRoid]

You could also run it on keto with B6 and watch felt melt off.

It'd be nice on paper, but even with keto slightly curbing appetite I'd end up eating 7k cals from peanut butter and cheese only on Ibutamoren

 

[KillerStack]

Sometimes bloat enhancing compounds can improve "looks." All steroids are pretty much "bloating." I'd like to see a very flat bb 10 days out, someone who perhaps pushed too hard, start taking mk-677 with his usual stack. I'm not certain it would wreck a body in this situation but I haven't seen it in practise, so...

Almost no one takes Dianabol in the last stages of prep but I bet it's not at all certain his cuts would fade. Same with Anadrol but Anadrol actually is common.

Recently I started MK-677 and some at the gym said "woah, what have you done?! I can see just by your forearms you are almost back" I have been sick, lost a lot due to appetite loss and stomach problems (reflux etc). I was up like 10lbs in 10 days. Another 10 days gave another 5lbs at least. So at a poor physical starting point it can change your physique in days, regaining lost "volume." I won't say "muscle" but it looks like it when you fill your muscles with water. What it also does is bloat my stomach quickly too, especially with insulin. Maybe it's food volume in my stomach but it feels different.

 

[pesty4077]

MK677 made my BP skyrocket. It made me so lethargic, I couldn't function. No way is as good as GH to me.

 

[KillerStack]

Anyone one of you know/remember a guru named Brian Batcheldor? Back in the very beginning he wrote some lovely articles for T-nation. The way he writes doesn't make him seem like a dumbo. Yesterday searching I found a 5 year old posting by Brian on FB. Might be of interestt to someone. He claims he is a consultant to many athletes, drug choices and passing drug tests. I'll highlight many relevent parts. Appears he was working designing supps for a particular company. The GH-REM he mentions is natural GH booster. This guy has been around, even coaching Jon-Pall Singmarsson lol.


"MK677 – The story so far .....

Following on from my last piece on MK-677, I just wanted to review anecdotal feedback from users regarding pros and cons. It’s not my mission to educate the gym community...

 

[KillerStack]

Continuing:

...about this stuff, but it is a pet peeve when it comes to utter trash knowingly being re spun as information for someone’s backhanded hidden agenda. As for spiking supplements with GHs/GHRPS/SARMs, -that’s another f*****g story! There are no free rides with these compounds, they’re not totally risk free and no retailer can say for sure whose hands they’ll end up in. Most consumers would likely struggle to believe that this kind of shit really goes on, but it does, believe me. I actually have a gagging order on me at this very moment in relation to the conduct of a huge PLC that consented to spike some crappy range with a stimulant just to get their blending business. The only problem is they decided to blend the garbage in an exterior facility, -one used by both a giant of the pharmaceutical industry and one of the world’s major confectionery producers. How contaminated? Think less “raisin and biscuit” and more “disco biscuit” in your chocolate bar! Once they did it, they thought they could bury it by laying off the staff involved and setting up the new owner of the business as the fall guy. Wait till the shit hits the fan with this one!

First off, I think the effects of MK-677 on sleep are interesting. Based on the reports of lethargy, many people seem to have felt it wiser to take the whole dosage before bed. I guess this also fits in with the study that noted increases in REM sleep and decreases in deviations from normal sleep in both young and old subjects.. There was also a decrease in REM latency in older subjects. This wasn’t a particularly large study, with 8 young and 6 older subjects. Despite being referred to as “prolonged use”, the test period was 14 days. Admittedly it was matched against a placebo and there were high and low dose protocols, but it would have been useful to have recorded the effects on sleep with the earlier long-term studies out there. This becomes even more relevant when you consider that this was being looked at as a quality of life product, getting enough decent sleep is a major issue to many older people and if you told any of them you were about to give them something that could mess about with their sleep they’d probably tell you to f**k of.

 

[KillerStack]

Continuing: As I pointed out, this is a small study, whilst the positive effects were linked to the higher dosage, its difficult to assess all the compounding factors that could influence the results with such small numbers. So how does this reflect in the feedback from its rise in popularity? Without a doubt, sleep disturbances were the biggest gripe, -hands down. For some, this was quite profound, requiring an immediate switch to morning dosing. To be honest, I feel a bit of a twat here, -I always felt that this was the best approach anyway, I think I could have made that point clearer in my last review on here. Let’s forget all the stuff about endocrine changes being transient, -whilst prolactin and cortisol drop back into the normal range in most younger subjects after a short period, cortisol remains elevated in older subjects for much longer. It’s probably this that accounts for anecdotal reports of increased blood pressure after sustained use (8 weeks +). But it’s the immediate cortisol response that will be enough to disturb sleep patterns with many when taken at night, even though study results vary a bit, we can still predict such a response via this advance in both the stages of sleep and the cortisol peaks in the circadian rhythm. Please note: SLEEP IS A BAD THING TO FANNY ABOUT WITH;

 

[KillerStack]

Continuing: if experimenting with MK677, you’ll easily be using it for long enough to upset your sleep pattern for a prolonged period if you persist with taking it before bed whilst it’s causing insomnia, -it’s probably not a good idea to take it at this time. Unlike MK-677, hexarelin is a peptidyl GHS, but it’s possible to draw parallels with its effect on the sleep-wake cycle. I’ve had plenty of experience with hexarelin use over the years; iv, sc or intranasal, - it’s a great peptide with some excellent properties. I’ve also got a colleague who produced a hexarelin product for the international antiaging sector for many years (through Worldpharma), we’ve both seen how this can adversely impact sleep with evening use. Therefore, reviewing general feedback with GHRPs/GHSs, I think it’s clear to see that most reports of lethargy stem from PM use, the dramatic rise in the use of MK-677 has brought reports of this being unbearable to the point of discontinuation. Yet the contrast with AM use couldn’t be more striking; I’m typically seeing quality gains of around 4 kg (under 3 weeks) in responders being backed up with improved sleep quality, constant muscle fullness, incredible pumps, vivid dreams, elevated mood and, of course, that ravenous appetite that it’s become renowned for. As a bonus, those who have done any blood work will have found that the IGF-1 response to dosing is far more prolonged than with any other secretagogue/peptide. In fact, I feel that most people contemplating the use of this oral GHS have though it would be like using the poor second cousin of the injectable GHRPs, -nothing could be further from the truth. One of the criticisms put to me involved desensitization to MK-677 and eventual diminishing returns. Research in animals revealed that any attenuated GH response is mediated by IGF-1 and not by desensitization to MK-677, this was identified from coadministration with GH itself. So reflecting on that last observation, there wouldn’t seem to be much point in taking GH and MK-677 together, but “underground research” is saying otherwise. I’ve heard this a few times over the last year, but a trusted

 

[KillerStack]

Continuing: colleague and world-renowned strength coach has run his own trial with a group of lifters, there’s certainly a 1 + 1 =3 scenario going on here. The combination of 12.5 mg and 2 IU GH yielded results beyond those normally associated with each, particularly in terms of fat loss. Exogenous GH will elevate blood levels for around 8 hours, thus this was taken PM. The MK-677 was taken on an empty stomach right before an AM training session, but this could be upon wakening on a non-training day. To lower/block somatostatin, which puts the break on GH production, 200 mg of epigallocatechin (EGCG) from green tea and 200 mcg of the nootropic compound huperzine A were taken at the same time as the MK 677. We consulted on this protocol, it’s been used to great effect by many in recent times, -huperzine A impacts somatostatin through its efficacy as a reversible acetylcholinesterase (AChE) inhibitor, EGCH

 

[KillerStack]

Continuing:
ncreases this activity (verified by studies). This was also taken with 3 g of L-arginine and 2.2 g of ornithine, those and similar dosages have been supported by numerous studies over the years, arginine alone was the conventional approach to increasing GH/testing function. I’ve seen studies that typically demonstrate a 150% increase in GH when taken on an empty stomach by healthy individuals, strength training can increase this figure. Before anyone brings it up, I want to pick up on a popular criticism of huperzine, that being that it causes “GH bleed”. This theory has been put out there by a long-term peer in the industry, the idea being that it causes GH to be trickled in response and thus blunts the big surge you would otherwise get from using a GHRP/GHRS. The concept is nonsense, - reversible AChE inhibitors are known to blunt somatostatin, pyridostigmine is a drug that effectively elevates GH through this action, it has successfully been used both to test pituitary function and in combination with peptides like hexarelin to synergistically increase GH. There have been clinical comparisons between huperzine and pyridostigmine that established a similar impact on somatostatin; pyridostigmine is additive in its effect on the GH pulse response to hexarelin and GHRH. Would this little cocktail only be effective when using GH with MK 677? No, -I only mention it because it makes sense, I think it would certainly help when taking a full dose of MK-677 on its own. Is it perhaps an impractical combination? Again, no, -you’ll find these ingredients out there, you’ll get some variation in the dosage of L-arginine and ornithine, but you should be able to get thereabouts. As for the EGCH, you’ll need to source that within a green tea product, -look for what percentage EGCG it’s standardized for and calculate how much of the powder/capsules you need to take to hit the 200 mg. Just a brief final note on using MK 677 with GH, -this combination now makes total sense if you opt to use a low dose GH regimen in the future, a half dose of MK-677 would probably mitigate the negative feedback loop that would normally bring endogenous GH production to a grinding halt. Personally, I wouldn’t use MK-677 for more than two months continuously without some kind of break or switching to a peptidyl GHS, -something with a more transient effect in the body (e.g. heharelin). Why would this be? Ghrelin itself is a stress hormone, this is independent of its effects on cortisol. Protracted exposure to elevated Ghrelin can lead to adverse effects, which can include depression and anxiety, -it’s even been shown to enhance fear conditioning without any interaction from the HPA axis, perhaps that’s why it’s also been linked to disorders like PTSD! Ghrelin and GH are known to work together in the amygdala area of the brain to enhance fear, -MK 677 is a Ghrelin mimetic, it easily crosses the blood-brain barrier and has a half-life of over 6 hours. Joining the dots, this ease of access to the brain and the sustained release of GH, which vastly differs to the effects of the well-studied GHRPs and peptidyl GHS’s, means that prolonged use of MK-677 over many months could lead to the same effects seen with the prolonged Ghrelin elevation. I know you can readily find data showing a relatively long (in our game) history of use and clinicals of 2-year duration, but I also know that nobody will be looking at this kind of neurobiology. No need to change your underwear yet though, the hard evidence about adverse effects isn’t there yet and all feedback has been positive so far. Just stick to the guidelines, besides, those 1-2 month breaks will give you a chance to restore insulin sensitivity where applicable.

Whichever regimen you chose, I would still stick to using GH-REM at bedtime, both to support endogenous GH production and to help stem rises in prolactin through it’s L-dopa content. The sleep promoting effects should also help those that may be a little sensitive to transient rises in cortisol, but there is also one other reason. MK-677 use has been shown to increase leptin in the short term in young obese subjects, of course there’s no way of knowing if it was equally reversible in older users. With any cardiac condition/concerns, prolonged elevation of leptin has been significantly associated with pathogenic risk, the same goes for stroke, -higher leptin levels are found in those suffering from post-stroke depression. It’s safe to say that, like Ghrelin itself, elevated leptin is linked with several mood disorders. L-dopa intake is known to blunt the leptin response, this is another reason why I would suggest taking GH-REM whilst using MK-677, as its L-dopa content should impact any potential rise in leptin, temporary or otherwise. I cannot overstress this recommendation; a small group of MK-677 users who had that profound lethargy response immediately resolved this with the combination of lowering the dose and taking GH-REM. I have a major sleep disorder myself and have found added benefit from using this at night, -just make sure it’s a good 2.5 + hours after your last meal.

Years ago, the late Dan Duchaine and I shared the same agent for our seminars/consultations, the beautiful Shelley Hominuk. I will always remember Shelley telling me about Dan’s response to the judge when given his opportunity to speak before sentencing and after receiving the standard waffle about hoping he had seen the error of his ways. Dan, who had pretty much raised himself since a kid and had regularly suffered long bouts of illness in relation to the same kidney disorder that was sadly his premature demise, retorted with something pretty fitting in the current environment; “Error??? Anabolic steroids permit me to live in an enhanced state, -why wouldn’t I choose to live in an enhanced state?” Of course, we now know that all that glistens isn’t gold with AAS. We also pretty much know that there is more sensible use and damage limitation, but it’s still not truly an enhanced state, not if we closely look at what that would entail, -physically, mentally and medically. Again, I don’t want to get drawn on this publicly for various reasons.



However, today we are heralding in a new era, one where we can perhaps approach that goal of The Enhanced State through the new tools we have available to us. As long as there is some integrity left and there

one where we can perhaps approach that goal of The Enhanced State through the new tools we have available to us. As long as there is some integrity left and there are discerning customers, we can facilitate this through the growing milieu of peptides and other compounds becoming available, like MK-677 and other GHRPs and GHSs, PPAR agonists, Body Protection Compounds, peptides targeting telomerase activity/stress, nootropics, compounds promoting mitochondrial biogenesis, etc. As we’ve already seen with the various versions of MK-677 floating around, integrity will likely be the biggest hurdle."



I asked about adding GHRH.






I asked about adding GHRH.


Hi Richard. Yes, it will likely do this. However, I would also expect to see more profound cortisol and prolactin elevation also. I spoke to someone yesterday who had put on 9 kg on MK-677 alone, so you have to wonder where you go from there. If IG-1 is the limiting factor it’s also the trigger for the increased HPA activity. I think strength athletes will do well on this combination. However, those looking for “quality of life”, -better recovery, less aches, better sleep, safe blood pressure, pros and cons could tip this in the wrong direction."

 

[KillerStack]

So, just 10-12.5mg MK in the morning with EGCG, Huperzine, arginine, ornithine, L-Dopa and then 2iu of GH at night, perhaps potentiating low dose GH use, might cause this 1+1=3 scenario.

But remember this is a 5 year old post, he might have changed his opinion, I don't know.

It's still interesting, the effect on sleep is interesting for example.
I wish I could find his methyltrienolone posts, appears it was one choice of anabolic for tested athletes. And from what I recall it wan't as toxic as assumed.

 

[KillerStack]

It's interesting how he calls the gains "quality." He's been coaching Andy Bolton too.

 

[Doitagain]

Anectodically, AM dosing always made me feel great. The only time I tried using it before bed I felt so shitty (night and day) that I dropped it after just two weeks.