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"THE THINK TANK" - A Unique Perspective into the Mental and Physical Aspects of our S

LOL, I can see were my post was not clear. Im talking about avoiding rebound fat gain. This is just an idea i have in my head.

when you start to cut, and are smart about it you do things in steps, to avoid rebound I was thinking of doing everything in reverse order that I added instead of just stopping and just cruising.

Well the approach I used over the last couple years was to have 7-10 days of diet as I was putting on size, so for every 4 weeks or so ( I usually used the mirror) I would do anywhere from 7-10 days of low carbs. This would help get a little fat back off but more importantly get my insulin sensitivity back in order. Then go back to eating for size again.
I adopted this off the old ABCDE diet but I just simplified it and used it as a metabolic bump, I wouldnt gain as much overall bodyweight but the quality was completely different and leaner.
I think the process could use some refinement but year before last I was 292 and could still see my abs.
 
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Well the approach I used over the last couple years was to have 7-10 days of diet as I was putting on size, so for every 4 weeks or so ( I usually used the mirror) I would do anywhere from 7-10 days of low carbs. This would help get a little fat back off but more importantly get my insulin sensitivity back in order. Then go back to eating for size again.
I adopted this off the old ABCDE diet but I just simplified it and used it as a metabolic bump, I wouldnt gain as much overall bodyweight but the quality was completely different and leaner.
I think the process could use some refinement but year before last I was 292 and could still see my abs.

Thanks, I think I will incorporate something like this, I plan to get leaner than i intend to stay...So a diet like that would give some wiggle room.
 
Sometimes my mind wrestles with all these fat burning supps.

Whether it be ECA stacks, caffeine, green tea, guarana, yohimbine, etc,
are they harmful? I mean they raise your heart rate and core body temp.

Do you guys think they're safer than a low dose of clenbuterol? Why?

Back in the day, Spirodent made some legit clen, dosed at 2 mcg per tab.
6 mcg's/day worked wonders!

Anybody know of any good sources of legit clen?

-MT

Personally if health is the concern i'd avoid the stimulant based fat burners as much as possible, injectable l-carnitine is cheap to make and incredibly underrated, and it's actually healthy for your heart and brain. I don't think anyone needs an ECA stack, that's just too taxing on the body, a low dose clen cycling on and off with taurine added (it depletes taurine from thes muscles, the heart also being a muscle) would be the "lesser of two evils" imho. Green tea extract, alpha yohimbine, insulin sensitizing agents (berberine is a favourite), estrogen managing agents (aromasin, arimidex, dim, 1-3-c. I guess i'd personally do everything possible to control estrogen, bloodsugar, lower inflammation and use things to help mobilize the fat stores a little more. As opposed to just pop some eca and burns many more calories because my heart is racing.
 
OK unlocking myself is how I did it today besides the one set and that one set was much weaker (I assume based on the angle) so I'll stick to the unlocking it away method.

I looked back at our old messages and you did say close grip bench and reverse presses so I must have just mixed it up in my head thinking close grip applied to the reverse press. I'll go with the wider grip as you mentioned, which I'm sure my wrists will approve of lol. You also mentioned in our message about putting a block or towel there too which is funny because during the exercise today I specifically thought how the lower 2-3in seemed to strain my shoulders a bit.

Dips, close grip floor press, close grip incline/decline press, seated half press, decline skullcrushers. I've never been able to feel comfortable with the reverse grip bench, I will give it another shot though.
 
I'm going to say that for short periods of time moderate clen use is probably safer than most fat burners out there. I do think long term usage can cause issues, but a moderate dose for 2 week periods I would say will not cause much harm.

Yes, I use caffeine and yohimbine, but nothing with proprietary blends or that does not have a longstanding history of use with established guidelines.

I am currently using m4bteam.com's clen and I definitely feel it. I get the sweats and shakes from 40mcg. My girl used 20mcg and her heart was pounding lol

Do you take anything to support your adrenal glands during or after the stimulants used?
 
Do you take anything to support your adrenal glands during or after the stimulants used?

My mom's boyfriend/life partner (just wish they would get married already lol) is a chiropractor and he gets me Standard process vitamins so I take their Adrenal complex and Drenamin. I also take ashwagandha, extra magnesium, b-complex and vitamin c when coming off stims...
 
Personally if health is the concern i'd avoid the stimulant based fat burners as much as possible, injectable l-carnitine is cheap to make and incredibly underrated, and it's actually healthy for your heart and brain. I don't think anyone needs an ECA stack, that's just too taxing on the body, a low dose clen cycling on and off with taurine added (it depletes taurine from thes muscles, the heart also being a muscle) would be the "lesser of two evils" imho. Green tea extract, alpha yohimbine, insulin sensitizing agents (berberine is a favourite), estrogen managing agents (aromasin, arimidex, dim, 1-3-c. I guess i'd personally do everything possible to control estrogen, bloodsugar, lower inflammation and use things to help mobilize the fat stores a little more. As opposed to just pop some eca and burns many more calories because my heart is racing.

DIM and Calcium D glutanate are very under rated as well. Our liver can only metabolize so many hormones a day...additional hormones with extra estrogen to deal with really slows things down, helping the liver do its job reduces the need for as much AI

When I start to diet the first thing I do is make sure I get 7000 EPA from fishoil and up the ubiqunol. Reducing inflammation drops a ton of bloat, and lowers cortisone in the evenings so internal fat can be burned...without effecting morning cortisol.
 
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Cerb I'm sure you must have heard some stuff from layne and a bunch of other coaches recently about all the reverse dieting concepts? He and others have a lot of stuff on youtube related to it you might find interesting but basically as you said it's very slowly adding back calories so the body adapts and increases BMR/TDEE without adding much body fat back.

I suppose you could apply a similar theory to the gear.

Adjos, how much fat would you tend to lose in those 7-10 days? I imagine no real muscle loss in such a short time. My biggest stall to long term gains in lifting was too much switching over to cutting from bulking. Whenever I got away from my solid 7-10 month bulks and instead would have a surplus for a few months followed by cutting for a few months I never netted any progress. But if one were to be in a surplus for say 4 months and put on some muscle and maybe 3-4lb of fat and then lose 2-3lb of that fat in just 2 weeks while retaining muscle that could allow one to make net gains for a very long time in theory before too much fat was added that a serious much longer cut was necessary.


Dips, close grip floor press, close grip incline/decline press, seated half press, decline skullcrushers. I've never been able to feel comfortable with the reverse grip bench, I will give it another shot though.

I probably wouldn't do BB reverse grip but with the smith it felt pretty good since I didn't have to worry about stabilizing much. I'll see how it feels next week with all of my sets having the wider grip.

PJR pullovers were another one Cerb mentioned, I've done them once before but it's been years so maybe whenever I need to switch out the reverse smith presses I'll try those.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Cerb I'm sure you must have heard some stuff from layne and a bunch of other coaches recently about all the reverse dieting stuff? He and others have a lot of stuff on youtube related to it you might find interesting but basically as you said it's very slowly adding back calories so the body adapts and increases BMR/TDEE without adding much body fat back.

I suppose you could apply a similar theory to the gear.

Adjos, how much fat would you tend to lose in those 7-10 days? I imagine no real muscle loss in such a short time. My biggest stall to long term gains in lifting was too much switching over to cutting from bulking. Whenever I got away from my solid 7-10 month bulks and instead would have a surplus for a few months followed by cutting for a few months I never netted any progress. But if one were to be in a surplus for say 4 months and put on some muscle and maybe 3-4lb of fat and then lose 2-3lb of that fat in just 2 weeks while retaining muscle that could allow one to make net gains for a very long time in theory before too much fat was added that a serious much longer cut was necessary.




I probably wouldn't do BB reverse grip but with the smith it felt pretty good since I didn't have to worry about stabilizing much. I'll see how it feels next week with all of my sets having the wider grip.

PJR pullovers were another one Cerb mentioned, I've done them once before but it's been years so maybe whenever I need to switch out the reverse smith presses I'll try those.

That's some of where I got the idea from...but want to hear about how it works being assisted.

Im in the same boat as you...my first plan is to start at a lower body fat to build from. Gaining from 5% to 10% is better than 10% to 15% insulin sensitivity should be better, puting LBM gains in your favor.
 
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Cerb I'm sure you must have heard some stuff from layne and a bunch of other coaches recently about all the reverse dieting concepts? He and others have a lot of stuff on youtube related to it you might find interesting but basically as you said it's very slowly adding back calories so the body adapts and increases BMR/TDEE without adding much body fat back.

I suppose you could apply a similar theory to the gear.

Adjos, how much fat would you tend to lose in those 7-10 days? I imagine no real muscle loss in such a short time. My biggest stall to long term gains in lifting was too much switching over to cutting from bulking. Whenever I got away from my solid 7-10 month bulks and instead would have a surplus for a few months followed by cutting for a few months I never netted any progress. But if one were to be in a surplus for say 4 months and put on some muscle and maybe 3-4lb of fat and then lose 2-3lb of that fat in just 2 weeks while retaining muscle that could allow one to make net gains for a very long time in theory before too much fat was added that a serious much longer cut was necessary.




I probably wouldn't do BB reverse grip but with the smith it felt pretty good since I didn't have to worry about stabilizing much. I'll see how it feels next week with all of my sets having the wider grip.

PJR pullovers were another one Cerb mentioned, I've done them once before but it's been years so maybe whenever I need to switch out the reverse smith presses I'll try those.
Couldnt quantify it - if I had to guess 1-2 lbs at the most. The aim in my mind isnt so much pro-active fat loss, its more re-achieving insulin sensitivity. A lot of what you see loss is the same as at the beginning of any diet when you switch from say a gaining diet to low carb - the initial onset when leptin is still nice and high will be a bit more dramatic.
What my true goal is - is to duplicate on a micro cycle level the same effect a bodybuilder gets the first week after a show.
Obviously the effect is not as dramatic seeing as a 12 week diet really makes you very very insulin sensitive.
But usually the week after a show we have all experienced gains eating cheat foods the entire week. The effect slows down each subsequent week thereafter, so in my mind I though why not kick it back to the dieted condition and reset the sensitivity enough to make gains under a more nutrient partitioned environment.
So in the end its more about not gaining as much fat, than it is actual fat loss. I accept the evil of fat gains when gaining size but curbing that gain so its less is a win to me.
I want to refine the cycle, something more like 10 days of diet for 20 some odd days of gain diet. Its gonna take some trial and error and I would think that each person would have to personalize such cycles to their own bodies unique adaptation to each part of the cycle.
To add to this, I think the use of metformin, r-ala and other supps and meds to help keep insulin sensitivity higher would be very smart.
Also in the past the first week of high carbs, I will use insulin then drop it subsequent weeks until the low carb reset.
DNP can be used efficiently in there as well-use it for a bit and your insulin sensitivity on the back side goes way up.
Again still havent worked out a rock hard protocol.
 
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This isn't exactly what you guys are referring to but does make several references to increasing insulin sensitivity, minimizing the number of days one has to suffer, and helping with fat. The article mostly addresses fat loss but there are a significant number of people who do the occasional day like this while gaining as well. I used to follow up all my big refeeds with a 1000 calorie day back in my 2011 bulk which was my most successful natural bulk


T Nation | The 5/2 Fat-Loss Diet for Lifters

try to ignore the spamming of products if possible :rolleyes:
 
Couldnt quantify it - if I had to guess 1-2 lbs at the most. The aim in my mind isnt so much pro-active fat loss, its more re-achieving insulin sensitivity. A lot of what you see loss is the same as at the beginning of any diet when you switch from say a gaining diet to low carb - the initial onset when leptin is still nice and high will be a bit more dramatic.
What my true goal is - is to duplicate on a micro cycle level the same effect a bodybuilder gets the first week after a show.
Obviously the effect is not as dramatic seeing as a 12 week diet really makes you very very insulin sensitive.
But usually the week after a show we have all experienced gains eating cheat foods the entire week. The effect slows down each subsequent week thereafter, so in my mind I though why not kick it back to the dieted condition and reset the sensitivity enough to make gains under a more nutrient partitioned environment.
So in the end its more about not gaining as much fat, than it is actual fat loss. I accept the evil of fat gains when gaining size but curbing that gain so its less is a win to me.
I want to refine the cycle, something more like 10 days of diet for 20 some odd days of gain diet. Its gonna take some trial and error and I would think that each person would have to personalize such cycles to their own bodies unique adaptation to each part of the cycle.
To add to this, I think the use of metformin, r-ala and other supps and meds to help keep insulin sensitivity higher would be very smart.
Also in the past the first week of high carbs, I will use insulin then drop it subsequent weeks until the low carb reset.
DNP can be used efficiently in there as well-use it for a bit and your insulin sensitivity on the back side goes way up.
Again still havent worked out a rock hard protocol.

I have found injected reservatrol to be almost as effective as metaformin, without the GI upset and other sides.

Carbs only around workout, or last meal of the day (back loading) is effective for increasing insulin sensitivity as well.

Im not opposed to sane DNP use....but since it elevates temp so rapidly you need to keep an eye on prolactin.
 
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I have found injected reservatrol to be almost as effective as metaformin, without the GI upset and other sides.

Carbs only around workout, or last meal of the day (back loading) is effective for increasing insulin sensitivity as well.

Im not opposed to sane DNP use....but since it elevates temp so rapidly you need to keep an eye on prolactin.

Never heard of that before, interesting, I didnt even know there was an injectable form.
 
Never heard of that before, interesting, I didnt even know there was an injectable form.

Oral is pretty much useless, but injected it is pretty good. Obviously this falls into the gray research area.
 
Oral is pretty much useless, but injected it is pretty good. Obviously this falls into the gray research area.

I'd always heard it used for the whole life extension type thing, didnt know it could be used to improve insulin sensitivity.
 
This isn't exactly what you guys are referring to but does make several references to increasing insulin sensitivity, minimizing the number of days one has to suffer, and helping with fat. The article mostly addresses fat loss but there are a significant number of people who do the occasional day like this while gaining as well. I used to follow up all my big refeeds with a 1000 calorie day back in my 2011 bulk which was my most successful natural bulk


T Nation | The 5/2 Fat-Loss Diet for Lifters

try to ignore the spamming of products if possible :rolleyes:

I've followed similar diets in the past...They work well.
 
I'd always heard it used for the whole life extension type thing, didnt know it could be used to improve insulin sensitivity.

IT has shown to improve lipids, inflammation, lower estrogen,increase endurance along with anti cancer benefits...there are some places that sell it. I was getting it from a friend, but he just got deployed. So waiting for him to send me instructions to make it.
 
DIM and Calcium D glutanate are very under rated as well. Our liver can only metabolize so many hormones a day...additional hormones with extra estrogen to deal with really slows things down, helping the liver do its job reduces the need for as much AI

When I start to diet the first thing I do is make sure I get 7000 EPA from fishoil and up the ubiqunol. Reducing inflammation drops a ton of bloat, and lowers cortisone in the evenings so internal fat can be burned...without effecting morning cortisol.

Thank you! If someone is an "undermethylator" they are having issues detoxing their hormones through the liver, the liver is huge for fatloss, dim/1-3-c should be used year round with the sheer amount of environmental estrogens, you can have high E1 with estradiol in range. A b100 complex, extra b12 (methyl), same etc. will help methylation.
 
Something to try for dips and chins:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuaUTOMQQrc]Dip - YouTube[/ame], 2:30, try this legs forward position on dips and chins, if you watch a gymnastic that is more so how they will do a chin locking down the core even more so.
 
Good Stuff

You guys are smart!
Love it. True Thinkers and Tankers!
Well done!!!!!!!

OK, so does this make any sense?
Since my Triple By Pass 4 years ago, I have been extra diligent about my
health, especially my heart health. Blood work every 3 months, stress tests,
blah, blah, blah.

So I figured if I could lower my resting pulse, it would be a good thing.
Well, with all my HIIT cardio, my RP has lowered from ~70 bpm > 48-50 bpm.

I'm happy about that.
But.........I'm not quite as lean as I once was and it bugs me.
I think I've lowered my HR which has slowed my fat burning capabilities.

????????????????????????????????????????????????

I'm serious when I say I eat crystal clean 99.9% of the time.

Prescription T3 does squat for me.
I have noticed a leaner "me" with the green tea and "zero artificial sweeteners"
and I can clearly see my abs and veins in my lower abs.

But damn that lower back fat is pissing me off.

Thoughts?

-MT
 

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