and i didn't say that Jose Raymond didn't turn pro naturally, i just said that i dont believe it - because why would anyone compete in an untested bodybuilding league where everyone else is on juice, without juicing themselves?
As far as Jose, I can understand why he tried competing naturally as a pro (and it was only for his first show). If you were winning shows for years as a natural, turn pro as a natural, wouldn't you think to yourself, "damn I'm good, let's see if I can beat these guys without using gear"
He says himself, "after getting my ass kicked, I realized that in order for me to be competitive I was going to have to even out the playing field and go to the dark side"
You can look up the shows and see the difference. You think anyone that is already doing gear, got their initial cycle gains, can just up the dose and gain 18lbs of stage weight in 3 months?!? Damn 18lbs! If I manage to gain 5lbs of stage weight blasting for a year, I'm happy like a pig in shit! Do you see the genetic difference there?
Lastly, do I believe all the pros? Hell no. Yes most of them lie through their teeth, downplaying the importance of drugs. They don't want to give drugs credit, for the work they have put in. They preach lower doses, and while some of them maintain on lower doses, they have a selective memory of what doses got them to where they are.
But like I said, there are exceptions to every rule. Some people are really blessed. There is guys that blast a gram for their first cycle, and gain nothing but some water and are lucky if they manage to put on 5lbs of actual tissue. Then there is guys that do 250mg for their first cycle and gain 20lbs of muscle. That's life and its not always fair.
Ofcourse wouldn't be a proper debate if I didn't ask; if its just about the high dosages, why don't you blast 1.5g of Test, 1.5g of Tren a bunch of orals, and get on the Olympia stage. Prove us wrong. Well maybe you don’t have the structure to be a good pro, but if its just about high drugs, you can at least easily turn pro. Go win a national overall at least. Show us what drugs it takes to get there.
When I was younger, I did sort of believe it was just about the drugs (gh15 wasn't much help in thinking otherwise lol) but the older I get, the more I realize how we are all so different, respond differently, grow differently. But most of all, I no longer care what others do, or whether they lie, or what I suspect they really do. Only care about what I'm willing to do, how I can improve, and what I'm capable if achieving. Only concern myself with myself, who cares what the next guy might be doing.