Water retention cause

[Late_Starter]

So I get no water retention from IGF1-LR3

But with Ipaomrellin/CJC combo I get lots.

What is the cause:
a) Is it the HGH that's released itself; or
b) Is it the Ipamorellin or CJC?

It can't be the IGF that comes from the GH...

What's else do you get from GH that IGF doesn't give?
i.e. am I missing out on any benefits if I just switch long term to IGF instead of GHRH/GHRP?

 

[BigTex]

So I get no water retention from IGF1-LR3

But with Ipaomrellin/CJC combo I get lots.

What is the cause:
a) Is it the HGH that's released itself; or
b) Is it the Ipamorellin or CJC?

It can't be the IGF that comes from the GH...

What's else do you get from GH that IGF doesn't give?
i.e. am I missing out on any benefits if I just switch long term to IGF instead of GHRH/GHRP?

Both Ipamorelin and CJC cause growth hormone levels to increase. The side effect of high growth hormone levels is fluid retention and increased blood sugar. The human growth hormone side effect of fluid retention can lead to carpal tunnel syndrome and hypertension. The levels of these side effects are dose dependent. So the higher your raise growth hormone levels the worse the side effect.

So which is better? As you know HGH causes the liver to produce IGF-1. The more HGH in the body the higher the IGF-1 levels. Taking IGF-1 does the same thing. The only difference found it IGF-1 does not seem to cause the body to retain fluids. My recommendation would to take both but if your wallet doesn't allow the expense you have to fine out which gives you the most bang for the buck. HGH doesn't directly cause growth, IGF-1 does.

Typical IGF-1 Long R3 - $65/1mg vial using a 20mcg dose =50 doses/vial = $1.30/dose
Typical 10iu HGH - $20/10iu vial20 using 4iu doses = 2.5 doses/vial = $8/dose


So IGF-1 typically costs $1.30/dose
HGH typically coast $8/dose

If you are wanting to save money the IGF-1 is the way to go. If you want to have the benefits of IGF-1 with HGH, you might consider using MK-677 instead of HGH. Of even stick with the CJC w/DAC/Ipa. However the addition of the latter will cause water retention. I have managed to keep the water retention down by taking a diuretic but the carpal tunnel pain and joint stiffness is still there.

 

[lilgumby]

Interesting, I am on a contest rebound and am bloated and hell feeling and holding a ton of water. I know my shit meals have a lot to do with it but I added in mk677 post show and hgh. I had a bunch left over from other cycles and thought I'd use it up. I thought at first it was berberine but stopped it and still bloated. Am running sdrol also and stopped it to see and still bloated. Didn't even think that mk or hgh could be the cause

Both Ipamorelin and CJC cause growth hormone levels to increase.


The side effect of high growth hormone levels is fluid retention and increased blood sugar. The human growth hormone side effect of fluid retention can lead to carpal tunnel syndrome and hypertension. The levels of these side effects are dose dependent. So the higher your raise growth hormone levels the worse the side effect.

So which is better? As you know HGH causes the liver to produce IGF-1. The more HGH in the body the higher the IGF-1 levels. Taking IGF-1 does the same thing. The only difference found it IGF-1 does not seem to cause the body to retain fluids. My recommendation would to take both but if your wallet doesn't allow the expense you have to fine out which gives you the most bang for the buck. HGH doesn't directly cause growth, IGF-1 does.

Typical IGF-1 Long R3 - $65/1mg vial using a 20mcg dose =50 doses/vial = $1.30/dose
Typical 10iu HGH - $20/10iu vial20 using 4iu doses = 2.5 doses/vial = $8/dose


So IGF-1 typically costs $1.30/dose
HGH typically coast $8/dose

If you are wanting to save money the IGF-1 is the way to go. If you want to have the benefits of IGF-1 with HGH, you might consider using MK-677 instead of HGH. Of even stick with the CJC w/DAC/Ipa. However the addition of the latter will cause water retention. I have managed to keep the water retention down by taking a diuretic but the carpal tunnel pain and joint stiffness is still there.

 

[BigTex]

Interesting, I am on a contest rebound and am bloated and hell feeling and holding a ton of water. I know my shit meals have a lot to do with it but I added in mk677 post show and hgh. I had a bunch left over from other cycles and thought I'd use it up. I thought at first it was berberine but stopped it and still bloated. Am running sdrol also and stopped it to see and still bloated. Didn't even think that mk or hgh could be the cause

Since you are post-show, the bloating doesn't really matter that much unless you just can't handle it. I know I can't.

As we know increases aldosterone promotes sodium and water retention. High levels of GH are suspected at increasing aldosterone. Angiotensin II receptor blockers inhibiting the production of aldosterone. Thus, ARBs indirectly inhibit fluid volume increases that result from the actions of aldosterone.

Examples of angiotensin II receptor blockers include:

* Azilsartan (Edarbi)
* Candesartan (Atacand)
* Eprosartan
* Irbesartan (Avapro)
* Losartan (Cozaar)
* Olmesartan (Benicar)
* Telmisartan (Micardis)
* Valsartan (Diovan)


I know a lot of guys who take telmisartan and have gotten great results. I personally use olmesartan.

 

[lilgumby]

thanks for the information . the bloating just makes me feel miserable . i know its in my head and will go away but definitely not fun. ill do some reading on olmesartan and see if i can get a hold of some relatively quick

Since you are post-show, the bloating doesn't really matter that much unless you just can't handle it. I know I can't.

As we know increases aldosterone promotes sodium and water retention. High levels of GH are suspected at increasing aldosterone. Angiotensin II receptor blockers inhibiting the production of aldosterone. Thus, ARBs indirectly inhibit fluid volume increases that result from the actions of aldosterone.

Examples of angiotensin II receptor blockers include:

* Azilsartan (Edarbi)
* Candesartan (Atacand)
* Eprosartan
* Irbesartan (Avapro)
* Losartan (Cozaar)
* Olmesartan (Benicar)
* Telmisartan (Micardis)
* Valsartan (Diovan)


I know a lot of guys who take telmisartan and have gotten great results. I personally use olmesartan.

 

[BigTex]

Welcome! Good luck with it.

 

[Late_Starter]

Both Ipamorelin and CJC cause growth hormone levels to increase. The side effect of high growth hormone levels is fluid retention and increased blood sugar. The human growth hormone side effect of fluid retention can lead to carpal tunnel syndrome and hypertension. The levels of these side effects are dose dependent. So the higher your raise growth hormone levels the worse the side effect.

So which is better? As you know HGH causes the liver to produce IGF-1. The more HGH in the body the higher the IGF-1 levels. Taking IGF-1 does the same thing. The only difference found it IGF-1 does not seem to cause the body to retain fluids. My recommendation would to take both but if your wallet doesn't allow the expense you have to fine out which gives you the most bang for the buck. HGH doesn't directly cause growth, IGF-1 does.

Typical IGF-1 Long R3 - $65/1mg vial using a 20mcg dose =50 doses/vial = $1.30/dose
Typical 10iu HGH - $20/10iu vial20 using 4iu doses = 2.5 doses/vial = $8/dose


So IGF-1 typically costs $1.30/dose
HGH typically coast $8/dose

If you are wanting to save money the IGF-1 is the way to go. If you want to have the benefits of IGF-1 with HGH, you might consider using MK-677 instead of HGH. Of even stick with the CJC w/DAC/Ipa. However the addition of the latter will cause water retention. I have managed to keep the water retention down by taking a diuretic but the carpal tunnel pain and joint stiffness is still there.

Thanks, so it's the HGH itself that causes it - not the Ghrelin or GHRP/GHRH..

So going to real HGH instead of Peptide won't help it either..

Probably will stick with IGF then, excluding non-training days then I'll use the GHRP/GHRH low dose only..

MK677 I didn't want because of the pituitary bleed effect instead of pulses, and don't want to use anything Oral because my liver markers are high.

 

[BigTex]

Thanks, so it's the HGH itself that causes it - not the Ghrelin or GHRP/GHRH..

So going to real HGH instead of Peptide won't help it either..

Probably will stick with IGF then, excluding non-training days then I'll use the GHRP/GHRH low dose only..

MK677 I didn't want because of the pituitary bleed effect instead of pulses, and don't want to use anything Oral because my liver markers are high.

No, high growth hormone levels are what causes the water retention. GHRP/GHRH will both cause high growth hormone levels. HGH will definitely cause it as will MK677. Also, MK677 does not cause a GH bleed it causes multiple pulsing over a 24 hour period through Ghrelin. MK677 has not been show to cause high liver markers. It has been show to be completely safe. But water retention will be pretty good.ALso that bleed effect that CJC w/DAC has is not such a bad thing as it keeps blood GH levels high much as HGH will. CJC w/DAC is being used very successfully but you need 1-2mg/wk with a GHRP.

 

[Late_Starter]

Awesome that's great info thanks I didnt know mk677 was like that. Only other problem I have is that my pharmacy source doesn't have it. The only oral stuff they do is ghrp drops and hcg drops.. I can get it from a supplement company though but it's a gamble on quality. Got alot of IGF lr3 left so will continue and maybe try the mk677 in January. Looking to give MGF a go as well then.

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[Late_Starter]

One other question - does mk677 increase prolactin at all? What about hunger issues? I can't increase calories a anymore..

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[sciroxx-lab]

GH which is floating around the circulation will always cause water retention which leads to hypertension to some degree, simply part of the anabolic effect of GH is made through retention of minerals, such as sodium, potassium, calcium and magnesium. So no matter if MK or exogenous GH caused the GH increase same effect will be carried.
Based on my experience a moderate divided dosages of exogenous GH will cause the modest side effects, and actually MK is less tolerated.

It's advised to combine IGF1 with the GH indeed, as they have a distinct synergistic effect, so it enable to use more moderate GH dosages, and as known the IGF1 counter balance the diabetic effect of GH, which also leads to hypertension and other health issues and lowers the optimal anabolic effect of it

 

[Late_Starter]

GH which is floating around the circulation will always cause water retention which leads to hypertension to some degree, simply part of the anabolic effect of GH is made through retention of minerals, such as sodium, potassium, calcium and magnesium. So no matter if MK or exogenous GH caused the GH increase same effect will be carried.
Based on my experience a moderate divided dosages of exogenous GH will cause the modest side effects, and actually MK is less tolerated.

It's advised to combine IGF1 with the GH indeed, as they have a distinct synergistic effect, so it enable to use more moderate GH dosages, and as known the IGF1 counter balance the diabetic effect of GH, which also leads to hypertension and other health issues and lowers the optimal anabolic effect of it

Interesting so I would get benefit from running both at same time.. I had thought using my ghrp/ghrh during igf would be a waste.

Since igf has a negative feedback mechanism on the pituitary, wouldn't having igf in the system prevent ghrp/ghrh from working?
Maybe one has to have real HGH to be able to use both at the same time?

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[sciroxx-lab]

I also speculated that using releasing peptides may be somewhat a waste with IGF as the IGF will suppress GH secretion directly by the piturity through Somatostatin , but it still need to be proven, this is a valid speculation indeed.

Based on my experience GH and IGF1 combo is the most effective both for short and long run, but of course more expensive.

 

[BigTex]

One other question - does mk677 increase prolactin at all? What about hunger issues? I can't increase calories a anymore..

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From the studies I have read MK677 cause prolactin and cortisol to rise to a high normal value for 7 day. After 7 days of use both return to baseline. As for hunger. MK677 is a selective agonist of the ghrelin receptor much the same as GHRO's. That simply meaning that MK677 binds to a ghrelin receptor and activates the receptor to produce a biological response....which in this case is ghrelin. Rises in ghrelin cause hunger and later on GH pulses. Some people I know get very hungry. For some reason I have never gotten hungry on it or any of the GHRPs.

 

[Late_Starter]

Thanks, yeah I have 500 prolactin already so don't want to increase it further. My Mrs likes regular action, she can't wait 2 days between lol. Also I have trouble keeping within my set calories, the hunger will fatten me for sure. Will stick with ipamorelin + CJC non-DAC as it doesn't have these sides. And the igf lr3 of course

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[Thebigone]

Interesting so I would get benefit from running both at same time.. I had thought using my ghrp/ghrh during igf would be a waste.

Since igf has a negative feedback mechanism on the pituitary, wouldn't having igf in the system prevent ghrp/ghrh from working?
Maybe one has to have real HGH to be able to use both at the same time?

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Bump^^^

 

[Late_Starter]

Bump^^^

I don't think anyone knows for sure.

I can tell you something though I don't know how much it means:

If it's the next evening after lr3, I use my ipam+CJC. I still feel the slight flushing and slight stomach rumbling afterwards. That means at least it's into my system, but whether GH releases from that or not I don't know for sure.

Lr3 with a half life of 20 hours should still have at least 25% maybe even 50% in my system the next evening and I still feel something.

Also my off days usage of iPam+CJC I do get the water retention if 2 days in a row..so something is happening at least on the 2nd day.

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