Why cant your bodies end up developin antibodies to test??

[bhumik]

So i am sitting here studying for my immunology final tomorrow and I m wondering why dont our bodies end up making antibodies to exogenous testosterone, and more so other AAS that we dont produce like Equipoise, and tren. ??
and if so wouldnt that eliminate their effect..

 

[Dad]

Thee are no antigen markers on testosterone for APCs (antigen presenting cells) to identify, and thus present for the immune sytem to deal with. Testosterone is a derivative of cholesterol.

 

[bhumik]

Then how bout exogenous Growth hormone, I know the sequence is a little different then our own bodies GH.

 

[bhumik]

Thee are no antigen markers on testosterone for APCs (antigen presenting cells) to identify, and thus present for the immune sytem to deal with. Testosterone is a derivative of cholesterol.

What about EQ? and what about the esters such as prop and enanthate. Those are foreign to our body. How come they cant act as markers?
(at first i thought they were not protein, or lipid or poly sacherride or such) but thats not the case.

 

[Dad]

Exactly. GH is a peptide (protein chain), so, depending upon whether this peptide is recognised as foreign, as was often the case with the old Acellicrin and GH extracted from cadaver pituitary glands, there may be an immune reaction.

Don't know enough about EQ to comment, but tests are all cholesterol derivatives, whether esterified or not.

 

[vadim_b1]

Then how bout exogenous Growth hormone, I know the sequence is a little different then our own bodies GH.

That only applies to 192 amino acid GH, the 191 aa is absolutely identical to natural GH. Therefore your body would never treat exogenous 191aa HGH differently than its own.

 

[KillerStack]

That only applies to 192 amino acid GH, the 191 aa is absolutely identical to natural GH. Therefore your body would never treat exogenous 191aa HGH differently than its own.

I'm pretty sure antibodies can develop to 191AA GH. That's what the PDR and package leaflets say. Same for bio-identical insulin. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[vadim_b1]

Lets use some logic here. For your body to recognize something as foreign, it must in some way be different than what you already have. This is why if you have blood type B for instance, and put blood type A in yourself, an immune reaction will develop, and the cells of type A will be rejected. Why? Because even though the cells are identical, they are not COMPLETELY identical, and this is how your body recognizes them as foreign.
Now, how can your body reject something that in EVERY WAY IS COMPLETELY IDENTICAL to what you have? It has NO WAY to determine it, there is NO DIFFERENCE between 191aa exogenous HGH and your own.
What might happen, and it sometimes does with low purity generic HGH, there are byproducts present, since synthetic HGH is produced via bacterial synthesis.
And this is what causes antibody formation, NOT the hgh itself.

 

[KillerStack]

Lets use some logic here. For your body to recognize something as foreign, it must in some way be different than what you already have. This is why if you have blood type B for instance, and put blood type A in yourself, an immune reaction will develop, and the cells of type A will be rejected. Why? Because even though the cells are identical, they are not COMPLETELY identical, and this is how your body recognizes them as foreign.
Now, how can your body reject something that in EVERY WAY IS COMPLETELY IDENTICAL to what you have? It has NO WAY to determine it, there is NO DIFFERENCE between 191aa exogenous HGH and your own.
What might happen, and it sometimes does with low purity generic HGH, there are byproducts present, since synthetic HGH is produced via bacterial synthesis.
And this is what causes antibody formation, NOT the hgh itself.

Well, this is what it usually says:

As with all protein drugs, a small number of patients may develop antibodies to the protein. Growth hormone antibody with binding lower than 2 mg/L has not been associated with growth attenuation. In some cases when binding capacity is
>2 mg/L, interference with growth response has been observed.

In 419 pediatric patients evaluated in clinical studies with GENOTROPIN Lyophilized Powder, 244 had been treated previously with GENOTROPIN or other growth hormone preparations and 175 had received no previous growth hormone therapy. Antibodies to growth hormone (anti-hGH antibodies) were present in six previously treated patients at baseline. Three of the six became negative for anti-hGH antibodies during 6 to 12 months of treatment with GENOTROPIN. Of the remaining 413 patients, eight (1.9%) developed detectable anti-hGH antibodies during treatment with GENOTROPIN; none had an antibody binding capacity >2 mg/L. There was no evidence that the growth response to GENOTROPIN was affected in these antibody-positive patients.

Preparations of GENOTROPIN contain a small amount of periplasmic Escherichia coli peptides (PECP). Anti-PECP antibodies are found in a small number of patients treated with GENOTROPIN, but these appear to be of no clinical significance.

And:

Antibody Production — In large clinical trials, antibodies that cross-react with human insulin and insulin lispro were observed in both Humulin R- and Humalog-treatment groups. As expected, the largest increase in the antibody levels during the 12-month clinical trials was observed with patients new to insulin therapy.

And:

The most common form of insulin resistance is immune-mediated. Everyone
taking injected insulin develops IgG antibodies to insulin. In most,
the antibody levels are low. In about 1 in 1000, the levels are much
higher, from 5 to over 1000 times higher than usual. In Davidson's
words:

The reason for this markedly enhanced response and the
subsequent decline to normal levels is completely unknown.

The antibodies bind to, and neutralize, the insulin.

At one time it was thought that the antibodies resulted from impurities
in the insulin preparations, and that using highly purified
preparations would avoid the problem. This has proven not to be the
case; purified insulin helps but usually does not resolve the problem,
[though it seems to be worth trying].

Also, switching to a different insulin does not help, as the antibodies
bind to beef, pork and human insulin. They may bind to one more than
the others, but the titers of antibody are so high as to neutralize
virtually all of any of the insulins.

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/diabetes/faq/part3/section-24.html

 

[STEEDA69]

Lets use some logic here. For your body to recognize something as foreign, it must in some way be different than what you already have. This is why if you have blood type B for instance, and put blood type A in yourself, an immune reaction will develop, and the cells of type A will be rejected. Why? Because even though the cells are identical, they are not COMPLETELY identical, and this is how your body recognizes them as foreign.Now, how can your body reject something that in EVERY WAY IS COMPLETELY IDENTICAL to what you have? It has NO WAY to determine it, there is NO DIFFERENCE between 191aa exogenous HGH and your own.What might happen, and it sometimes does with low purity generic HGH, there are byproducts present, since synthetic HGH is produced via bacterial synthesis.And this is what causes antibody formation, NOT the hgh itself.

Even though "they" may contain the correct 191 aa sequencing, they may also contain contamination masses (in some preparations) and may subsequently illicit an "immune" response!

SD~

 

[vadim_b1]

Even though "they" may contain the correct 191 aa sequencing, they may also contain contamination masses (in some preparations) and may subsequently illicit an "immune" response!

SD~

Read the last sentence in my post.

@killerstack, very interesting, i still dont buy it though, simply because antibodies formed to insulin would KILL you!

 

[bhumik]

Thee are no antigen markers on testosterone for APCs (antigen presenting cells) to identify, and thus present for the immune sytem to deal with. Testosterone is a derivative of cholesterol.

hi dad.
sorry to bump back an old thread but look here

**broken link removed**

i found several other products with testosterone antibody Mouse anitbody testosterone, sheep anitbody testosterone etc. . Hows that possible. I am sure the testosterone in rabbit is the same as that in human then y do theseantibodies develop??

and also there has to be an APC marker for antibodies to develop know?