winstrol and kidneys

masswithclass · Sep 2, 2004

I know winstrol is hard on the liver run for long periods, but what about the kidney's? Is it toxic to the kidneys?

Ethan James · Sep 2, 2004

I dont' think so... I think the only two that are hard on kidneys is trenbolone and oxymetholone...

Maverick · Sep 2, 2004

Mass with class is correct. Winstrol as far as my knowlegde goes as never shown an affinity to raise kidney toixicity levels. However oral winstrol tabs have shown to raise liver toixicity levels but that isn't the case of this thread.

Maverick

diskey · Sep 2, 2004

I do think that you kidneys will be stressed with larger amounts of an 17aa oral, 100mg+ perhaps. When I used accutane which is supposed to only stress the liver, I got higher kidney values too. The liver and kidneys works quite similar and probably does the liver transfers some of the detox work from orals to the kidneys when it is overloaded.

I like to take cranberry juice and milk thistle all year round, none of these costs much and helps keep your kidneys and liver helathy, which is some of the organs which are most affected from steroids in general and high protein amounts.

xcelbeyond · Sep 2, 2004

diskey said:
I like to take cranberry juice and milk thistle all year round, none of these costs much and helps keep your kidneys and liver helathy, which is some of the organs which are most affected from steroids in general and high protein amounts.

GOOD cranberry extract capsules ARE NOT cheap.

Don't fool yourself by thinking that cranberry is a good "preventative" for anything. It does help if you have a "kidney infection," which women can get frequently (not much in men). If you know of studies that back why your using it as a preventative please post them.

This issue was discussed ad-nauseum at the ol' Fina Board (RIP).

diskey · Sep 3, 2004

well I ment pure cranberry juice, costs about 10$ and is available at helth stores. I buy a litre and it lasts for a month if you use 0,33dl each day - about 3000mg which would be about 6 normal capsules.

Another opinion is to buy cranbery drink at the supermarked which at my mall contains about 30% pure juice and costs about 3$

Here is a study on kidney stone prevention - see for yourself

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xcelbeyond · Sep 3, 2004

diskey said:
well I ment pure cranberry juice, costs about 10$ and is available at helth stores. I buy a litre and it lasts for a month if you use 0,33dl each day - about 3000mg which would be about 6 normal capsules.

Another opinion is to buy cranbery drink at the supermarked which at my mall contains about 30% pure juice and costs about 3$

Here is a study on kidney stone prevention - see for yourself
**broken link removed**

I read the article and it didn't change my point. The article didn't say the study was conculsive and did validate the infection issue I stated.

How many times have you heard anyone say they got kidney stones because of "steroids"?!? Isn't "calium intake" (lack thereof) the major source of kidney stones - just the opposite of you get them from drinking milk?

I'm not saying it's "bad" for you. I'm just satyng don't think that it's protecting your kidneys from potential damage by steroid use by using cranberry.

And the juice is generally always laden with Fructose!!!

diskey · Sep 3, 2004

Cranberry juice has been used for ages to help against kidney problems in general, and what do you mean with an infection really? It's not an issue because you have written "infection" two times in this thread. If you think of a bacterial infection, then yes cranberry would help. You asked for proof that cranberry could be used preventive, and the article I gave you says just that. And, yes again cranberry does NOT only help agains "kidney infections", since for example kidney stones are not an infection really. It even states that cranberry consumption altered three main urinary risk factors, which further could lead to kidney failure.

And you think the fructose from 0,33dl cranberry juice each day would give anyone problems if taken am or pwo?, thats ridiculus -it would actually be 4,29g fructose in each serving.

There is no common kidney disease steroid users is risky to get. The problem is that steroids(specially orals) stresses the kidneys so they become overworked. And when the kidneys are very stressed you could get all kind of syndroms since the kidneys can't handle detoxification of many sorts of fluids. Some bb's have gotten kidney cancer from aas, and if you look up on people who have transplanted one of their kidneys becuase of cancer -they use cranberry preventive. Cranberry would help you with keeping your kidneys healthy in general.

Articles on kidney problems prevention with cranberry:

**broken link removed**

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here's an article mentioning kidneys and steroids:

**broken link removed**

xcelbeyond · Sep 3, 2004

I don't mind debating this topic

Those articles you posted were not medical studies yet extracted info from studies. I've seen many studies where I interpret the study differently than others.

Point that each makes is cranberry is GOOD for preventing and curing kidney and urinary tract infection. I have yet to see ANY study that says AAS causes kidney or urinary tract infections, or kidney stones. So unless you can find a study that supports this, I'm really not interested in debating this issue.

The other cranberry benefit appears to be as an antioxidant and is purported to prevent cancer - which all antioxidants do! I would argue that blueberries are a MUCH better antioxidant than cranberries. AND - there are a multitude of various thing we injest that are antioxidants - so most bodybuilders are not deficient in this are. And - I'm not sure other medical anecdotal heresay that AAS "causes" cancer. Now if one is prone or genetically prone to: heart or arterie disease, cancer, etc - AAS "may" speed up that process - there really is nothing conclusive to any of this.

By the way, one of those articles specifically states not to take cranberry with sugars!

diskey · Sep 4, 2004

I don't want to use any more time on this silly discussion just because you obviously are very afraid to loose face on this board.

I'm still taking my cranberry juice, and I'm sure it will prevent problems. Cranbery is proven to prevent bacterial infections in kidneys and the urine tract, -which probably is an issue with steroid use.

I don't know what to tell you to convince you but here is one study I did myself. I had 5 bloodtest done while I used accutane for four months (3 regular + 2 extra testes I did myself because I used aas besides). After test 2 I had elevated kidney values with only accu. I then started prop + oral winny for 5 weeks and loaded up with milkthistle and cranberry juice. A did another bloodtest after 4 weeks with the aas + the same dose with accu as before and my values were normal.

I'm not going to write anything more on this thread.
No hard feelings xcel. Peace

xcelbeyond · Sep 4, 2004

No hard feelings here.

I used to be of the same opinion until this was debated on at least 3 pages at the ol' Fina Board - this was back when if you didn't post the medical study to back your claims it was refuted pretty heavily.

BigBoyJ · Sep 4, 2004

All I know is that after a few weeks, orals give me the runs. That's all the science I need.

Snarf · Sep 4, 2004

Cranberry juice = good for kidney bacterial infections, prevention of treatment of kidney stones and may improve some renal function values

However, it won't do a damn thing for drug induced hepatic toxicity or renal insufficiency.

The same way milk thistle or any other wonder herb won't do a damn thing if your liver has a drug induced hepatotoxic reaction.

Danielvot · Aug 1, 2014

gtj220 · Aug 1, 2014

steroids do damage kidneys, i know first hand....not gonna write a whole book here but remember kidneys dont heal, when a nephron is dead thats it, doenst repair like the liver, keep blood pressure in check and get labs done on a routine basis....BUN and Creatine,,,,and very important PROTIEN URINE levels.....the should be NO protien in your urine, if you do then you are damaging and scarring your nephrons....trust me on this ...im doing well but will be on very expensive meds for the rest of my life.....a damn site better than diaysis.....so get checked no real symptoms of kidney failure utill your down to under 30% capacity

mewalrus · Aug 1, 2014

Do you need to get a specific kidney panel or is it typically part of cbc?

Growman · Aug 1, 2014

gtj you are right, kidneys don't regenerate like the liver does. When liver toxicity is high, it will go back down once the toxic compound is stopped. Kidneys are different, they don't heal themselves.

Mewalrus you should ask your doc to give you your kidney function values. My Doctor always does because he prescribes HRT drugs and weight loss drugs. So he always goes over my liver and kidney values and cholesterol, as well as test and estrogen. When your doc draws your blood just tell him you want to check for all of that. Just watch out most insurance companies will only cover you for one comprehensive blood test per year, then you have to pay and it could be a lot. Better off knowing though...