Water retention on GH

[Qwert]

What is the cause of water retention for GH users? Whether it's 2 ius or 20 ius? ... What hormone or enzyme or other mechanism is causing such dramatic water retention in some people and not in others?

Short of reducing the GH dosage, what is the best way to counter the edema?

 

[grim]

bump

 

[mixxin]

I saw this on another site. I might try administering it in the evening to see if their conclusion is correct:



Growth Hormone and Prolactin Action in a Teleost Anabas testudineus(Bloch): Effect of the Time of Administration
Authors: Leena S.; Oommen O.V.

Circadian rhythms play a very important role on metabolic process and have considerable effects on growth, especially in ectotherms. Like variation in hormone levels, the sensitivity of target cells may show diurnal or seasonal fluctuations. The aim of this study was to compare the effects of morning versus evening injections of growth hormone and prolactin on malic enzyme, glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase, isocitrate dehydrogenase, aspartate aminotransferase, alanine aminotransferase and Na + ,K + -ATPase in a teleost Anabas testudineus . Activities of malic enzyme, glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase and isocitrate dehydrogenase of the two control groups themselves differ significantly at morning and evening. Early morning administration of growth hormone increases malic enzyme, glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase and isocitrate dehydrogenase activities while evening administration of growth hormone does not effect these enzymes. Transaminase activities were stimulated by morning and evening administration of GH and PRL. Na + ,K + -ATPase activity was stimulated by morning administration and inhibited by evening treatment of both hormones. The results reveal that a given hormone may provide a different message to the target tissues at different periods of the day.

 

[fred9]

yeah i found that article while searching more bout sleep probs while on hgh...dunno if it really works

 

[Qwert]

Obviously GH increases a certain hormone that causes edema. My guess would be aldosterone. In which case, aldactone would help. The prolactin problem can be fixed with dostinex, but since I'm taking plenty of dostinex & still having major hand aches, my guess is that it's the edema putting pressure on the nerves & causing the aches. I'm taking 20mg lasix daily & that's not really helping too much.

 

[fred9]

Obviously GH increases a certain hormone that causes edema. My guess would be aldosterone. In which case, aldactone would help. The prolactin problem can be fixed with dostinex, but since I'm taking plenty of dostinex & still having major hand aches, my guess is that it's the edema putting pressure on the nerves & causing the aches. I'm taking 20mg lasix daily & that's not really helping too much.

posted also a while ago this one...could explain why lasix isnt really helping:

hey all,
I first always thought that an increase in ADH gives me the HGH-bloat. The following study comes to the conclusion that HGH doesnt increase ADH(1), but caused by an activation of the renin-angiotensin system.

exoGH increases somatostatin, the kidney got side specific receptors for somatostatin which may activate the renin-angiotensin system(2). This may cause the HGH bloat and can be inhibited by an ace-inhibitor.

1- "The antinatriuretic action of biosynthetic human growth hormone in man involves activation of the renin-angiotensin system.
Garvan Institute of Medical Research, St. Vincents Hospital, Darlinghurst, Sydney, Australia.

Previous studies using human pituitary extracts have not resolved whether the sodium retaining effects of human growth hormone (hGH) are mediated in part by increased aldosterone secretion. We have studied the effects of an authentic biosynthetic GH (bio-hGH) preparation on sodium metabolism and on the activity of the renin-angiotensin system. Six young men were administered this preparation at 0.2 U/kg/d subcutaneously for five consecutive days. Twenty-four-hour urine collections were obtained for measurement of sodium excretion and osmolality and blood collected for quantitating changes in sodium, osmolality, plasma renin activity (PRA), aldosterone, and arginine vasopressin (AVP) concentrations. Bio-hGH administration resulted in a fall in 24-hour urinary sodium excretion (197 +/- 38 to 42 +/- 20 mmol, mean +/- SD, P less than .005), a reduction in urine volume (1,652 +/- 182 to 848 +/- 348 mL, P less than .05) but not osmolality. PRA increased significantly from 1,118 +/- 73 to 3,608 +/- 1,841 fmol angiotensin 1 L/s (P less than .005), which was associated with a sevenfold increase in plasma aldosterone concentration (52 +/- 12 to 402 +/- 99 pg/mL, P less than .001). Plasma osmolality and AVP concentrations did not change significantly. The results show that Bio-GH-induced retention of sodium involves the activation of the renin-angiotensin system. This mechanism may explain in part the occurrence of plasma volume expansion and hypertension in acr*****ly and suggests a risk of fluid retention and possibly hypertension in subjects receiving supraphysiological doses of bio-hGH for treatment of short stature.
"

2-

 

[mixxin]

Dr Speer's theory is that it is caused by ADH (antidiuretic hormone). See excerpt below, taken from **broken link removed**

Growth hormone, however, causes A.D.H. (Anti-Diuretic Hormone) to go up. ADH is a very potent coronary constrictor which also constricts veins. It is produced starting in the hypothalamus. The nerve endings of certain neurons in the hypothalamus reach into the posterior pituitary, and ADH and oxicitocin come from the posterior pituitary. ADH can go up to 20 times normal levels with fear, or anger, and stress. This can cause coronary constriction within minutes, and this can cause a massive heart attack.

Growth hormone makes ADH go up, and as a direct effect of this, water retention goes up, which causes higher blood pressure. ADH is dose dependent of GH, which is why you have to drop the dose if blood pressure goes up too high, until your circulatory system adjusts to handle it. This is the only bad side effect of an otherwise very good dose of growth hormone.

"Clonidine" is the safest high blood pressure medicine. It causes no side effects, and no impotency of any kind. It is indicated if you have high blood pressure due to ADH.

 

[trapz]

ive noticed that when im on GH, and especially if i am on other drugs that bloat me or over a certain level of drugs like test..... when i dont eat clean and eat alot of shitty processed carbs and sodium laden meals, i bloat up worse than being on just gear or totally off.

but when im eating very clean even while bulking on a lean bulk i get the gains i want as well as the leanness from the GH.

 

[Qwert]

Dr Speer's theory is that it is caused by ADH (antidiuretic hormone). See excerpt below, taken from **broken link removed**

Growth hormone, however, causes A.D.H. (Anti-Diuretic Hormone) to go up. ADH is a very potent coronary constrictor which also constricts veins. It is produced starting in the hypothalamus. The nerve endings of certain neurons in the hypothalamus reach into the posterior pituitary, and ADH and oxicitocin come from the posterior pituitary. ADH can go up to 20 times normal levels with fear, or anger, and stress. This can cause coronary constriction within minutes, and this can cause a massive heart attack.

Growth hormone makes ADH go up, and as a direct effect of this, water retention goes up, which causes higher blood pressure. ADH is dose dependent of GH, which is why you have to drop the dose if blood pressure goes up too high, until your circulatory system adjusts to handle it. This is the only bad side effect of an otherwise very good dose of growth hormone.

"Clonidine" is the safest high blood pressure medicine. It causes no side effects, and no impotency of any kind. It is indicated if you have high blood pressure due to ADH.

The thing is, this person recommends clondine because he thinks it's the safest diuretic. He only seems to like clondine because it's 1. a diuretic & 2. safe. This is his way of combating edema due to high ADH. However, I take lasix, which is way more powerful & still have edema hand numbness problems. I can't see clondine working too well, if all he uses it for is to drop water. To me, a drug that dilates blood vessels is the one to take. Maybe even natural supps like niacin or cayenne pepper extract. Even aldactone makes more sense since it lowers aldosterone & thus reduces edema. There HAS to be something to take to lower the hand aches/numbness. At 10iu, my hands have no feeling in them within a week. I can't even grab the bar without pain by wek 3. Pros routinely take 15-30iu a day & they seem ok. Someone help!!!!!!

 

[sammarbella]

I've success controling HGH bloat (10 I.U. PWO, 5 I.U. upon raising on non-training days...) using catapres at bedtime to control ADH and Dostinex 2 times per week to control Prolactin.

BP comes back to normal range, gyno is under control.

 

[Qwert]

I've success controling HGH bloat (10 I.U. PWO, 5 I.U. upon raising on non-training days...) using catapres at bedtime to control ADH and Dostinex 2 times per week to control Prolactin.

BP comes back to normal range, gyno is under control.

I already take dostinex at 1/2 tab 3 times a week & take 20mg lasix a day upon waking & still I get massive edema & hand numbness. This is due to the compressing of the blood vessels, so I need something to keep them from constricting & to keep them dialated.

 

[Dad]

This is the reply to yuor repeat post of this topic on the Main Forum:

Yuo don't want a drug that dilates vessels. IF yuo could control such a thing, yuo would set up a chain reaction to undo it almost immediately.

Dilated vessles mean that blood returning to the heart per unit time is reduced. THus, cardiac output is reduced. The body reads this as hypovolemia (the same thing that happens with pronounced blood loss), so the kidneys orchestrate mechanisms to retain sodium, vasocontrict, and speed heart rate, all in an effort to bring up cardiac output. This is why the claims made by manufacturers of NO products are bogus.

Why not just get off the GH? Yuo're taking an over-rated, expensive hormone, and using a harsh, dangerous diuretic to try and deal with the sides. For what? Are yuo a competing pro who livelihood depends on this?