Alternating high intensity and volume training

[Deleted member 226465]

Hi guys, just trying to get some experience or opinions with the below

Mixing high volume and high intensity training to get the best of both worlds

So for example alternating week to week

High intensity = 5 day density split that I’m sure you guys are aware of (Jordan peters PPL 5 day fixed split)

High volume = single body part over 5 days (chest, back, legs, off, shoulders, arms, off) but say 12-20 sets per body part


My thought process is best of both worlds and gives your body a slight break from max loads and intensity every other week

hopefully as well it may lessen the chance of picking up stuff like tendinitis and lengthen the time before you stall out on an exercise when you’re always trying to adopt the log book approach. Plus it’s mentally less taxing on the higher volume weeks which could be an indirect factor to helping progress.

It would obviously be very person dependent and would take some planning out but on the higher volume weeks you could potentially adopt some of the high insulin protocols Milo’s uses and then with it being every other week may increase the time you can do it for before peaking out with bodyfat etc


Interested to hear any experiences or thoughts in regards to this

 

[luki7788]

Hi guys, just trying to get some experience or opinions with the below

Mixing high volume and high intensity training to get the best of both worlds

So for example alternating week to week

High intensity = 5 day density split that I’m sure you guys are aware of (Jordan peters PPL 5 day fixed split)

High volume = single body part over 5 days (chest, back, legs, off, shoulders, arms, off) but say 12-20 sets per body part


My thought process is best of both worlds and gives your body a slight break from max loads and intensity every other week

hopefully as well it may lessen the chance of picking up stuff like tendinitis and lengthen the time before you stall out on an exercise when you’re always trying to adopt the log book approach. Plus it’s mentally less taxing on the higher volume weeks which could be an indirect factor to helping progress.

It would obviously be very person dependent and would take some planning out but on the higher volume weeks you could potentially adopt some of the high insulin protocols Milo’s uses and then with it being every other week may increase the time you can do it for before peaking out with bodyfat etc


Interested to hear any experiences or thoughts in regards to this

I trained this way exactly and I also think it's a very good way not to burn out

 

[Deleted member 226465]

I trained this way exactly and I also think it's a very good way not to burn out

Thanks for the reply! It obviously worked for you cause you’re massive !

But yeah definitely considering it are there any things you think are worth considering with it or changes etc?

 

[luki7788]

Thanks for the reply! It obviously worked for you cause you’re massive !

But yeah definitely considering it are there any things you think are worth considering with it or changes etc?

I confess the principle - if something works, don't change it until it does the job

 

[Deleted member 226465]

I confess the principle - if something works, don't change it until it does the job

On your higher volume weeks did you track your exercises and weights or just completely instinctive?

 

[luki7788]

On your higher volume weeks did you track your exercises and weights or just completely instinctive?

I always try to do progressive overload in some way - I am currently not training in the way you described and spend most of my time at high volume

 

[BigLittleJoe2]

What would be the benefit of alternating high volume and high intensity week to week vs alternating 2-4 month mesocycles of each?

 

[Deleted member 226465]

What would be the benefit of alternating high volume and high intensity week to week vs alternating 2-4 month mesocycles of each?

Potentially less likely to stall on the logbook style of training I would think but overall I’m not sure

 

[luki7788]

What would be the benefit of alternating high volume and high intensity week to week vs alternating 2-4 month mesocycles of each?

right now i'm training on a similar principle say 8 weeks high volume 4 weeks low volume but I don't have strictly defined periods how much time I work on a given volume and it comes out naturally

for example - i'm doing high volume but i feel like i'm progressing a lot in strength and i can add weights every week so i go to lower volume and train like that until i see progress or i start to feel tendon pain etc then i go back to high volume again

 

[Deleted member 226465]

right now i'm training on a similar principle say 8 weeks high volume 4 weeks low volume but I don't have strictly defined periods how much time I work on a given volume and it comes out naturally

for example - i'm doing high volume but i feel like i'm progressing a lot in strength and i can add weights every week so i go to lower volume and train like that until i see progress or i start to feel tendon pain etc then i go back to high volume again

With your high volume roughly what sort of sets are you doing per muscle per week?

 

[BigLittleJoe2]

right now i'm training on a similar principle say 8 weeks high volume 4 weeks low volume but I don't have strictly defined periods how much time I work on a given volume and it comes out naturally

for example - i'm doing high volume but i feel like i'm progressing a lot in strength and i can add weights every week so i go to lower volume and train like that until i see progress or i start to feel tendon pain etc then i go back to high volume again

Do you adjust your calories when you are doing a lower volume high intensity mesocycle?

 

[luki7788]

With your high volume roughly what sort of sets are you doing per muscle per week?

I have no idea, I don't count it to be honest, but yesterday I did chest, side / rear delts, tris

4 sets flat DB,4 x incline DB, 3x incline BD fly,3x pec dec with trimple drop
3 sets revers pec dec,3 sets bent over DB rise ,4 sets side rise
4 sets rope push down,3 sets one arm tris ex.

but I'm just starting the training cycle so the volume will increase

 

[luki7788]

Do you adjust your calories when you are doing a lower volume high intensity mesocycle?

no

 

[BigLittleJoe2]

I have no idea, I don't count it to be honest, but yesterday I did chest, side / rear delts, tris

4 sets flat DB,4 x incline DB, 3x incline BD fly,3x pec dec with trimple drop
3 sets revers pec dec,3 sets bent over DB rise ,4 sets side rise
4 sets rope push down,3 sets one arm tris ex.

but I'm just starting the training cycle so the volume will increase

For the sake of comparison I'd be curious to see what a typical chest and triceps day looks like when you are doing lower volume high intensity workouts.

 

[VaginaBoob89]

Hi guys, just trying to get some experience or opinions with the below

Mixing high volume and high intensity training to get the best of both worlds

So for example alternating week to week

High intensity = 5 day density split that I’m sure you guys are aware of (Jordan peters PPL 5 day fixed split)

High volume = single body part over 5 days (chest, back, legs, off, shoulders, arms, off) but say 12-20 sets per body part


My thought process is best of both worlds and gives your body a slight break from max loads and intensity every other week

hopefully as well it may lessen the chance of picking up stuff like tendinitis and lengthen the time before you stall out on an exercise when you’re always trying to adopt the log book approach. Plus it’s mentally less taxing on the higher volume weeks which could be an indirect factor to helping progress.

It would obviously be very person dependent and would take some planning out but on the higher volume weeks you could potentially adopt some of the high insulin protocols Milo’s uses and then with it being every other week may increase the time you can do it for before peaking out with bodyfat etc


Interested to hear any experiences or thoughts in regards to this

A lot of the powerlifting/oly lifting sports science when it comes to programming is way ahead of bodybuilding. "intensity" for them is slightly different for us; but in terms of volume this is exactly what they've been doing from the 70s. You start with a higher volume lower intensity (in our case less effort per set, not necessarily less weight) approach and then gradually increase the intensity (proximity to failure) while reducing the number of sets. Mountain Dog had several training programs set up like this. It makes a lot of sense and is consistent with overcoming adaptive resistance from specific stimulus while also being beneficial for fatigue management. You could even take it further and train 5-6 days per week during the volume phase and then drop down to 4 days during the more intensity focused phase.

I think you and anyone else reading will probably notice slightly better results and, as you say, less injuries and symptoms of over-use/overtraining taking an approach like this.

 

[qbkilla]

What would be the benefit of alternating high volume and high intensity week to week vs alternating 2-4 month mesocycles of each?

This is the approach I prefer. Or phul, a intensity day then a pump day, same week.

I personally think some parts respond better to volume...arms delts. So I do low volume for those parts high intensity.. chest back legs..then arm day n delt day are high volume.

 

[Deleted member 226465]

A lot of the powerlifting/oly lifting sports science when it comes to programming is way ahead of bodybuilding. "intensity" for them is slightly different for us; but in terms of volume this is exactly what they've been doing from the 70s. You start with a higher volume lower intensity (in our case less effort per set, not necessarily less weight) approach and then gradually increase the intensity (proximity to failure) while reducing the number of sets. Mountain Dog had several training programs set up like this. It makes a lot of sense and is consistent with overcoming adaptive resistance from specific stimulus while also being beneficial for fatigue management. You could even take it further and train 5-6 days per week during the volume phase and then drop down to 4 days during the more intensity focused phase.

I think you and anyone else reading will probably notice slightly better results and, as you say, less injuries and symptoms of over-use/overtraining taking an approach like this.

I’ve never looked into the mountain dog stuff but I’m going to research it heard alot of good stuff about it

 

[Wolf79]

I have no idea, I don't count it to be honest, but yesterday I did chest, side / rear delts, tris

4 sets flat DB,4 x incline DB, 3x incline BD fly,3x pec dec with trimple drop
3 sets revers pec dec,3 sets bent over DB rise ,4 sets side rise
4 sets rope push down,3 sets one arm tris ex.

but I'm just starting the training cycle so the volume will increase

at high volume do you train to failure or leave reps in reserve?

 

[TheOtherOne55]

A lot of the powerlifting/oly lifting sports science when it comes to programming is way ahead of bodybuilding. "intensity" for them is slightly different for us; but in terms of volume this is exactly what they've been doing from the 70s. You start with a higher volume lower intensity (in our case less effort per set, not necessarily less weight) approach and then gradually increase the intensity (proximity to failure) while reducing the number of sets. Mountain Dog had several training programs set up like this. It makes a lot of sense and is consistent with overcoming adaptive resistance from specific stimulus while also being beneficial for fatigue management. You could even take it further and train 5-6 days per week during the volume phase and then drop down to 4 days during the more intensity focused phase.

I think you and anyone else reading will probably notice slightly better results and, as you say, less injuries and symptoms of over-use/overtraining taking an approach like this.

To me, this is just periodization and you’re right most Olympic lifters and honestly most track and field sports train like this. But working with guys like Josh Bryant when I was powerlifting, his stuff was very different. He had a different approach to each movement honestly. Squats were different than bench and bench was diff then deadlift. But I do think the most general approach ever is periodization and it does work. I personally was just never interested in it in bodybuilding because we are peaking physically not performance wise.

Kinda going off what Luki said, I have explored and will continueee to explore every which way for volume and intensity. I’ve always been a JP guy but I do realize that my body cannot train like that forever. Iaian Valliere basically gave a long discussion on this on Fouad podcast a week ago. So I’ve messed with systems like Fortitude that allow some heavy loading yet still give me some volume and high rep ways to stimulate the muscle. As of right now, I’m basically choosing a couple heavy loading exercises upfront and then using the rest of my workout for volume. I remember Luke Sandow had evolved to this in his last couple years. Basically log booking some big bread and butter exercises and then flooding the muscle with blood after that. Imagine doing Mountain Dogg training but using progressive overload in the first 2-3 exercises. That’s basically it. I love strength progression and that’s the shit that drive myofibular hypertrophy. But I also think that after years of lifting my mind muscle connection is so great that load doesn’t become a thing and it’s about really locking in and feeling that muscle work under tension. At a safer weight yet still doing all it needs to do hypertrophy wise. Ok, long rant over. I’m just a nerd for the training aspect more than the drugs so this stuff always interests me.

 

[luki7788]

at high volume do you train to failure or leave reps in reserve?

Always failure - no bullshit reps in reserve