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TRT - HCG/E Help & Estrogen LC/MS Vs Roche / Testosterone LC/MS Vs Roche DIFFERENCES

ugadawg91

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TRT - HCG/E Help & Estrogen LC/MS Vs Roche / Testosterone LC/MS Vs Roche DIFFERENCES

tl;dr
REFER TO PHOTOS AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP! I can provide the actual labcorp test results if needed

ATTACHED:
EXCEL COMPARISON CHART OF MY LABS
CORTISOL SALIVA TEST

25 Years Old
5'11" , 180 LB, very lean, I take an entire slew of natural herbs/vitamins/minerals/supplements every monring and night, and eat extremely healthy - my diet is filled with greens, green smoothies, omega 3s, all types of healthy fats and proteins, lower carb diet, ZERO processed food or sweeteners or artificial sweeteners.
TRT for 4 years straight from clinical low testosterone from varicocele

ISSUES: Have never been able to control my redness / bloat / energy level
Recently - low morning cortisol, bloat and grogginess every day mostly in the mornings.
Bloat, grogginess, lack of energy, has been going on for a long time.

JAN 9 2017
TRT 154MG PER WEEK
[22mg injected every morning IM]
NO AI
Resveratrol injected IM at 15mg ED only

APRIL 14TH 2017
TRT 126 MG PER WEEK
[18mg injected ED IM]
.25mg Arimidex ED - pharmacy tabs for 2 months now
100 IU HCG ED for 2 months now

NOTES:
AST AND ALT ARE HIGH FROM DRINKING ALCOHOL 2 NIGHTS BEFORE

I wake up at 6 every morning and run a good sized residential and commercial roofing company.
I take many many supplements to try to remedy the thyroid issue....IE selenium kelp/iodine vitamin D b12/complex curcumin inject zinc L Tyrosine Ashwagandha Copper iron vitamin A .... many many supps...
DIM MADE ME BLOAT SO BAD AND FEEL HORRIBLE
TMG seems to not do anything but I don't have tests to show that
Taking HCG makes me bright red and bloat up badly. I have to inject at night, 100 IU MAXIMUM
Gyno has been on and off for years now ... it got BAD in January - February, now the mass has cleared up mostly but still itches and HURTS.
Low E has me flat feeling and looking, but still watery / puffy as hell.. weird I know
High RBC / Hemoglobin / Hematocrit I think causes my chest / neck / face to be bright red all the time.. in combination with estradiol being out of wack consistently too
I get morning wood even with this low E somehow

SOME FINDINGS:
Lowered my test level, but my test and free test has gone UP from low E which is probably causing lower SHGB) and adding HCG
HCG has not raised my DHEA / Progesterone - but it will leave me bloated as all hell though
My TSH has exploded high to 3.96 ...its been high for over a year now always 2.6+ ..I do not have NEAR the energy I used to have anymore regardless of my estriadiol level !

QUESTIONS
TOTAL E IS HIGH, BUT E2 IS INSANE LOW, ESTRIOL IS LOW ?
Dhea is low, progesterone is low, and pregnenolone is low (is this an irrelevant test?) HCG isn't increasing them... why?
TSH / thyroid tests for the past year are not optimal regardless of E levels
Energy is never the same as it used to be regardless of E2 levels
Red face, chest, neck, upper back, Bloated and groggy in morning
Still bloated all day after in face and body (regardless of sodium and water manipulation)
Fat loss isn't the same as it used to be ... I have to stick to low cal low carb diet to stay half as lean as I used to be




 
D

Deleted member 121863

Guest
estradiol is what you need to worry about. Low E2 can cause that fatigue, water retention and fat gain (harder to lose fat). Did you have your MCV or MCH checked? Do you give blood regularly since you are on TRT and your hematocrit is upper end to high? Giving blood often (as you should on TRT) can make you low on iron, which will reduce the size of your red blood cells making it less able to carry hemoglobin, possibly making you fatigue faster. What is your blood pressure? Obviously your Arimidex dose is way high, maybe do .25mg 3 days a week.
 

MightyMouse215

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Messages
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I just saw an informative video on this [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_UI3gGfgzw"]Redness and bloated face while on TRT? - YouTube[/ame]
 

ugadawg91

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Messages
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Dropped testosterone to 112MG per week (look at my super high free test level) to drop RBC hemoglobin hematocrit
Added DHEA 25mg and 10mg sublingual pregnenolone
Keeping HCG at 100iu ED
Donating double red blood cells tomorrow!
Will keep thread updated


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
D

Deleted member 121863

Guest
Dropped testosterone to 112MG per week (look at my super high free test level) to drop RBC hemoglobin hematocrit
Added DHEA 25mg and 10mg sublingual pregnenolone
Keeping HCG at 100iu ED
Donating double red blood cells tomorrow!
Will keep thread updated


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Just dropping your trt level down will not drop your RBC, so good job going to donate double red. It`s a weird feeling when it pumps back in extra fluid. Even with reduced dose your body will still be cranking out more RBC than normal, not as fast as if your blasting a gram of test and EQ, but enough that you should probably donate once or twice a year, just monitor it.
 

ugadawg91

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Thanks guys!!!!

Total Estrogen test being high has me wondering - I'm going to test Estrone E1 this week


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

jpkoepse

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Seems like a ton of Arimidex for less than 150mg test a week... I'm guessing you're going for a true replacement dose.. and if that's the case you should hopefully get away with no estrogen control at all... maybe I'm misreading.
 

jpkoepse

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I'd suggest considering subq... and if you're worried about gyno throw in a little Nolva. Arimidex is extreme overkill IMO esp at that dose of test. I've been very sensitive to huge fluctuations in E2 with armidex... getting gyno symptoms, then bumping up dose and seeing e2 was crushed and extremely groggy... but Nolva fixed everything.. just my 2 cents
 

emeric delczeg

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Thanks guys!!!!

Total Estrogen test being high has me wondering - I'm going to test Estrone E1 this week


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Stop the DHEA and pregnenolone. Lower your test injections to 10mg per day for 8 weeks. Start eating 1 to 2 raw egg yolk everyday.
 

Matsuo Munefusa

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Stop the DHEA and pregnenolone. Lower your test injections to 10mg per day for 8 weeks. Start eating 1 to 2 raw egg yolk everyday.
Emeric, is it the cholesterol from the egg yolk the reasoning behind that suggestion? Connected to the drop the DHEA/pregnenolone comment (as in supplement "upstream" of the DHEA/preg pathway instead of themselves)?
 

Matsuo Munefusa

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UGA, you say you are tired and groggy in the morning, red faced, etc. Strikes me as symptoms of high prolactin and there you go with a test 6 days ago of a prolactin level of 11. When I let my prolactin get high (it has always tended naturally and as a longterm side effect of abusing tren/deca in the upper range of normal to above normal) it causes redness in my face if I allow it to increase as a result of some interaction with my upper normal HCT (I have had 49-51 HCT for years now - I love it there as an endurance athlete).

HCT of 50-51 alone I do not get red in my face/neck/shoulders/chest but when prolactin goes up, yes...and blood pressure suffers.

You can control prolactin VERY well with a small daily dosage (morning) of pure L-Dopa. You need to titrate this compound up slowly since everybody reacts differently etc etc but it is very effective in the 100-300mg range (and the dopamine push it provides is very pleasant/mood enhancing). This is how I control prolactin and the best way (after trying prami, caber, bromocriptine, etc).

You shouldn't be aiming at CRUSHING prolactin, but shooting for the lower end of the scale using L-dopa daily....You can get prolactin down to level of 1-5 and will feel MUCH MUCH better....it is a real garbage feeling hormone and doesn't serve a good purpose for an athlete...your IGF levels will probably increase too as a result of the feedback loop between prolactin and GH.

One other thing I find extremely helpful is dandelion leaf tea. I have drank it on/off for years but just rediscovered it recently. I drop about 3lb of water drinking a cup a day and my BP goes down and I feel much less flushed if my HCT is highish. Its a nice natural tool to use with symptoms like yours.

Nowadays what I use to enhance myself is as a result of the mistakes I learned earlier in my hobby enhancing myself :banghead::rolleyes:
 

ugadawg91

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UGA, you say you are tired and groggy in the morning, red faced, etc. Strikes me as symptoms of high prolactin and there you go with a test 6 days ago of a prolactin level of 11. When I let my prolactin get high (it has always tended naturally and as a longterm side effect of abusing tren/deca in the upper range of normal to above normal) it causes redness in my face if I allow it to increase as a result of some interaction with my upper normal HCT (I have had 49-51 HCT for years now - I love it there as an endurance athlete).



HCT of 50-51 alone I do not get red in my face/neck/shoulders/chest but when prolactin goes up, yes...and blood pressure suffers.



You can control prolactin VERY well with a small daily dosage (morning) of pure L-Dopa. You need to titrate this compound up slowly since everybody reacts differently etc etc but it is very effective in the 100-300mg range (and the dopamine push it provides is very pleasant/mood enhancing). This is how I control prolactin and the best way (after trying prami, caber, bromocriptine, etc).



You shouldn't be aiming at CRUSHING prolactin, but shooting for the lower end of the scale using L-dopa daily....You can get prolactin down to level of 1-5 and will feel MUCH MUCH better....it is a real garbage feeling hormone and doesn't serve a good purpose for an athlete...your IGF levels will probably increase too as a result of the feedback loop between prolactin and GH.



One other thing I find extremely helpful is dandelion leaf tea. I have drank it on/off for years but just rediscovered it recently. I drop about 3lb of water drinking a cup a day and my BP goes down and I feel much less flushed if my HCT is highish. Its a nice natural tool to use with symptoms like yours.



Nowadays what I use to enhance myself is as a result of the mistakes I learned earlier in my hobby enhancing myself :banghead::rolleyes:


Man. I also didn't add I have had puffy nipples for over a year. I just ordered L-Dopa - thank you so much. Since it was 'in-range' I didn't even think about it. But wow. I know this is a main issue! Thank you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Kaladryn

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You are massively over-thinking everything and loaded with misinformation.
-You definitely don't want to do HCG every day, 2 times per week maximum.
-Sounds like your diet could be too low in carbs.
-Sounds like you are taking way too many supplements, supplements you don't need aren't healthy.
-I suspect massive overtraining which would lead to decreased cortisol production and inflammation (it would start high and then eventually you get adrenal fatigue and it goes low).
-AST and ALT won't be high 2 days after drinking, it's probably from all those supplements.
-Supplements won't fix your thyroid, eating enough calories, not staying too lean, and not overtraining will.
-gyno is from all the estradiol and HCG, also DHEA is estrogenic.
-E1, E3, and E4 are pointless to measure and mean nothing.
-don't take iron supplements or vitamin C with iron rich meals.
-HCG mimics TSH to some extent.
-Redness is probably more just your natural skin color or blood pressure, it's not a concern, lots of people get very red, get a tan.
-DHEA/Progesterone has nothing to do with anything here.
-As others have said, all your problems are with the E2 levels, and probably all the other crap you are putting in your body ("health" supplements).
-Again you likely have adrenal fatigue, or whatever you want to call it if you don't like that term.
-"bloated" sounds like it could be just fat.
-forget about SHBG that isn't relevent anymore as it is an active transport mechanism not a storage mechanism like once thought.
-on second thought, your thyroid is fine, T3 and T4 are good, forget TSH if those two are high.

tl;dr
REFER TO PHOTOS AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP! I can provide the actual labcorp test results if needed

ATTACHED:
EXCEL COMPARISON CHART OF MY LABS
CORTISOL SALIVA TEST

25 Years Old
5'11" , 180 LB, very lean, I take an entire slew of natural herbs/vitamins/minerals/supplements every monring and night, and eat extremely healthy - my diet is filled with greens, green smoothies, omega 3s, all types of healthy fats and proteins, lower carb diet, ZERO processed food or sweeteners or artificial sweeteners.
TRT for 4 years straight from clinical low testosterone from varicocele

ISSUES: Have never been able to control my redness / bloat / energy level
Recently - low morning cortisol, bloat and grogginess every day mostly in the mornings.
Bloat, grogginess, lack of energy, has been going on for a long time.

JAN 9 2017
TRT 154MG PER WEEK
[22mg injected every morning IM]
NO AI
Resveratrol injected IM at 15mg ED only

APRIL 14TH 2017
TRT 126 MG PER WEEK
[18mg injected ED IM]
.25mg Arimidex ED - pharmacy tabs for 2 months now
100 IU HCG ED for 2 months now

NOTES:
AST AND ALT ARE HIGH FROM DRINKING ALCOHOL 2 NIGHTS BEFORE

I wake up at 6 every morning and run a good sized residential and commercial roofing company.
I take many many supplements to try to remedy the thyroid issue....IE selenium kelp/iodine vitamin D b12/complex curcumin inject zinc L Tyrosine Ashwagandha Copper iron vitamin A .... many many supps...
DIM MADE ME BLOAT SO BAD AND FEEL HORRIBLE
TMG seems to not do anything but I don't have tests to show that
Taking HCG makes me bright red and bloat up badly. I have to inject at night, 100 IU MAXIMUM
Gyno has been on and off for years now ... it got BAD in January - February, now the mass has cleared up mostly but still itches and HURTS.
Low E has me flat feeling and looking, but still watery / puffy as hell.. weird I know
High RBC / Hemoglobin / Hematocrit I think causes my chest / neck / face to be bright red all the time.. in combination with estradiol being out of wack consistently too
I get morning wood even with this low E somehow

SOME FINDINGS:
Lowered my test level, but my test and free test has gone UP from low E which is probably causing lower SHGB) and adding HCG
HCG has not raised my DHEA / Progesterone - but it will leave me bloated as all hell though
My TSH has exploded high to 3.96 ...its been high for over a year now always 2.6+ ..I do not have NEAR the energy I used to have anymore regardless of my estriadiol level !

QUESTIONS
TOTAL E IS HIGH, BUT E2 IS INSANE LOW, ESTRIOL IS LOW ?
Dhea is low, progesterone is low, and pregnenolone is low (is this an irrelevant test?) HCG isn't increasing them... why?
TSH / thyroid tests for the past year are not optimal regardless of E levels
Energy is never the same as it used to be regardless of E2 levels
Red face, chest, neck, upper back, Bloated and groggy in morning
Still bloated all day after in face and body (regardless of sodium and water manipulation)
Fat loss isn't the same as it used to be ... I have to stick to low cal low carb diet to stay half as lean as I used to be




 
Last edited:

ugadawg91

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Messages
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Now on just 100iu HCG ED and .25mg adex ED.. my estradiol is 3.6 with LC/MS test.

I'm lowering test and hcg, and adding DHEA and preg to help boost these low hormone levels, and in turn it will probably increase my estradiol to a healthy level as well. I'll be tested again in a few weeks to see how much it increases. I'll have to play with the dhea preg adex test doses to get the right blood levels / feeling I'm sure

I carb up every week - but carb level daily is probably 180g to 200g

I actually drank the night before, I was mistaken. I will have another panel again this week so we will see how ast and alt are.

When I say redness, it's the top of upper chest and outside of neck on each side up to my ears, and a red toned face.

Donated whole blood, they wouldn't let me give double red. Redness isn't affected.

Currently:
Estradiol is way too low, dhea is low, prolactin is too high (getting re-tested this week on empty stomach etc to make sure of this). These are what I will be focusing on and be re-tested in 3 weeks and monitor myself


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Kaladryn

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DHEA is a precursor for testosterone, so when you take test, your DHEA levels drop because you don't need as much, this happens to most people on TRT, you end up with low normal DHEA. Supplement DHEA won't help UNLESS your estradiol is too low, then it will improve your sex drive, a better fix would be to bring up your estradiol by lowering the dosage of your AI. It looks to me like you are just very sensitive to AIs.

Here is how AIs work, increasing the dosage gives you exponentially decreasing results. 1mg/day isn't twice as effective as .5mg per day, more like 10% more effective.

If you start doing .25mg every 3 days, your E2 level won't go 3x.

.25mg/day is a lot, good for 500mg test/week for some people, or even too much for some people who are sensitive to them.

I highly recommend .25mg twice per week MAXIMUM.

You can't do HCG every day, it has a longish halflife and needs time to clear the body or it will over stimulate the leydig cells and desensitize you to the effects. It is also immunosuppressive.
 

ugadawg91

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Added 2 raw eggs to green smoothie every day like Emeric said to do - my HDL and LDL are much better but then again, it probably is from dropping arimidex and raising estrogen.

Started preg but I dropped it a month later for bloat reasons.

Started DHEA and lowered HCG dose. Feel more alive emotionally of course.

Donated blood right after this test.

I inject in my quads Test C for a couple years now. After taking notes daily, I have realized that each day after I work out my legs, my redness, bloat, and irritability increase. So stimulating the injected muscle obviously releases some of the testosterone into blood stream faster in these knotted areas. Hmm
 

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