"Trying to fail" vs. Lifting with as much intensity as possible

[Biggerp73]

I think the point I was getting at was not just failure vs. non failure, or powerlifting vs. bodybuilding, but specifically, the difference between

"trying to make the weight feel as heavy as possible while using good form"

and

"trying to make the weight feel as light as possible while using good form"


If you approach a weight, amp your self up, ("light weight baby!!!!!!"), and get as insanely intense and violent as you possibly can, and just throw that mother f*cker as fast and as powerfully as you can through the concentric, and just slow smooth and controlled eccentric...

I think it's a much better approach than trying to make the weight feel as heavy as possible..

 

[hawkmoon]

IMHO depending on the individual, if one goes into it full of fire and just wants to get that weight up they will unconsciously use all kinds of leverage to accomplish that.

I have felt my best progress comes when I know the muscle I am focusing on is doing the work and going as heavy as I can, and to failure, without losing that focus.

Once I am just trying to move that bar it's time to stop and do something else.

 

[jeroendebleser]

I think the point I was getting at was not just failure vs. non failure, or powerlifting vs. bodybuilding, but specifically, the difference between

"trying to make the weight feel as heavy as possible while using good form"

and

"trying to make the weight feel as light as possible while using good form"


If you approach a weight, amp your self up, ("light weight baby!!!!!!"), and get as insanely intense and violent as you possibly can, and just throw that mother f*cker as fast and as powerfully as you can through the concentric, and just slow smooth and controlled eccentric...

I think it's a much better approach than trying to make the weight feel as heavy as possible..

Agreed.

 

[KillerStack]

I think the point I was getting at was not just failure vs. non failure, or powerlifting vs. bodybuilding, but specifically, the difference between

"trying to make the weight feel as heavy as possible while using good form"

and

"trying to make the weight feel as light as possible while using good form"


If you approach a weight, amp your self up, ("light weight baby!!!!!!"), and get as insanely intense and violent as you possibly can, and just throw that mother f*cker as fast and as powerfully as you can through the concentric, and just slow smooth and controlled eccentric...

I think it's a much better approach than trying to make the weight feel as heavy as possible..

I think research into growth and its relation ship to failure is seriously flawed. Firstly because some of the programs used are impossible to do as stated, too hard. Lyle McDonald has commented on some of these impossible programs. Secondly, the failure concept means different things to different people. There are a lot of people who claim they always go to failure. There is the Jordan Peters type of failure and then there is the gym bro failure, two different things. On the leg press almost no one ever goes to failure, including all the pros. How many times have we seen someone fail on the leg press? I struggle to think of one. Failure means you fail and drop the weight on the safety catches or your spotters pull it off you.

I agree with you, if you think of failing as fast as possible is the best way, it's unlikely your strength and muscle growth will be maximal.

 

[tokon]

Apologies for being Captain Obvious but the key training factor is " progressive overload" and there are many ways of achieving this.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

Exactly, there's a fair mix of both you can do.

Yes, train to failure. But yes, train with controlled reps.
What I usually do is progressively overload until I NOTICE that I'm cheating myself.
Once i start throwing momentum around, i know that I need to check the go at the door and re-check the weight.
If that means I need to drop 2 reps to control it, so be it.
But in the end, I'm still progressing after that.

Periodize and do both. Dunno why we always have to turn everything into this vs that.

Training to failure get's a bad rap because a few assclowns engage in gym theatrics to make everyone know how hard they are training

 

[xpoc]

I think the point I was getting at was not just failure vs. non failure, or powerlifting vs. bodybuilding, but specifically, the difference between

"trying to make the weight feel as heavy as possible while using good form"

and

"trying to make the weight feel as light as possible while using good form"


If you approach a weight, amp your self up, ("light weight baby!!!!!!"), and get as insanely intense and violent as you possibly can, and just throw that mother f*cker as fast and as powerfully as you can through the concentric, and just slow smooth and controlled eccentric...

I think it's a much better approach than trying to make the weight feel as heavy as possible..

We had a guy in our gym who was an accomplished powerlifter. He disappeared for a period of time and came back absolutely JACKED. He said he had switched to bodybuilding. He was much more muscular upon his return (prob 30 lbs heavier...all muscle). It wasn't the gear because I know he was on gear as a powerlifter too. I watched him train and he was using a good amount of weight, like up to 265x8-10 on incline BB press for example. But he used to bang out reps with 365. He told me his focus was to make each lift harder so he didn't have to use as much weight. He explained on chest day he would pre-exhaust by starting with pec deck before moving on to inclines. On inclines he said he started to flare his elbows out more and began bringing the bar almost to his adams apple (guillitone style). He focused on the eccentric stroke and tried to push with a steady effort rather than explosively. On squats he switched to high bar squats using a cambered bar and rarely went over 315 when he used to routinely work north of 500. Like I said, it certainly worked for him. He was much more muscular despite using far less weight.

 

[FK86]

Everything is right and everything is wrong! Since this covid crap came along and my gym is closed I'm training at home with nothing more than resistance bands. My sets end well before failure, workouts are 20-25 minutes, strength is probably tanked but my physique has not suffered one bit........go figure!

Same thing happened to me. I had two sets of dumbbells in my condo, resistance wasn't adequate for the most part so I increased volume and used shorter rest periods. Ended up holding weight and physique, but strength tanked 20% on everything.

I'm back to proper workouts and training to true failure again. I'm sure that three months served me well in terms of recovery, but damn does it suck to have to get back to where I was before I can push forward.