Traps with shoulders or back?

[Biggerp73]

So I've been doing a push, pull, legs 3-day split, but have decided to change it up and go with a more traditional 5-day split moving forward. I'm thinking:

Day 1: back and rear delts
Day 2: chest
Day 3: shoulders
Day 4: arms
Day 5: legs

But I'm wondering whether I should put traps with back or with shoulders, especially considering one of my favorite upper back exercises is a version of standing dumbell rows which hits the rear delts and traps pretty good.

 

[Fit2Serve]

delts push traps pull.
delts part of arm, traps part of back.
if ur a logical guy like me answer is pretty straight forward.
-F2S

 

[little slice]

Are shoulder raises considered pushes or pulls?

 

[Biggerp73]

Are shoulder raises considered pushes or pulls?

My brain just exploded

 

[XstarchildX]

I haven't found much of a difference. I personally like giving back its own day since it is such a huge body part and a glaring weakness for my physique. I throw in traps typically twice a week (shoulders and chest, arms and RD's).

 

[BillHilton]

Are shoulder raises considered pushes or pulls?

I've pondered that for years, lol.

No matter what trap exercise I do (I do traps on back day), I feel my shoulders working too. On chest day, shoulders get involved somewhat too. From my logs, I know my shoulders take longer to recover than any other group. Sometimes I think about not doing any direct shoulder work at all and see what might happen.

I think an upper/lower split probably makes the most sense, but that makes for a long time in the gym.

 

[johnjuanb1]

My back workout kicks my butt so I do traps with delts myself.

 

[Omegasox]

Shoulders. Back is a larger group by itself.

 

[Fit2Serve]

i guess i am just better at isolating my delts in delt exercies
back muscles worked during back muslce workouts just seems crazy logical...
-F2S

 

[Ashop]

I would do them with back myself.

 

[little slice]

I wish I could turn my traps off when training shoulders

 

[Fit2Serve]

I wish I could turn my traps off when training shoulders

thats wild slice... i literally dont engage mine at all during delt exercises.... delts are my best body part tho. i think my mind muscle connection with em is outstanding.
-F2S

 

[Rex Feral]

I wish I could turn my traps off when training shoulders

You tried the Tony Freeman method of training traps before delts/pre-exhaust traps before delts?

Rex.

 

[Yellowninja]

I do traps on shoulder day. I dont think I'd have the energy to do them on back day since I beat the crap out of my back as it is

 

[little slice]

You tried the Tony Freeman method of training traps before delts/pre-exhaust traps before delts?

Rex.

I might have to try that

 

[b-boy]

My back workout kicks my butt so I do traps with delts myself.

I agree this is how I have done it for years, only thing is now my traps are overly developed and now I train them directly once every three weeks.

When your traps get so big that they start humping your posture forward, then you need to back off as this will take away from the width of your physique from the front.
"Neil Hill" ^^^

 

[Biggerp73]

I did em with back but I will probably do them with shoulders too. Maybe do low reps, low volume, and heavy weight on back day, and then do some higher rep/higher volume/pump+squeeze sets on shoulder day. My traps are definitely not a strong point so perhaps a little extra work could help.

 

[b-boy]

I did em with back but I will probably do them with shoulders too. Maybe do low reps, low volume, and heavy weight on back day, and then do some higher rep/higher volume/pump+squeeze sets on shoulder day. My traps are definitely not a strong point so perhaps a little extra work could help.

There is no need for another day hitting them with DIRECT work, if you just switch to training them with shoulders that is more than enough work as the get indirect work on a lot of rowing and lat pull down or pull up work.
Just a thought!

 

[Tom]

I work traps on both of those days. 4 sets of shrugs 20 reps with 1 minute rest in between sets with moderate weight. 5-6 Minutes is all it takes. Far better results for me this way than when I trained them heavy.

 

[method2madness]

Those who can isolate their deltoids (all three heads) while training shoulders are better off training traps with back as they are specifically a back muscle. I train my traps only twice a month with back as they are well developed, so when i train them I always do it on back day. After thirty years I've found this to be the most consistently effective approach. Take this advice with a grain of salt as everybodys' structure and mind muscle connections are different.