High or low volume training?

[TheOtherOne55]

Good stuff and I agree. It's probably best to have those heavy sets to progress but also some volume pump work.

I guess the question would be,, what is the best way to split it?

Upper heavy
Lower heavy
Upper pump
Lower pump
(Similar to fortitude or a phul program

Or the bro split where we have

Chest Day
Incline bench 1 set rest paused
Pump work

Arm Day
Cgbp 1 set rest paused
Db curls 1 set rest paused
Then pump time for bis and Tris

That becomes a frequency discussion then, rather than a volume one (although they are a bit intertwined)

I had been doing JPs PPL split for yearrsss....the only reason I changed to bro split is because my overall time in the gym was getting insane.
I have a full demanding 9-5 and i need to be lead work calls all the time. So i cannot be in the gym for close to 2hrs. A bro split has allowed me to be in for 40-70 mins easy.
Maybe when my schedule gets less demanding, ill change back...but my progress has continued regardless.

 

[qbkilla]

That becomes a frequency discussion then, rather than a volume one (although they are a bit intertwined)

I had been doing JPs PPL split for yearrsss....the only reason I changed to bro split is because my overall time in the gym was getting insane.
I have a full demanding 9-5 and i need to be lead work calls all the time. So i cannot be in the gym for close to 2hrs. A bro split has allowed me to be in for 40-70 mins easy.
Maybe when my schedule gets less demanding, ill change back...but my progress has continued regardless.

I'm in the same boat, 8-4 and take insulin pre and post so don't want to be in the gym at 8pm
I set my phone alarm for 1 hour when I enter, it goes off, I need to get moving. Ppl, full body, with the warm up sets and extreme stretches, it's all night in the gym. Bro split just makes sense

I have been lowering chest and back volume and hitting some tri and bi on those days. Getting the parts I want to bring up 2x frequency at the expense of some chest and back work. Putting traps on leg day to keep shoulder day under 80 minutes.

 

[marssel]

How many sets are you doing per body part and are they all to failure

There are a lot to failure and usually 2-3 drop sets depending on what body part. Again set count could be 30 plus on arm day but off hand leg day would be like 20-25 but that’s with flute work and I do a lot of leg extensions like 5 sets maybe some singles so the basics are still there but once fatigued I’ll play around with just chasing a pump and have fun. That said if I’m super dieted down or feeling shitty I’ll chk the major boxes and get out I listen to my body and don’t force bad days to be more than they should. I know this is kinda vague but I’ll say this, everyone that’s trained with me be it a beginner or veteran they all say “fuck this is fun I didn’t know I could go this deep into my body” Shit bro I don’t count reps on a lot of my sets bc I’m focused on the feel and just going.

 

[johnjuanb1]

How many sets

I’m doing chest now.
- 4 sets dumbbell flies
- 4 sets feet elevated push-ups
- 3 sets wide grip push-ups
- 3 sets semi-narrow grip push-ups
- 4 sets barbell pullovers superset with 4 sets barbell chest press
- 4 sets cable flies hands low, mid chest, and up high.

 

[tornquad201]

I’m doing chest now.
- 4 sets dumbbell flies
- 4 sets feet elevated push-ups
- 3 sets wide grip push-ups
- 3 sets semi-narrow grip push-ups
- 4 sets barbell pullovers superset with 4 sets barbell chest press
- 4 sets cable flies hands low, mid chest, and up high.

All reps to failure

 

[johnjuanb1]

Before switching from low volume to high did you first try to increase rep range? That could always be an option, continue to do a low number of intense sets but easier on joints

Low sets feels like I’m cheating myself out of good workout. My workouts are just as much for my mind as for my body. I have depression issues that a good long workout tends to help just enough to get me to the next day.

 

[johnjuanb1]

All reps to failure

Yes, within reason. I won’t sacrifice perfect form to get extra reps.

 

[qbkilla]

Low sets feels like I’m cheating myself out of good workout. My workouts are just as much for my mind as for my body. I have depression issues that a good long workout tends to help just enough to get me to the next day.

This makes sense. When dieting I would enjoy long workouts just to be in the gym 2 hours and not think about hunger or eating. If I ever go on a rough diet I'll probably give JP EOD full body a go. 2-3 hours, no food to tease me lol. Or Layne Norton phate, that thing took me forever to do with all the different exercises.

 

[BIG1512]

I do both. I do 20-25 sets per session over 5-8 exercises. The first 2-3 exercises are heavy/HIT style, but if I do more than that my joints go to shit pretty quickly. After that, I switch to a TUT/lower rest approach for the rest of the session. Lots of tempo work and pulse reps, usually stopping 1-2 shy of failure. I'm not saying it is the best way, but it allows me to stay consistent, which is the most important factor in BB.

Same thing I have been doing myself. How many times a week are you training each bp?

 

[Flex500]

Time is essentially the most critical aspect for me and I feel like I'm solving a 1,000 piece puzzle. I have a newborn at home (which is getting easier) but I am an executive at a large medical device company and work 60 hours a week with a sky high stress job, have a 10 year old and 11 week old, and just super busy all around. Just quick caveat. I'm nothing special and the above isn't intended to sound like I am...we all have our own crap going on.

I have a home gym when I'm not traveling and I can only get to the gym 3 days a week and that is hard. Every 3-4 weeks I'll have a week I can do 4 workouts...that is not common though.

For me I go back and forth between full body and PPL. I can do full body in an hour but I really have to limit it to 1 set to failure and only about 6 total movements. Squats/deadlift/bench/bbrow/leg press/dips and that's it...so I'm missing a lot but at least get 3x a week frequency.

I'm back to PPL because although frequency is lower, I can do more volume and each workout is only about 40 minutes.

I don't want to turn the thread but I'm really interested in what some of you do with families, high intensity work (don't care if it's blue or white collar), and just insanely busy lives.


I'm to the point I plan my entire day from 7am to 9pm in 15 minute increments...

 

[astrosfan123]

That becomes a frequency discussion then, rather than a volume one (although they are a bit intertwined)

I had been doing JPs PPL split for yearrsss....the only reason I changed to bro split is because my overall time in the gym was getting insane.
I have a full demanding 9-5 and i need to be lead work calls all the time. So i cannot be in the gym for close to 2hrs. A bro split has allowed me to be in for 40-70 mins easy.
Maybe when my schedule gets less demanding, ill change back...but my progress has continued regardless.

im beginning to get the same way. Schedule change at work for just a temp 6 months until new hire ready to go. I am probably going to go back to the bro split like you just because you dont have to warm up multiple different muscles every workout so that automatically makes them shorter. Is your bro split the basic 5 day one or how does that look? and does that mean im guessing you are doing muscle group 1x per group so is your volume higher now too to equate for less frequency?

 

[Cerberus777]

Time is essentially the most critical aspect for me and I feel like I'm solving a 1,000 piece puzzle. I have a newborn at home (which is getting easier) but I am an executive at a large medical device company and work 60 hours a week with a sky high stress job, have a 10 year old and 11 week old, and just super busy all around. Just quick caveat. I'm nothing special and the above isn't intended to sound like I am...we all have our own crap going on.

I have a home gym when I'm not traveling and I can only get to the gym 3 days a week and that is hard. Every 3-4 weeks I'll have a week I can do 4 workouts...that is not common though.

For me I go back and forth between full body and PPL. I can do full body in an hour but I really have to limit it to 1 set to failure and only about 6 total movements. Squats/deadlift/bench/bbrow/leg press/dips and that's it...so I'm missing a lot but at least get 3x a week frequency.

I'm back to PPL because although frequency is lower, I can do more volume and each workout is only about 40 minutes.

I don't want to turn the thread but I'm really interested in what some of you do with families, high intensity work (don't care if it's blue or white collar), and just insanely busy lives.


I'm to the point I plan my entire day from 7am to 9pm in 15 minute increments...

I essentially have 3 jobs. I have a 9-6 M-F a PT Job in the Evenings Th-S that pays very well. And my own business that this is the slow season but come spring it's slammed and will have to reduce the PT job. I do the DC 2 way with some added work.

 

[Dens228]

Time is essentially the most critical aspect for me and I feel like I'm solving a 1,000 piece puzzle. I have a newborn at home (which is getting easier) but I am an executive at a large medical device company and work 60 hours a week with a sky high stress job, have a 10 year old and 11 week old, and just super busy all around. Just quick caveat. I'm nothing special and the above isn't intended to sound like I am...we all have our own crap going on.

I have a home gym when I'm not traveling and I can only get to the gym 3 days a week and that is hard. Every 3-4 weeks I'll have a week I can do 4 workouts...that is not common though.

For me I go back and forth between full body and PPL. I can do full body in an hour but I really have to limit it to 1 set to failure and only about 6 total movements. Squats/deadlift/bench/bbrow/leg press/dips and that's it...so I'm missing a lot but at least get 3x a week frequency.

I'm back to PPL because although frequency is lower, I can do more volume and each workout is only about 40 minutes.

I don't want to turn the thread but I'm really interested in what some of you do with families, high intensity work (don't care if it's blue or white collar), and just insanely busy lives.


I'm to the point I plan my entire day from 7am to 9pm in 15 minute increments...

I'm past that time in my life but less than 10 years ago I worked from 7:30 until around 5:15, came home to grab a sandwich to eat on the way to my kids practices which I coached, and would get home around 8:30 or 9:00. I coached three sports so it was year round.
I'd get up at 4:45 and workout at 5:30. I did DC training, 2 or 3 way. I tried to get my weekly cycle so that one workout was on Sundays, the only day I didn't have anything.
It was during that time that someone on this forum posted that anyone needing a pre-workout lacked motivation..........I laughed my ass off and replied that he had no idea what real life was like........

 

[qbkilla]

I'm past that time in my life but less than 10 years ago I worked from 7:30 until around 5:15, came home to grab a sandwich to eat on the way to my kids practices which I coached, and would get home around 8:30 or 9:00. I coached three sports so it was year round.
I'd get up at 4:45 and workout at 5:30. I did DC training, 2 or 3 way. I tried to get my weekly cycle so that one workout was on Sundays, the only day I didn't have anything.
It was during that time that someone on this forum posted that anyone needing a pre-workout lacked motivation..........I laughed my ass off and replied that he had no idea what real life was like........

How were your gains on the DC 2 and 3 way? Did you add any additional work for ride rear delts etc?

 

[Dens228]

How were your gains on the DC 2 and 3 way? Did you add any additional work for ride rear delts etc?

I'd say they were equal to most other routines I've used. I still tend to go back and forth between that and Phil's original routine he gave me. I haven't used the 2 way in years though. Even doing DC I tend to stick to just laterals as my shoulders joints are in sad shape form years of abuse in football and being young and dumb thinking I was "working through" the injuries. I didn't add any additional work for DC. I pretty much stuck to the templates.

 

[qbkilla]

I'd say they were equal to most other routines I've used. I still tend to go back and forth between that and Phil's original routine he gave me. I haven't used the 2 way in years though. Even doing DC I tend to stick to just laterals as my shoulders joints are in sad shape form years of abuse in football and being young and dumb thinking I was "working through" the injuries. I didn't add any additional work for DC. I pretty much stuck to the templates.

I do like the 5 way split. Similar to a bro split but you can attack 1-2 lagging parts with 2x a week frequency. Low volume but still takes a good 1hr 20 minutes including warm up sets and extreme stretching.

 

[Dens228]

I do like the 5 way split. Similar to a bro split but you can attack 1-2 lagging parts with 2x a week frequency. Low volume but still takes a good 1hr 20 minutes including warm up sets and extreme stretching.

I've contemplated giving that a run but seem to do better with more frequency per bodypart. Probably more mental than physical though.

 

[comedycentral]

I’m giving an old Paul Carter 350 routine a run.
3 sets to hit 50 reps 1 exercise

day 1
low incline smith 350
pulldown 350
dips

day 2
20 min conditioning then a quick mini session
lateral raises 3 sets 20 reps
face pulls or upright rows 3 sets 20 reps

day 3
leg curl 350
leg press 350
back extension 2-3 sets 15-20

rest day
day 5
shoulder press 350
seated row 350
chin 2-3 sets amrap
machine chest 2-3 sets

day 6
conditioning then mini arm session
curl 3-4 x 20
pushdown same

rest day then repeat
save the joints for a bit. Arms and delts sessions are banded

 

[Cerberus777]

I'd say they were equal to most other routines I've used. I still tend to go back and forth between that and Phil's original routine he gave me. I haven't used the 2 way in years though. Even doing DC I tend to stick to just laterals as my shoulders joints are in sad shape form years of abuse in football and being young and dumb thinking I was "working through" the injuries. I didn't add any additional work for DC. I pretty much stuck to the templates.

I do 1 press and side and rear delts on rotation as well.

 

[qbkilla]

I've been doing 5 days so long thinking i should give 4 days a try

Push heavy
Pull heavy
Off
Legs
Volume day (hit parts I want to bring up with pump work)
Off
Off

Off days get 35 minutes cardio. Volume day would be concentrated on Tris and rear delts. Probably take a weight I can get for 25 then crank out 100, with 5-10 second rests as needed. So volume but still intense.