Quads 3x/week?

[1234trew]

Your in your 40's - chasing logbook progression only ends one way and that is by serious injury. Is a little bit more muscle at this stage of your life worth the issues that it will later bring?

 

[Baphomet36]

Your in your 40's - chasing logbook progression only ends one way and that is by serious injury. Is a little bit more muscle at this stage of your life worth the issues that it will later bring?

There’s many ways to chase the log book. More reps, sets, tut, decrease rest periods.
It also doesn’t have to be low reps.
Could be 20-30 reps.
Do you think these types of progression will definitely lead to injury?

 

[Flex500]

Your in your 40's - chasing logbook progression only ends one way and that is by serious injury. Is a little bit more muscle at this stage of your life worth the issues that it will later bring?

I think it’s about what chasing the logbook means. You can chase a million different ways rest times, high reps, etc.

I’ve been chasing the logbook harder than ever on squats but I added one all out set of failure of sissy squats right before it.

You can also chase the log with training density ie how many times can I deadlift 405 in 10 minutes.

Millions ways to chase it as you get older. But you are right, you do have to think of the logbook differently.

 

[FastLife23]

You do know countless powerlifters, professional female BBs, and the old school guys chasing size did legs 2-3x per week….

You make silly quips.

Fortitude training has 3x a week legs and it’s pretty amazing.

Day 1 is 2-3 loading sets per muscle .think 6-10 reps heavy sets.

Day two is 1-3 muscle rounds per muscle . A muscle round is 6 sets of 4 mini sets, (clusters)

Day 3 is usually 1-3 brutal pump sets per muscle group, (think partials, or just a really hard straight set of 18-25 reps)

Wait jay cutler Phil heath Ronnie did legs 3 times a week ? Please show me proof lmao stfu with this nonsense

 

[Baphomet36]

Wait jay cutler Phil heath Ronnie did legs 3 times a week ? Please show me proof lmao stfu with this nonsense

Who said anything about Jay and Ronnie? Wtf are you on about?

 

[FastLife23]

You guys should stop feeding the trolls. FastLife23 is another one. He's been here a week and he knows everything too.

Yo momma a troll

 

[FastLife23]

Who said anything about Jay and Ronnie? Wtf are you on about?

Exactly my point thank you! Jay and Ronnie didn’t train legs 3 times a week so If you need to train 3 times a week you don’t know how to train legs

 

[Baphomet36]

Exactly my point thank you! Jay and Ronnie didn’t train legs 3 times a week so If you need to train 3 times a week you don’t know how to train legs

Would you post a picture of your legs?

 

[alfresco]

I like your style sir.

Where/when (if at all) do you think you cross the barrier of being more cardiovascular focused/GPP/general training vs something that will truly produce a tissue adding adaptation? Out simpler, that would be excruciatingly hard but any concern on if it will cause enough mechanical tension as much lighter loads would be needed?

I struggle a bit with would it possibly be better to do something where you could increase the weight/mechanical tension a bit?

I’m doing full body 3-4 times a week and hitting legs in the general fashion you are speaking of (not quite to that extent) 2-3 of those days.

I retrospect, with the advantage of time, reflection, and rereading my post, I would up the rest time to maybe a couple of minutes, no more than 3. See below.

Tenny told me about the other routine. He credited his leg development to this and his leg development was substantial

I remember weight training for my black belt on karate (a prerequisite). My Sensei was so intimidating that when I saw him come workout time my pulse would race, my blood pressure would increase and I would breakout in a cold sweat. You showed up with a quart of milk (raw if you could find it, I could) which you had to consume during your workout.

Squats were always 1st. on the agenda, 3 sets of twenty squats, alternating with your partner of the day. You could not stand up immediately after a set, your legs would be trembling. And these were breathing squats, 3 deep breadths between reps. A long lost way of squatting

Then we started what remained of the upper body, torture again but very brief.

I remember seeing a friend of mine after being gone all summer and he had been working with him while I was gone. In those 3 months I literally did not recognize him. His improvement was that dramatic. Was it the weights or the intimidation factor? I still not sure to this day. But every summer he would grow and grow. He eventually got kicked out of school for knocking out the football coach. Not the smartest thing to do but then again he was not the smartest tool in the shed.

More to come on the cardio aspect.

I’m upping my frequency and doing a torso day and a limbs day so I’ll be doing them 3x a week.
1 set to failure. Adding sets as I adapt
Itll be
Day 1 Sissy hack squat 8-12
Day 2 standing leg ext 12-15
Day 3 leg extensions 15-20

Below is the standing leg ext

Never seen such a machine. Would love to try one!

At one point in time there was talk of a leg extension machine / glut machine but the metabolic cost was deemed too great. But the one pictured looks like one as near as I can tell. If anybody has used one I would appreciate an opinion.

I too do a upper body / lower body split, a day off in between when I am not doing full body workouts every other day.

 

[Flex500]

I retrospect, with the advantage of time, reflection, and rereading my post, I would up the rest time to maybe a couple of minutes, no more than 3. See below.

Tenny told me about the other routine. He credited his leg development to this and his leg development was substantial

I remember weight training for my black belt on karate (a prerequisite). My Sensei was so intimidating that when I saw him come workout time my pulse would race, my blood pressure would increase and I would breakout in a cold sweat. You showed up with a quart of milk (raw if you could find it, I could) which you had to consume during your workout.

Squats were always 1st. on the agenda, 3 sets of twenty squats, alternating with your partner of the day. You could not stand up immediately after a set, your legs would be trembling. And these were breathing squats, 3 deep breadths between reps. A long lost way of squatting

Then we started what remained of the upper body, torture again but very brief.

I remember seeing a friend of mine after being gone all summer and he had been working with him while I was gone. In those 3 months I literally did not recognize him. His improvement was that dramatic. Was it the weights or the intimidation factor? I still not sure to this day. But every summer he would grow and grow. He eventually got kicked out of school for knocking out the football coach. Not the smartest thing to do but then again he was not the smartest tool in the shed.

More to come on the cardio aspect.

Never seen such a machine. Would love to try one!

At one point in time there was talk of a leg extension machine / glut machine but the metabolic cost was deemed too great. But the one pictured looks like one as near as I can tell. If anybody has used one I would appreciate an opinion.

I too do a upper body / lower body split, a day off in between when I am not doing full body workouts every other day.

Very good sir thank you for sharing! I’m going to do that tomorrow to start my full body session!

 

[Baphomet36]

I retrospect, with the advantage of time, reflection, and rereading my post, I would up the rest time to maybe a couple of minutes, no more than 3. See below.

Tenny told me about the other routine. He credited his leg development to this and his leg development was substantial

I remember weight training for my black belt on karate (a prerequisite). My Sensei was so intimidating that when I saw him come workout time my pulse would race, my blood pressure would increase and I would breakout in a cold sweat. You showed up with a quart of milk (raw if you could find it, I could) which you had to consume during your workout.

Squats were always 1st. on the agenda, 3 sets of twenty squats, alternating with your partner of the day. You could not stand up immediately after a set, your legs would be trembling. And these were breathing squats, 3 deep breadths between reps. A long lost way of squatting

Then we started what remained of the upper body, torture again but very brief.

I remember seeing a friend of mine after being gone all summer and he had been working with him while I was gone. In those 3 months I literally did not recognize him. His improvement was that dramatic. Was it the weights or the intimidation factor? I still not sure to this day. But every summer he would grow and grow. He eventually got kicked out of school for knocking out the football coach. Not the smartest thing to do but then again he was not the smartest tool in the shed.

More to come on the cardio aspect.

Never seen such a machine. Would love to try one!

At one point in time there was talk of a leg extension machine / glut machine but the metabolic cost was deemed too great. But the one pictured looks like one as near as I can tell. If anybody has used one I would appreciate an opinion.

I too do a upper body / lower body split, a day off in between when I am not doing full body workouts every other day.

Thats gotta be it.
Monday will be my first time ever using it.
It’ll probably take me a couple of weeks to really get it down.
Im interested to see how it’ll feel on my knees

 

[angus62]

I was a competitive weightlifter and we squatted three times a week. Back squats two days (one day was paused back squats) and front squats on the other. I don’t know if it’s the best thing for leg size but it did work for strength. It’s going to be trial and error. One person will tell you to only train them once and another multiple. What works best for you and also what you enjoy doing.

 

[alfresco]

Thats gotta be it.
Monday will be my first time ever using it.
It’ll probably take me a couple of weeks to really get it down.
Im interested to see how it’ll feel on my knees

If it’s the 10 x 20 x 10 be advised you will have to reduce the weight more than you might think. And you may not be able to walk for a day or two.

 

[Joltan]

When I trained legs 3x per week I packed on a TON of size. My legs responded really well to it.

All of the current science/studies have shown that higher volume is superior to lower volume, and nobody really knows the upper limit (if any) for weekly training. For the daily upper limit they have found that after 6-8 sets per session that you start to get diminishing returns. At that point if you want more volume you split it up and add another day.

If you recover really well (drugs, genetics, whatever) you can push this a little bit too. So, just because a bodybuilder became Mr. O and does 1x per week training, it doesn't mean it's the most optimal. Jay and Phil did a lot of volume, and didn't limit themselves to 6-8 sets per week. For example, Phil did 21 sets for his back (in one session)... that is the same as someone doing 6 sets per session over 3-4x per week. I don't think that includes the FST-7's or whatever he does for the final set - that would add several more sets as well. So, they are still doing just as much volume... but are able to fit it into one day if they like because they are able to recover from it due to drugs (and genetics at that level). It doesn't mean it is more effective than 2-3-4x per week training. Individuals that are not 'enhanced' or 'gift' type genetics have a falloff of results after 6 sets per session.

 

[Baphomet36]

When I trained legs 3x per week I packed on a TON of size. My legs responded really well to it.

All of the current science/studies have shown that higher volume is superior to lower volume, and nobody really knows the upper limit (if any) for weekly training. For the daily upper limit they have found that after 6-8 sets per session that you start to get diminishing returns. At that point if you want more volume you split it up and add another day.

If you recover really well (drugs, genetics, whatever) you can push this a little bit too. So, just because a bodybuilder became Mr. O and does 1x per week training, it doesn't mean it's the most optimal. Jay and Phil did a lot of volume, and didn't limit themselves to 6-8 sets per week. For example, Phil did 21 sets for his back (in one session)... that is the same as someone doing 6 sets per session over 3-4x per week. I don't think that includes the FST-7's or whatever he does for the final set - that would add several more sets as well. So, they are still doing just as much volume... but are able to fit it into one day if they like because they are able to recover from it due to drugs (and genetics at that level). It doesn't mean it is more effective than 2-3-4x per week training. Individuals that are not 'enhanced' or 'gift' type genetics have a falloff of results after 6 sets per session.

No they have not concluded that higher volume is superior to lower volume.
Volume is not the primary driver of growth. I dont care what Mike isratel or anyone else who is trying to sell a program says

 

[Joltan]

No they have not concluded that higher volume is superior to lower volume.
Volume is not the primary driver of growth. I dont care what Mike isratel or anyone else who is trying to sell a program says

Who said anything about Mike Isratel or someone trying to sell a program.

I care what hundreds (if not thousands) of peer reviewed studies and meta studies say. You can do whatever type of training you like though.. I could care less what you do or think.

 

[Baphomet36]

Who said anything about Mike Isratel or someone trying to sell a program.

I care what hundreds of peer reviewed studies and meta studies say. You can do whatever type of training you like though.. I could care less what you do or think.

Buddy mechanical tension is the driver not volume.
You can do volume all day without mechanical tension, without those hard reps nothing will grow.
Muscle growth happens because of an adaption to stress (load).
You can read studies but interpreting them is a different story
Apparently you could care less about what causes growth as well
Also phil did not do 21 working sets for back.

 

[Joltan]

Buddy mechanical tension is the driver not volume.
You can do volume all day without mechanical tension, without those hard reps nothing will grow.
Muscle growth happens because of an adaption to stress (load).
You can read studies but interpreting them is a different story
Apparently you could care less about what causes growth as well

Mechanical tension has absolutely nothing to do with volume. Do you think muscle growth happens without effort?

Mechanical tension is the driver of growth (of course) - but not without volume. I said high volume is superior to low volume. WTF are you talking about...

I honestly don't even know why I'm taking the time to respond to you... or even post any of these studies. There are literally probably another thousand but I'm not going to spend another second arguing with someone who clearly knows nothing about weight training...




Schoenfeld B.J., Ogborn D., Krieger J.W. Dose-response relationship between weekly resistance training volume and increases in muscle mass: A systematic review and meta-analysis. J. Sports Sci. 2017;35:1073–1082. doi: 10.1080/02640414.2016.1210197. [PubMed] [CrossRef] [Google Scholar]

Schoenfeld B.J., Contreras B., Krieger J., Grgic J., Delcastillo K., Belliard R., Alto A. Resistance Training Volume Enhances Muscle Hypertrophy. Med. Sci. Sports Exerc. 2019;51:94. doi: 10.1249/MSS.0000000000001764. [PMC free article] [PubMed] [CrossRef] [Google Scholar]

Wolfe B.L., Lemura L.M., Cole P.J. Quantitative analysis of single- vs, multiple-set programs in resistence training. J. Strength Cond. Res. 2004;18:35–47. [PubMed] [Google Scholar]

Terzis G., Spengos K., Mascher H., Georgiadis G., Manta P., Blomstrand E. The degree of p70 S6k and S6 phosphorylation in human skeletal muscle in response to resistance exercise depends on the training volume. Eur. J. Appl. Physiol. 2010;110:835–843. doi: 10.1007/s00421-010-1527-2. [PubMed] [CrossRef] [Google Scholar]

Krieger J.W. Single vs. Multiple Sets of Resistance Exercise for Muscle Hypertrophy: A Meta-Analysis. J. Strength Cond. Res. 2010;24:1150–1159. doi: 10.1519/JSC.0b013e3181d4d436. [PubMed] [CrossRef] [Google Scholar]

 

[Baphomet36]

Mechanical tension has absolutely nothing to do with volume. Do you think muscle growth happens without effort?

Mechanical tension is the driver of growth (of course) - but not without volume.

I honestly don't even know why I'm taking the time to respond to you... or even post any of these studies. There are literally probably another thousand but I'm not going to spend another second arguing with someone who clearly knows nothing about weight training...




Schoenfeld B.J., Ogborn D., Krieger J.W. Dose-response relationship between weekly resistance training volume and increases in muscle mass: A systematic review and meta-analysis. J. Sports Sci. 2017;35:1073–1082. doi: 10.1080/02640414.2016.1210197. [PubMed] [CrossRef] [Google Scholar]

Schoenfeld B.J., Contreras B., Krieger J., Grgic J., Delcastillo K., Belliard R., Alto A. Resistance Training Volume Enhances Muscle Hypertrophy. Med. Sci. Sports Exerc. 2019;51:94. doi: 10.1249/MSS.0000000000001764. [PMC free article] [PubMed] [CrossRef] [Google Scholar]

Wolfe B.L., Lemura L.M., Cole P.J. Quantitative analysis of single- vs, multiple-set programs in resistence training. J. Strength Cond. Res. 2004;18:35–47. [PubMed] [Google Scholar]

Terzis G., Spengos K., Mascher H., Georgiadis G., Manta P., Blomstrand E. The degree of p70 S6k and S6 phosphorylation in human skeletal muscle in response to resistance exercise depends on the training volume. Eur. J. Appl. Physiol. 2010;110:835–843. doi: 10.1007/s00421-010-1527-2. [PubMed] [CrossRef] [Google Scholar]

Krieger J.W. Single vs. Multiple Sets of Resistance Exercise for Muscle Hypertrophy: A Meta-Analysis. J. Strength Cond. Res. 2010;24:1150–1159. doi: 10.1519/JSC.0b013e3181d4d436. [PubMed] [CrossRef] [Google Scholar]

Effort is literally how close you are to failure which is those hard sets which are needed for growth.
Effort has nothing to do with volume
Do you understand the limitations with those studies?
I agree I won’t spend another second arguing with someone who doesn’t know how to read a study

 

[Joltan]

Effort is literally how close you are to failure which is those hard sets which are needed for growth.
Do you understand the limitations with those studies?
I agree I won’t spend another second arguing with someone who doesn’t know how to read a study

Literally all of these studies are talking about each set being either to failure or up to 4 reps in reserve (0-4 RIR). How much harder do you go than that? I need to know how you are training.

Done with you...