Blood pressure high enough for beta blockers?

[Sixfoottwo]

---

I would absolutely try it in your case, and it's very likely your BP will not end up too low. But if it ends up being so, obv you can come off.

Maybe I'll order some indeed, worth the try. Thanks man!

 

[marssel]

Whats your weight, body fat, how often do you do cardio? What has your blood pressure been In the past? Getting on BP meds isn't something just to "be one of the guys" its a huge life decision. It's not that high and there is a good chance you can get it down (depending on what your doing). Mine has been that and higher before, but lately it's been perfect, never used BP meds just lowered dosages a bit, cut out some caffeine and energy drinks, ramped up the cardio.

Yea that’s not that high mines been close to that a couple times but it was always during a time of reduced discipline and/or high stress in life. Get that am fasted cardio in with plenty water and it’s amazing em what the body does. Right now with a new baby my cardio is way off and you can’t walk a stroller in 100 plus weather and I feel like shit from going from 4/5 days a week to maybe 2 it happens fast but fixes fast, especially for us bigger cats.

 

[qbkilla]

Okay, I just wanted you to give *some* reason why it's a "big decision" rather than just repeating "do you really think a doctor would prescribe", etc.

The crux of the issue is that you have an aversion to BP medications that I don't have. Telmisartan is an incredibly healthy compound, has little to no downsides, there's no issues whatsoever with taking it for a period and coming off, etc.

For some reason you view them with the stigma of "drugs" that are bad and only a last resort, carrying risks and downsides, etc etc. That just isn't true for some things, and Telmisartan is one of them where the risk reward curve is VERY favorable, IMO.


Well, I guess that answers the question of "would a doctor actually prescribe based on one reading".

I'm on phone plan to respond to your and heavy hitters post on why I think In general we as w society are using way to many prescription drugs, so give me a minute...but you seem fixated on me thinking taking a new drug medication being a big decision I think I answered you atlest once once yet you harp on it, it's kind of wierd.

You do realize that terms like smart, dumb, fat are subjective? So is " a big decision". What is a big decision is subjective. Taking AAS, getting a new roommate, taking a new medicine, starting a new diet, choosing a physical therapist to heal an injury, choosing a primary care doctor...using an anti e or not, using a little slim, bulking or cutting....how shall we categorize all these decisions as big or small? Couldn't be possible we may categorize them differently since they are subjective? If this doesn't answer your question in addition to my previous answer I can't help you. Lol.

 

[heavyhitter]

I'm on phone plan to respond to your and heavy hitters post on why I think In general we as w society are using way to many prescription drugs, so give me a minute...but you seem fixated on me thinking taking a new drug medication being a big decision I think I answered you atlest once once yet you harp on it, it's kind of wierd.

You do realize that terms like smart, dumb, fat are subjective? So is " a big decision". What is a big decision is subjective. Taking AAS, getting a new roommate, taking a new medicine, starting a new diet, choosing a physical therapist to heal an injury, choosing a primary care doctor...using an anti e or not, using a little slim, bulking or cutting....how shall we categorize all these decisions as big or small? Couldn't be possible we may categorize them differently since they are subjective? If this doesn't answer your question in addition to my previous answer I can't help you. Lol.

You say “we as a society”….but we’re not talking about society. We’re talking about bodybuilders. We’re societal outliers. Using AAS and other drugs to gain unnatural amounts of size has ramifications, and some of them, like high bp have to be mitigated, or they cause long term and permanent, and even fatal consequences. It’s part of the game. And of all the things we can take, the one with the best cost to benefit ration is going to be telmisartan. You view everything from a “health” standpoint. But it’s not that simple. Bodybuilding isn’t “healthy” but we can do things like controlling blood pressure during our endeavor to mitigate damage. If we were really just health focused….we wouldn’t be abusing steroids in the first place.

 

[qbkilla]

You say “we as a society”….but we’re not talking about society. We’re talking about bodybuilders. We’re societal outliers. Using AAS and other drugs to gain unnatural amounts of size has ramifications, and some of them, like high bp have to be mitigated, or they cause long term and permanent, and even fatal consequences. It’s part of the game. And of all the things we can take, the one with the best cost to benefit ration is going to be telmisartan. You view everything from a “health” standpoint. But it’s not that simple. Bodybuilding isn’t “healthy” but we can do things like controlling blood pressure during our endeavor to mitigate damage. If we were really just health focused….we wouldn’t be abusing steroids in the first place.

I agree if someone wants to be a pro bodybuilder they are going to have to put on enough weight possibly use enough drugs to where they need to be on all this medication. But look at it from this perspective..

We have some kid, decent genetics. Starts at 500mg, then 750mg, starts to get itchy nips. Posts, told to take an anti E. Few years later ups to maybe a gram, now say some acne "its horrible but I want to compete what can I do". the bros say accutaine, so now he's on that. Starts to have mental side effects, depressed, asks the bro's, so and so had good results with an SSRI a few guys recommend it so now he's on that. Then he starts have libido, he's now on Cialis (and its good for his heart bonus). Now he's having digestive issues (no surprise he's on all these different meds) so now he see's a doc for digestion, gets some medicine. He gets pretty big, sleep issues, now the CPAP.

Now he's on 6 medications and needs a CPAP. I mean, sure thats his choice. I hope he looks damn good (had good genetics to begin with and got out of his AAS/use bodybuilding) what he wanted. But at what point do we stop taking more medication on top of more medication? Sure some of its needed, but IMO its not a good habit to keep putting yourself in a position that you have to take more drugs over time.

I try to be pro-active vs reactive, live a minimalist lifestyle, and keep shit simple I(which is hard to do in bodybuilding and health). I've worked in crisis management. But the same concept applies to every field, every day situations.

Prevent things from happening is better than letting them happen then responding to them. Sure sometimes we can't prevent them, then we have to respond (but IMO thats not the simplest way or ideal).

School shootings- Prevent them from happening, vs focus on how to respond
Injury In the gym - Focus on preventing them (stretching, good form, not shit low reps) vs responding to them (surgery, deca, healing peptides, PT)
Securing your house - Get an alarm system or live in a safe neighborhood, vs figuring what your going to do when someone breaks in

Some people will say in this case blood pressure medicine is preventative, I don't agree I think it would be a response. You can't control your blood pressure, so you respond by taking medicine. The preventive stuff would be less AAS, better diet, lose a few lbs, do more cardio. This has worked for me so im not just talking about my ass, ive had high readings.

Im not saying that a guy who is dead set on being 260 can get away with being preventative he's going to have to respond to his high blood pressure and take a drug/medicine to prevent it from harming him.

But guys 190,205lbs, or 220 walking around at 16% bulking up to 250 who should be cutting as he's just getting fat, those type of people could probably still prevent themselves from needing medicine in the first place. And the preventative strategies (lifestyle changes other than drugs) will have added health benefits in addition to just lowering BP and putting less stress on the heart and kidneys.

But again, im focusing on the PED users/ "bodybuilders" who are smaller or put more emphasis on health. You say bodybuilding isn't healthy and it isn't, but it can be more healthy. Or we can balance our health and our physique goals to put it a different way. I don't believe that every person who lives a bodybuilding lifestyle (some degree of AAS use, hard training, diet) HAS to be unhealthy or on medication.

The main thing I disagree with are the posts where people say "every PED user should be on BP medication" I've seen this repeated many times. Now if there is one particular drug that is helpful to kidneys id be more than interested in seeing evidence or hearing about it as im open to learning. Me personally im more worried about my kidneys because I know I can control my BP without medication and still use PED (as can many) but kidneys at least in my opinion are more complicated. I've seen people say telmisartin is protective for the kidneys, but is this also in people that have normal blood pressure?

 

[OuchThatHurts]

I agree if someone wants to be a pro bodybuilder they are going to have to put on enough weight possibly use enough drugs to where they need to be on all this medication. But look at it from this perspective..

We have some kid, decent genetics. Starts at 500mg, then 750mg, starts to get itchy nips. Posts, told to take an anti E. Few years later ups to maybe a gram, now say some acne "its horrible but I want to compete what can I do". the bros say accutaine, so now he's on that. Starts to have mental side effects, depressed, asks the bro's, so and so had good results with an SSRI a few guys recommend it so now he's on that. Then he starts have libido, he's now on Cialis (and its good for his heart bonus). Now he's having digestive issues (no surprise he's on all these different meds) so now he see's a doc for digestion, gets some medicine. He gets pretty big, sleep issues, now the CPAP.

Now he's on 6 medications and needs a CPAP. I mean, sure thats his choice. I hope he looks damn good (had good genetics to begin with and got out of his AAS/use bodybuilding) what he wanted. But at what point do we stop taking more medication on top of more medication? Sure some of its needed, but IMO its not a good habit to keep putting yourself in a position that you have to take more drugs over time.

I try to be pro-active vs reactive, live a minimalist lifestyle, and keep shit simple I(which is hard to do in bodybuilding and health). I've worked in crisis management. But the same concept applies to every field, every day situations.

Prevent things from happening is better than letting them happen then responding to them. Sure sometimes we can't prevent them, then we have to respond (but IMO thats not the simplest way or ideal).

School shootings- Prevent them from happening, vs focus on how to respond
Injury In the gym - Focus on preventing them (stretching, good form, not shit low reps) vs responding to them (surgery, deca, healing peptides, PT)
Securing your house - Get an alarm system or live in a safe neighborhood, vs figuring what your going to do when someone breaks in

Some people will say in this case blood pressure medicine is preventative, I don't agree I think it would be a response. You can't control your blood pressure, so you respond by taking medicine. The preventive stuff would be less AAS, better diet, lose a few lbs, do more cardio. This has worked for me so im not just talking about my ass, ive had high readings.

Im not saying that a guy who is dead set on being 260 can get away with being preventative he's going to have to respond to his high blood pressure and take a drug/medicine to prevent it from harming him.

But guys 190,205lbs, or 220 walking around at 16% bulking up to 250 who should be cutting as he's just getting fat, those type of people could probably still prevent themselves from needing medicine in the first place. And the preventative strategies (lifestyle changes other than drugs) will have added health benefits in addition to just lowering BP and putting less stress on the heart and kidneys.

But again, im focusing on the PED users/ "bodybuilders" who are smaller or put more emphasis on health. You say bodybuilding isn't healthy and it isn't, but it can be more healthy. Or we can balance our health and our physique goals to put it a different way. I don't believe that every person who lives a bodybuilding lifestyle (some degree of AAS use, hard training, diet) HAS to be unhealthy or on medication.

The main thing I disagree with are the posts where people say "every PED user should be on BP medication" I've seen this repeated many times. Now if there is one particular drug that is helpful to kidneys id be more than interested in seeing evidence or hearing about it as im open to learning. Me personally im more worried about my kidneys because I know I can control my BP without medication and still use PED (as can many) but kidneys at least in my opinion are more complicated. I've seen people say telmisartin is protective for the kidneys, but is this also in people that have normal blood pressure?

Really? All that? We're talking about a health PRECAUTION not a liability. This isn't Adderall or Klonopin. It's blood pressure (angiotensin) medication.

I agree @qbkilla , the pill-popping culture has its perils. And it's very concerning. But pills and real food are just a few chemical processes apart now. Insulin (human) vs Aspirin - which most acts like a drug? Pineapples vs bromelain, grapefruit vs naringin.

Going to be a fun few years...

 

[BLang]

I'm on phone plan to respond to your and heavy hitters post on why I think In general we as w society are using way to many prescription drugs, so give me a minute...but you seem fixated on me thinking taking a new drug medication being a big decision I think I answered you atlest once once yet you harp on it, it's kind of wierd.

You do realize that terms like smart, dumb, fat are subjective? So is " a big decision". What is a big decision is subjective. Taking AAS, getting a new roommate, taking a new medicine, starting a new diet, choosing a physical therapist to heal an injury, choosing a primary care doctor...using an anti e or not, using a little slim, bulking or cutting....how shall we categorize all these decisions as big or small? Couldn't be possible we may categorize them differently since they are subjective? If this doesn't answer your question in addition to my previous answer I can't help you. Lol.

Like I said, the crux of the issue is just that you have an aversion to anything you consider a "drug", and are drawing a hard line at something that's a prescription or you'd classify as such.

In reality, "drugs" have a wide, wide, WIDE range of risk/benefit/cost ratios and drawing a hard line at some place in an arbitrary place in the sand is a mistake IMO.

Telmisartan is absolutely a compound that sits far, far on the reward side of things vs the risk side, even though its a "prescription drug" which carries "serious" connotations.

I spend as much time as anyone arguing against the dependency on more compounds/drugs in this space, but I don't draw a hard line in the sand like you're doing. And honestly, you're missing the forest for the trees when you do that. Just IMO of course.

 

[qbkilla]

Really? All that? We're talking about a health PRECAUTION not a liability. This isn't Adderall or Klonopin. It's blood pressure (angiotensin) medication.

I agree @qbkilla , the pill-popping culture has its perils. And it's very concerning. But pills and real food are just a few chemical processes apart now. Insulin (human) vs Aspirin - which most acts like a drug? Pineapples vs bromelain, grapefruit vs naringin.

Going to be a fun few years...

I definitely acknowledge the difference between BP meds and something like Adderall or Xanax , but like you said "pill popping culture" is something that is a pet peeve of Mine.

I feel we should ideally try to control BP, cholesterol, etc without needing medication. But yes If we can't do this, or are unwilling to, or aspire to be huge then it's needed.

I just feel like some guys like me (weight can fluctuate from 180-215); easily could potentially not need to be on any medicine but are quick to jump on them because they see much bigger guys doing it. A 250 lb bodybuilder will need a few meds, a guy who wants to look good to be vein and chase ass can doesn't need 1g of test and probably shouldn't need medication.

About a year ago I was working a stressfull job and my BP was way higher than it should be like 145/94, rather than researching meds and scheduling appointments I wrote resumes and got myself the hell out of there. I just think guys especially who don't compete should atlest consider "What am I doing to make my BP this high" vs "What can I take to decrease my BP."

 

[qbkilla]

Like I said, the crux of the issue is just that you have an aversion to anything you consider a "drug", and are drawing a hard line at something that's a prescription or you'd classify as such.

In reality, "drugs" have a wide, wide, WIDE range of risk/benefit/cost ratios and drawing a hard line at some place in an arbitrary place in the sand is a mistake IMO.

Telmisartan is absolutely a compound that sits far, far on the reward side of things vs the risk side, even though its a "prescription drug" which carries "serious" connotations.

I spend as much time as anyone arguing against the dependency on more compounds/drugs in this space, but I don't draw a hard line in the sand like you're doing. And honestly, you're missing the forest for the trees when you do that. Just IMO of course.

I somewhat see your point but I also have the same view on supplements (guys taking 25 pills from the vitamin shoppe thinking they will make a difference when they won't even go to PT for their labrum tear). Maybe it's because I used to be that guy when I started lifting it was 30 different supplements but my knowledge of training was shit. Looking back every pill I took did nothing and now I fare better taking a hand full of things and training and eating much better. I've had family and co workers brag about their list of miracle medsand how great they are, and how everyone should look into them...while sitting there overweight and living a sedentary lifestyle. I'd just roll my eyes and say "why don't you just lose some weight or exercise so you don't need all those pills?" So obviously that has a influenced my view on how as society we use drugs as a crutch sometimes.

 

[NovaPharma]

ARBS are almost a must if your on gear even with a little high bp

 

[johnjuanb1]

Just recently went to the doc and blood work was really good. Only thing that was somewhat out of range was blood pressure. It was 141/80. It’s normally in that range. But my doc hasn’t said anything about a blood pressure med. what your opinion? Would you ask about maybe getting put on a beta blocker to prevent any future problems from it ?

I could have sworn I replied to this post but I don’t see my reply so it was probably a similar thread on another forum. No way would I take blood pressure drugs for 141/80. The bottom number is most important and your’s is perfect. The top number can easily be lowered with dietary changes and cardio. I see all these guys thinking it’s a good idea to get on telmisartan when they don’t have an issue. All drugs had negatives aspects. Why take a drug when you can lower blood pressure by eating cleaner. Telmisartan did absolutely nothing for my blood pressure. I tried several doses from low to high for a couple months. When I seized the drug my blood pressure improved slightly. This mentality is the same as several years ago when everyone was adding metformin when they didn’t need it. “The fountain of youth, blah blah blah. Right, and some of those guys are no longer with us. I’m all about using anabolics obviously, but adding a bunch of other drugs is just that, adding more drugs for your body to deal with. It’s unnecessary unless you truly have the health issue the drug was intended to be used for.

 

[BLang]

Sigh.

 

[beast405]

What about any of this is natural? Guys are injecting unnatural substances to get big and strong, and have to use ancillaries to mitigate sides. How is using telmisartan to combat bp issues any different than using aromasin to combat e2 issues? Unmitigated high blood pressure is THE number one health issue facing your average steroid user

Great point bro.

 

[beast405]

You say “we as a society”….but we’re not talking about society. We’re talking about bodybuilders. We’re societal outliers. Using AAS and other drugs to gain unnatural amounts of size has ramifications, and some of them, like high bp have to be mitigated, or they cause long term and permanent, and even fatal consequences. It’s part of the game. And of all the things we can take, the one with the best cost to benefit ration is going to be telmisartan. You view everything from a “health” standpoint. But it’s not that simple. Bodybuilding isn’t “healthy” but we can do things like controlling blood pressure during our endeavor to mitigate damage. If we were really just health focused….we wouldn’t be abusing steroids in the first place.

Great points brother. I believe this telmisartan at 20mg can only help me to be honest. Like you said if we were really health focused we wouldn’t be using and abusing bodybuilding drugs.

 

[beast405]

I

I somewhat see your point but I also have the same view on supplements (guys taking 25 pills from the vitamin shoppe thinking they will make a difference when they won't even go to PT for their labrum tear). Maybe it's because I used to be that guy when I started lifting it was 30 different supplements but my knowledge of training was shit. Looking back every pill I took did nothing and now I fare better taking a hand full of things and training and eating much better. I've had family and co workers brag about their list of miracle medsand how great they are, and how everyone should look into them...while sitting there overweight and living a sedentary lifestyle. I'd just roll my eyes and say "why don't you just lose some weight or exercise so you don't need all those pills?" So obviously that has a influenced my view on how as society we use drugs as a crutch sometimes.

I agree with you that society does tend to use drugs as a crutch. But like I said I’ve used and abused bodybuilding supps for so long I don’t think that telmisartan can hurt. After talking with my doc today he agreed that it would be good for me to take and really benefit me in the long run. I always have kept him in the loop with what cycles I use etc.

 

[beast405]

Cool. I wouldn't hesitate to add Telmisartan and go from there, low dose Nebivolol optional depending on your resting heart rate.

Yeah my blood pressure has been a tad bit higher than it is now before. I’m not too far from 30. It’s been high off and on since I was around 20 or so. Plus it runs in my family. My doc really believes it will benefit me in the long run.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

I somewhat see your point but I also have the same view on supplements (guys taking 25 pills from the vitamin shoppe thinking they will make a difference when they won't even go to PT for their labrum tear). Maybe it's because I used to be that guy when I started lifting it was 30 different supplements but my knowledge of training was shit. Looking back every pill I took did nothing and now I fare better taking a hand full of things and training and eating much better. I've had family and co workers brag about their list of miracle medsand how great they are, and how everyone should look into them...while sitting there overweight and living a sedentary lifestyle. I'd just roll my eyes and say "why don't you just lose some weight or exercise so you don't need all those pills?" So obviously that has a influenced my view on how as society we use drugs as a crutch sometimes.

So really you just have an issue with their lifestyle

i’ll be completely honest i don’t like the fatties either , BUT…..
in reality whats the difference if they get their shit together via pills or lifestyle change? Very few “general populace“ adults can commit to a drastic lifestyle change. Doctors are well aware of this, hence the pills. If doctors waited for their patients to change their lifestyle before prescribing meds, their patients would start dropping like flies.

i‘m all for people who can’t or won’t change their lifestyle to be healthier getting their shit together via meds. Less burden on the healthcare system, their families, and as a consequence society as a whole.


sidenote- very interested in what the 30 supplements you were taking that weren’t doing anything

 

[qbkilla]

So really you just have an issue with their lifestyle

i’ll be completely honest i don’t like the fatties either , BUT…..
in reality whats the difference if they get their shit together via pills or lifestyle change? Very few “general populace“ adults can commit to a drastic lifestyle change. Doctors are well aware of this, hence the pills. If doctors waited for their patients to change their lifestyle before prescribing meds, their patients would start dropping like flies.

i‘m all for people who can’t or won’t change their lifestyle to be healthier getting their shit together via meds. Less burden on the healthcare system, their families, and as a consequence society as a whole.


sidenote- very interested in what the 30 supplements you were taking that weren’t doing anything

I may have exaggerated but it was 30 pills I remember counting, not so much supplements but individual pills...

Vit C
MV
Vit D
Vit E
Magnesium
Zinc
Creatinine
Beta Alanine
NOW Dextrose or Malto or something
Hydro Whey
Casien
Ephedra
Caffeine
Aspirin (ECY)
ALA
Yohimbine (not with fasted cardio this was before that was the protocol)
later changed to R-ALA
Fish Oil
2-3 different peptides
IGF Peptide when it first came out (which probably wasn't IGF)
Glycerin pre-workout
Leptigen to raise my leptin LOL (Avantlabs product 2024)

Thats probably all that I can think of in terms of pills/vitamins/supplments/things other than AAS and food. Sure the fish oil and vitamins may have been healthy at some level, but I can't say that id be any worse off health or physique wise today had I bought none of that. I thought all those things would make a difference and my training and diet were fine. Looking back, my training sucked (intensity and form on certain exercises).

 

[jeroendebleser]

I've often read and heard how telmisartan does more good than just lowering blood pressure. However, my blood pressure is fine. I'm between 110-120 over 60-75. I would like to see my RHR a little lower as since jumping on HGH it's somewhere low to mid 70's during the day. I guess it would not be wise to add Telmi right? It seems to me my BP would get on the low side by adding it..

I'm 1.90 at 106 kg and roughly 8% btw, on 6 IU hgh, 1200 test and 900 Bold.

Don't quote me on this but the chances of your BP dropping too low by adding it in are slim.

The only thing that is likely to happen is that you'll have to be careful when quickly standing up (you can get dizzy and fall) but that's a nuisance rather than a big issue.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

I may have exaggerated but it was 30 pills I remember counting, not so much supplements but individual pills...

Vit C
MV
Vit D
Vit E
Magnesium
Zinc
Creatinine
Beta Alanine
NOW Dextrose or Malto or something
Hydro Whey
Casien
Ephedra
Caffeine
Aspirin (ECY)
ALA
Yohimbine (not with fasted cardio this was before that was the protocol)
later changed to R-ALA
Fish Oil
2-3 different peptides
IGF Peptide when it first came out (which probably wasn't IGF)
Glycerin pre-workout
Leptigen to raise my leptin LOL (Avantlabs product 2024)

Thats probably all that I can think of in terms of pills/vitamins/supplments/things other than AAS and food. Sure the fish oil and vitamins may have been healthy at some level, but I can't say that id be any worse off health or physique wise today had I bought none of that. I thought all those things would make a difference and my training and diet were fine. Looking back, my training sucked (intensity and form on certain exercises).

you’re right that some of that stuff is benign, but some of it i would def have kept taking. They might not make a noticeable difference that you can feel, but the health effects are there. I bolded the stuff i would have kept

If it’s because of the inconvenience of taking a bunch of things, you can def get a multi w C, and D. There’s the version of creatine bonded to magnesium, caffeine, ala, and fish oil would prob be separate tho.

I 100% feel shittier if i skip my multi for a few days. It’s the vitacost version of Country Life Max for men
they usually run coupons and i stock up

https://www.vitacost.com/aro-vitacost-3x-black-series-mens-opti-vitamin

Would love to be able to take the country life version, just too expensive