Leo that Effin scumbag...

[Dugbet]

You keep missing the point. I stated that I am surprised that the above is the case since there are laws in place that clearly make this practice illegal. No one is talking about certifying prep coaches lol. The government is funny. There are laws they seem to really care about and then there are laws they don't seem to really care about at all.................................right up until the moment they do. I willing to bet many of these YT and IG guys have no idea what Raw Deal and Gear Grinder were. Based on the way many conduct themselves these days you would think gear is now legal. At the moment is appears they, the feds, are not interested in such laws.............................until they are again. Rest assured enough bodies keep dropping and enough people keep making noise the indifference to such laws will cease to exist.

I saw a bunch of people speeding today.......................I guess speed limits don't exist anymore because not a single one was pulled over..........lol. Make NO MISTAKE I think two adults entering into an agreement should be left alone by government intrusion as long as the two parties are the only ones involved and understand the risks but that is not the world we live in. Have a nice day man, that's enough for me.

I understand what you are saying, but the problem is not only that the government decides which laws to impose and which not, the problem is that you cannot impose a law when everyone ignores it and violates it as happens in this industry.

For example, if no one wears a mask, the government cannot punish, fine, imprison or murder millions of individuals. Sometimes we forget that the power of a law depends on the complicity and obedience of the governed.

Clients agree not to require certified professionals, at the end of the day if a client wants a certified trainer they can seek one, but clients want good advice and knowledge to get results. And they believe that the most capable coaches are those who have experience competing in the past or those who have worked with successful athletes or with a large number of athletes.

I don't think any of that is a guarantee inself, and I hate more than anyone that some famous guys have clients just for being notorious on social media, but that's how this market works.

But even if they obtain a certified coach, the recommendations to obtain the contest condition go against the improvement of health or athletic performance, then, that coach is also violating the law as he is making potentially harmful recommendations for the subject.

In short, bodybuilding competitions due to the demand and how extreme it is for the body, would be prohibited. And for the record, so are many other sports where athletes are at risk of harm to health or death.

Football is dangerous, or MMA, are the coaches who are training the players liable if they get brain damage, disability or worse? They are complicit, but not only they, so are the promoters, those who participate in the business, and the fans.

 

[totalrecomp]

I understand what you are saying, but the problem is not only that the government decides which laws to impose and which not, the problem is that you cannot impose a law when everyone ignores it and violates it as happens in this industry.

For example, if no one wears a mask, the government cannot punish, fine, imprison or murder millions of individuals. Sometimes we forget that the power of a law depends on the complicity and obedience of the governed.

Clients agree not to require certified professionals, at the end of the day if a client wants a certified trainer they can seek one, but clients want good advice and knowledge to get results. And they believe that the most capable coaches are those who have experience competing in the past or those who have worked with successful athletes or with a large number of athletes.

I don't think any of that is a guarantee inself, and I hate more than anyone that some famous guys have clients just for being notorious on social media, but that's how this market works.

But even if they obtain a certified coach, the recommendations to obtain the contest condition go against the improvement of health or athletic performance, then, that coach is also violating the law as he is making potentially harmful recommendations for the subject.

In short, bodybuilding competitions due to the demand and how extreme it is for the body, would be prohibited. And for the record, so are many other sports where athletes are at risk of harm to health or death.

Football is dangerous, or MMA, are the coaches who are training the players liable if they get brain damage, disability or worse? They are complicit, but not only they, so are the promoters, those who participate in the business, and the fans.

There does not have to be sweeping enforcement they can, and have historically, made examples of select individuals/companies. They will be doing this shortly with certain "supplements." See the pending case against PJ Braun and Singerman, plenty of people still doing what they were doing but they got singled out, targeted, and made an example of. Look up what happened to the owner of MedFit RX for another example of what I am referring to.

They don't have to arrest and charge every Tom, Dick, and Harry coaching a few contestants at the local level. They could, if they decided to, charge a couple of high-profile coaches based in the US and throw the book at them. Would this stop the practice? Of course not but it might stop some people from doing it as a side gig. Look at drug dealing, they know they could never stop all dealers but that certainly does not stop them from targeting certain individuals and making big splashy examples of them.

I AM NOT CALLING FOR REGULATION/CERTIFICATION all I was doing was making the observation that it surprises me that no one ever gets charged, especially considering the level of drug involvement and the fact that there are bodies involved. The argument that a dietician/nutritionist/doctor could not legally do contest prep, and I agree, does not change the fact that some guy on the internet cannot legally do it either.

I AM in favor of people not being morons and knowing what the hell they are putting in their own bodies but we live in a day and age of ZERO personal responsibility combined with intellectual laziness. It's no wonder that combined with a cavalier coach(not speaking about anyone specific here) shit goes terribly wrong from time to time. Maybe we just need a bunch of influencers to make some TikTok videos about how to not die in contest prep and the problem would go away.

 

[td]

Scott McNally, Ken Skip Hill and Andrew Berry discuss recent allegations.

 

[Elvia1023]

There are always 2 sides to every story. I have heard of many people being put on low dose cycles from Shelby. Plus it's no surprise that some of these woman do various rec drugs as well because fact is many bodybuilders abuse alsorts of things (party drugs, stimulants, painkillers, sleep meds etc). Truth be told quite a lot of androgen taking female bodybuilders are complete mental cases. There is something definitely off about that Stephanie and the video above goes into all of that so it's no surprise. But fact is he still put her on high t3, high clen, high stimulants, letrozole, aromasin, nolvadex then 2 weeks out he added tren a, halo and mast p.

This is why I appreciate guys who are just open because so many of these bodybuilders/coaches act like they are super healthy and low dose everything and it's all bullshit. They act like 80mcg clen or 80mg tren a daily is wreckless whilst having people on multiple drugs at high doses in private. I have come across that a lot over the years. I even noticed a few coaches who have spoken out about Shelby have done the exact same thing so it's almost laughable how bad some people are. So whilst I think some things aren't from the best sources I think it's a good thing this has come out because many coaches will be aware that they can't do their science experiments on women now. Yes some women don't care and will take everything they can and the coach shouldn't be blamed for that but female bodybuilding did become ridiculous and it's all because of the excessive drug usage. So even if she did party and take xanax and molly etc and that would have lead to some of her physical and mental side effects that shouldn't mean all the other stuff is justifiable.

 

[specter]

What gets me is Leo saying 100mcg of clen and 100mcg of t3 ed for couple weeks will give permanent heart damage..

 

[Dugbet]

What gets me is Leo saying 100mcg of clen and 100mcg of t3 ed for couple weeks will give permanent heart damage..

He himself says he is hypochondriac, I found him to be exaggerated and overly dramatic, which is not necessarily a bad thing either as many think that these drugs have no side effects.

 

[Dugbet]

I AM NOT CALLING FOR REGULATION/CERTIFICATION all I was doing was making the observation that it surprises me that no one ever gets charged, especially considering the level of drug involvement and the fact that there are bodies involved.

The only reasonable explanation I can think of for this is that the contest scene is more marginal than we think, and while there are always prosecutors eager to arrest someone, I think they are much more interested in the Gear dealers than in those who give advice about them. I think the law is easier to apply in the first case than in the second.

What is surprising is that we have not seen athletes denounce their gurus, perhaps it is difficult to avoid personal responsibility, perhaps it is because no one wants to appear stupid or because of fear of recognizing the use of illegal substances.

 

[specter]

He himself says he is hypochondriac, I found him to be exaggerated and overly dramatic, which is not necessarily a bad thing either as many think that these drugs have no side effects.

Oh they do have side effects no doubt.

 

[FartJohnson]

Common sense is the solution. Some people need to do better research of what and how much they put in the body. If they don’t have the time to do so, then they shouldn’t be using it.

There aren't any guidelines for safe usage of bodybuilding drugs. Common sense goes out the window you start running gear

On the one hand I think coaches should be held liable for clearly reckless advice. On the other, where do you draw that line?

 

[KillerStack]

On the one hand I think coaches should be held liable for clearly reckless advice. On the other, where do you draw that line?

Exactly. For example, is Dyazide ok? For one day, two or three? How about aldactone plus Dyazide? Or aldactone plus Bumex? Or aldactone, Dyazide plus Bumex? Are loop diuretics ever acceptabe considering most horror stories involve loop diuretics? Examples of loop diuretic protocols are, for example, Dorian Yates prescribing Demadex, IIRC, to Craig Titus which almost killed him. Chad Nicholls supposedly uses loop diuretics. George Farah was critical of Shelby but according to Bleu Taylor Farah has prescribed Lasix. Bleu said Farah and himself were coaching the same individual once and Bleu told the client not to take the Lasix on show day but Farah thought he did Lol - the client did well and Farah said, "this is what happens when the coach knows what he is doing" Lol.

How much thyroid is acceptable? How much clen? Personally I don't feel like 200mcg of clen is all that much considering you lose sensitivity quickly - if you do 200mcg after 8 weeks on it is it unacceptable?

How do you guys think these revelations this will affect Shelby's business? They said Shelby has as many as 400 active clients sounds crazy to me.

 

[maldorf]

Do some or all of these coaches have their clients sign some kind of health waiver before they are consulted? Not sure if that would hold up in court anyhow.

 

[Dugbet]

I don't want to open another thread on the same subject, so

 

[FK86]

Looks like Scott McNally pulled that video after all. I saw the comments in there and no one was agreeing with the three of them.

 

[Elvia1023]

Looks like Scott McNally pulled that video after all. I saw the comments in there and no one was agreeing with the three of them.

Exactly. Every single comment was against them so they pulled it for damage control. I am all for sticking up for your mate but sometimes your mate simply fucks up and needs to be called out for it.

 

[pimpman]

but his getting exactly what you guys are giving him here ATTENTION by having a topic about him. remember bad publicity is still publicity

 

[Gunsmith]

Who the hell is this Leo guy and what is his relevance in bodybuilding??
I don't follow anyone on social media or YouTube or anything, thi is the first time I've heard of him

 

[VaginaBoob89]

Who the hell is this Leo guy and what is his relevance in bodybuilding??
I don't follow anyone on social media or YouTube or anything, thi is the first time I've heard of him

He's an arabic guy with a somewhat shady past. He has a highly educated background, but he does deliberately misrepresent some parts of his academic background. Regardless, he mostly makes super high quality content and isn't afraid to attack popular people when they are wrong about stuff. He was an arm wrestler and not a bodybuilder and was fairly big and strong, but not at all elite level or anything.

Bostin is a guy who used to take very high doses for himself and speculates that most IFBB pros also take extremely high doses. He prescribes extremely low doses to most of his clients, but because he once experimented with taking 13g/wk in 2015, people assume that this is what he does with clients.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

He's an arabic guy with a somewhat shady past. He has a highly educated background, but he does deliberately misrepresent some parts of his academic background. Regardless, he mostly makes super high quality content and isn't afraid to attack popular people when they are wrong about stuff. He was an arm wrestler and not a bodybuilder and was fairly big and strong, but not at all elite level or anything.

Bostin is a guy who used to take very high doses for himself and speculates that most IFBB pros also take extremely high doses. He prescribes extremely low doses to most of his clients, but because he once experimented with taking 13g/wk in 2015, people assume that this is what he does with clients.

What makes you think he is right about stuff? Because he can parrot a pubmed study done by a group of people who he has no involvement with? Do you know what you can do with pubmed? You can form an ignorant opinion about something disregardless whether its correct or not and then use pubmed to back it up. Case in point: fasted cardio. I showed someone on another board exactly how you can do this once, I think it was musculardevelopment. You can find a study that represents "fasted cardio is the most proficient to burn bodyfat" and you can find a study stating "cardio done at any time of the day in a 24 hour period is the most proficient to burn bodyfat"........... so it is what it is... ...... What really sucks is you have no idea whatsoever of some stuff that has happened behind the scenes...no clue whatsoever....and it sucks that I am not the guy that gets into the game of stating that stuff (because I dont get involved with negativity)....but Ill say this "you can portray whatever you want to portray on youtube and social media"....and be a true POS behind the scenes.

Ever see how much that guy promotes statins and SSRI's for everyone? Why because he takes them and has formed an opinion on them regardless of the multitude of side effects those drugs have on everyone.

Are statins the best thing ever because a guy with a youtube channel says they are?

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28763875/

and

Clinical application of bergamot (Citrus bergamia) for reducing high cholesterol and cardiovascular disease markers

The bergamot is a citrus fruit native to southern Italy with traditional uses that include improving immune response and cardiovascular function. There are a variety of phytochemicals that have been found in the bergamot including brutieridin and melitidin ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"there are known dose related side effects shown in estimates as high as 22% of patients utilizing statins, including liver disease or severe myopathy"

"Though no clinical trials have reported on the coenzyme Q10 levels following bergamot administration, it may be another possible benefit over statins, as statins are well known to decrease plasma levels of coenzyme Q10"

" Interestingly, this study enrolled 32 human subjects who experienced statin toxicity. Prior to their enrollment to the bergamot study, human subjects stopped taking statins for 2 months. They were then administered 1500 mg of BPF daily. After 30 days, those patients receiving BPF had changes in total cholesterol (−25%) and LDL (−27.6%) without reappearance of statin toxicity."

Its freaking scary how many of you in this forum and on the internet put a huge amount of weight into people who have podcasts and youtube channels. ANY SINGLE PERSON ON THIS BOARD can have a podcast or youtube channel....every single one of you guys can. Any person on facebook or instagram can start their own podcast or youtube channel!!! Doesnt mean anything but their own opinion. If you guys havent figured out yet that this person is in this for money made from youtube and only money by saying outrageous headlines and shit talking people, I really feel sorry for you. See I made a decision long ago that because there are two kinds of people in this endeavor I decided to be one of them (which means the two kind of people are =)

a) an athlete who eats, trains, supplements, studies and does everything bodybuilding wise as an athlete. Thats my approach. Its an athletic endeavor for me. And i will not surround myself by anyone even remotely in group B, I am a positive person who believes in good karma and doing the right thing by others and ....my inner circle are people who have the exact same aspects as myself (Jon Ward, Dusty Hanshaw, Justin Harris, the late Matt Porter, the late John Meadows)...those were and are my inner circle of friends....

or

b) as a shit talker. These people are usually in bodybuilding because they cant freaking stand horribly unsolvable shortcomings and gravitate over to bodybuilding to fulfill some sort of insecurity that they can never fix.... and shit talking everyone else in the sport makes them feel better about themselves. They are negative and bring bad karma to themselves and everyone around them. You can usually really notice these kinds of people by the company they keep.

And if anyone wants to read this post and hear some advice from a guy who has done pretty well for himself in a multitude of ways in this endeavor....here Ill give you some. Remove every and all negative people (girlfriend, acquaintances, business partners, so-called friends, and remove the noise/info (as much as you can) you gather and what you watch and listen to that takes up time that is not worthy) in your life like no tomorrow.....and trust me on this.....you will be such a better person and much more successful at everything you do.

John Meadows was making 30-35k a month on youtube and he sure as heck wasnt being an ass to anyone doing so. I respect that 100 thousand times more than this shit talking crowd that alot of you guys put great weight into.

 

[KillerStack]

What makes you think he is right about stuff? Because he can parrot a pubmed study done by a group of people who he has no involvement with? Do you know what you can do with pubmed? You can form an ignorant opinion about something disregardless whether its correct or not and then use pubmed to back it up. Case in point: fasted cardio. I showed someone on another board exactly how you can do this once, I think it was musculardevelopment. You can find a study that represents "fasted cardio is the most proficient to burn bodyfat" and you can find a study stating "cardio done at any time of the day in a 24 hour period is the most proficient to burn bodyfat"........... so it is what it is... ...... What really sucks is you have no idea whatsoever of some stuff that has happened behind the scenes...no clue whatsoever....and it sucks that I am not the guy that gets into the game of stating that stuff (because I dont get involved with negativity)....but Ill say this "you can portray whatever you want to portray on youtube and social media"....and be a true POS behind the scenes.

Ever see how much that guy promotes statins and SSRI's for everyone? Why because he takes them and has formed an opinion on them regardless of the multitude of side effects those drugs have on everyone.

Are statins the best thing ever because a guy with a youtube channel says they are?

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28763875/

and

Clinical application of bergamot (Citrus bergamia) for reducing high cholesterol and cardiovascular disease markers

The bergamot is a citrus fruit native to southern Italy with traditional uses that include improving immune response and cardiovascular function. There are a variety of phytochemicals that have been found in the bergamot including brutieridin and melitidin ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"there are known dose related side effects shown in estimates as high as 22% of patients utilizing statins, including liver disease or severe myopathy"

"Though no clinical trials have reported on the coenzyme Q10 levels following bergamot administration, it may be another possible benefit over statins, as statins are well known to decrease plasma levels of coenzyme Q10"

" Interestingly, this study enrolled 32 human subjects who experienced statin toxicity. Prior to their enrollment to the bergamot study, human subjects stopped taking statins for 2 months. They were then administered 1500 mg of BPF daily. After 30 days, those patients receiving BPF had changes in total cholesterol (−25%) and LDL (−27.6%) without reappearance of statin toxicity."

Its freaking scary how many of you in this forum and on the internet put a huge amount of weight into people who have podcasts and youtube channels. ANY SINGLE PERSON ON THIS BOARD can have a podcast or youtube channel....every single one of you guys can. Any person on facebook or instagram can start their own podcast or youtube channel!!! Doesnt mean anything but their own opinion. If you guys havent figured out yet that this person is in this for money made from youtube and only money by saying outrageous headlines and shit talking people, I really feel sorry for you. See I made a decision long ago that because there are two kinds of people in this endeavor I decided to be one of them (which means the two kind of people are =)

a) an athlete who eats, trains, supplements, studies and does everything bodybuilding wise as an athlete. Thats my approach. Its an athletic endeavor for me. And i will not surround myself by anyone even remotely in group B, I am a positive person who believes in good karma and doing the right thing by others and ....my inner circle are people who have the exact same aspects as myself (Jon Ward, Dusty Hanshaw, Justin Harris, the late Matt Porter, the late John Meadows)...those were and are my inner circle of friends....

or

b) as a shit talker. These people are usually in bodybuilding because they cant freaking stand horribly unsolvable shortcomings and gravitate over to bodybuilding to fulfill some sort of insecurity that they can never fix.... and shit talking everyone else in the sport makes them feel better about themselves. They are negative and bring bad karma to themselves and everyone around them. You can usually really notice these kinds of people by the company they keep.

And if anyone wants to read this post and hear some advice from a guy who has done pretty well for himself in a multitude of ways in this endeavor....here Ill give you some. Remove every and all negative people (girlfriend, acquaintances, business partners, so-called friends, and remove the noise/info (as much as you can) you gather and what you watch and listen to that takes up time that is not worthy) in your life like no tomorrow.....and trust me on this.....you will be such a better person and much more successful at everything you do.

John Meadows was making 30-35k a month on youtube and he sure as heck wasnt being an ass to anyone doing so. I respect that 100 thousand times more than this shit talking crowd that alot of you guys put great weight into.

Leo uses and recommends google scholar though, not pubmed. He does seem to delve deeper than a pubmed search and cherry picking research, he says he keeps up with the latest research on his chosen topics and showed how it's done on google scholar. He has also made the point that a single study is no proof, same as you.

You might be right about his character defects, and I don't know about the behind scenes stuff. He does have a weird "morality" he talks about where it seems like he is likely to drop friends after professing loyalty. He dropped Nick Trigili after defending him from Fouad Abiad. He said he identified the scared bitch in Fouad after a phone conversation Lol. He does admit he's been an addict and had mental problems so maybe that's part of why he is like he is. Remains to be seen what happens with Bostin - Leo professed his lifelong loyalty to him after Palumbo set an ultimatum for Bostin, either him or Leo (because Leo said Ameen was a heroin addict and scammer). I love loyalty as well, but if you promise loyalty you better keep it.

I will say not just "anyone" can do what he does even if he's wrong about some or even a lot of stuff. Most people aren't capable of memorizing that stuff or even read as much. Many people haven't even read a single book in their lives Lol.

Regarding John Meadows, Victor Black said it was easy for him to not be negative since he had people handling his social media. Even Leo thought this was take was negative and not how you should respond so close to someone dying. Did you know Leo claims he had a lengthy correspondence with John?

 

[Lene28]

Anyone know who the female caller is? She sounds familiar

I know her. Shelby is weirdo that has some serious issues