How fat do you let yourself get(off season)?

Hyperemia · Jun 23, 2023

165StateChamp said:
Oh man I think @luki7788 honestly has us covered with the log…my approach is crazy simple and basic and all the knowledge you could ever need on the more complex aspects of this game are in that thread. But I can definitely post some updates and similar on occasion. I’m flattered

You and Palifter have 2 of the most aesthetically pleasing physiques on this site in my opinion. I’m sure you think everything you’re doing has been covered but trust me, lots of us would tune in to a log, tips, etc.

165StateChamp · Jun 23, 2023

A lot has changed in 13 years

https://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/index.php?threads/i-absolutely-love-stuff-like-this-absolutely-love-it.62679/

pothole · Jun 23, 2023

Virtuous said:
…are you this dude? You’re awfully defensive lmao

Dude. He’s paying premium cash for a good coach and he’s doing stuff that many experienced vets here would not advise.

Now, his coach knows him best. Maybe this is the right move. But it’s totally fair to be vocal with concerns when he’s clearly getting above 20% bf.

Like dude, I could just chuck 20 lbs of pure fat on my body and have his same weight/bf stats, and I don’t participate in shows or anything. I’m not a bodybuilder, not even an amateur. When a joker like me can say that, it shows something that may warrant a reconsideration of approach.

…and remember, you’re on the internet. Feelings come here to get hurt.

Defensive? Nah man. Maybe I’m just not into dragging people on the internet. Carry on

danieltx · Jun 23, 2023

165StateChamp said:
A lot has changed in 13 years

https://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/index.php?threads/i-absolutely-love-stuff-like-this-absolutely-love-it.62679/

Yet this method still works just as well as it always has - it's how I gained my size.

b-boy · Jun 23, 2023

165StateChamp said:
A lot has changed in 13 years

https://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/index.php?threads/i-absolutely-love-stuff-like-this-absolutely-love-it.62679/

I have nothing against this method but ask yourself this....who in 2020-2023 does that? Look at every new pro and look at their offseason pics, new guys like Justin Shier, Carlos Thomas, hell Nick Walker, look at ANY recent pro today and they are growing leaps and bounds in the offseason but they are all doing it lean. Now to Dante's defense maybe all these these guys are drugging themselves to higher weights and not using mainly food as their anabolic I honestly don't know but I can say that if I could possibly push the food on cruise dosages I could grow and remain fairly lean, my old ass has a hard time digesting a lot of food now so it would be super difficult to truly find out

165StateChamp · Jun 23, 2023

b-boy said:
I have nothing against this method but ask yourself this....who in 2020-2023 does that? Look at every new pro and look at their offseason pics, new guys like Justin Shier, Carlos Thomas, hell Nick Walker, look at ANY recent pro today and they are growing leaps and bounds in the offseason but they are all doing it lean. Now to Dante's defense maybe all these these guys are drugging themselves to higher weights and not using mainly food as their anabolic I honestly don't know but I can say that if I could possibly push the food on cruise dosages I could grow and remain fairly lean, my old ass has a hard time digesting a lot of food now so it would be super difficult to truly find out

I share your viewpoint. This way is outdated and not necessarily the best BUT it does work…today’s way of staying tighter while not looking to keep striated glutes or chiseled abs is the best option. I do think guys are using more GH in the off-season though and I know Jansen will use low dose tren throughout the offseason on multiple guys as well so you get a harder look.

I wouldn’t call it drugging themselves to higher weights but there’s more of a balance between food/drugs/training than there was previously.

Personally, the off-season as a younger bodybuilder to me is the time to grow. All three need to be emphasized.

Mufasa123 · Jun 23, 2023

I'd assume everyone has a set point at various leanness where once at or above they can gain muscle optimally or near optimally. Below is harder and much above doesn't yield appreciable muscle to offset carrying more fat (and having to cut back through it). Trick is finding it.

Drugs will obviously help shift that point but still there are limits for various dosage levels even at the highest end.

TheOtherOne55 · Jun 23, 2023

Im not pro-getting fat. But I think using Nick and Carlos as examples is not right. Both have some of the most insane genetics ever for growth. I think If you look at most BBers, most had to do a few off-seasons of really pushing it. Not 20% pushing it, but maybe 13%.

And I do think most need to stay at a reasonable bf %. But I also know that when you want to make obvious gains, you DO need to push food and take yourself to an uncomfortable place. Hell, I’m at an uncomfortable place right nowww.
All 3 of these guys below are at uncomfortable places in terms of bf. What saves Justin more than the others is his insane shape. But most do not have that shoulder to waist ratio. If you are the 1%, you can grow and stay 10%, for the other 99% who are trying to put on legit stage weight you are gonna have to be a little fluffy for an off-season or two.

Ace0 · Jun 23, 2023

165StateChamp said:
Personally, the off-season as a younger bodybuilder to me is the time to grow. All three need to be emphasized.

I think I have to agree here, and one thing I really fucked up. The first year or two should be all about the mass, it'll make staying lean way easier down the road.

Mufasa123 said:
I'd assume everyone has a set point at various leanness where once at or above they can gain muscle optimally or near optimally. Below is harder and much above doesn't yield appreciable muscle to offset carrying more fat (and having to cut back through it). Trick is finding it.

Drugs will obviously help shift that point but still there are limits for various dosage levels even at the highest end.

This too, there are some guys who don't even try to stay super lean after a show because they know they won't really start gaining muscle until they are in the 8-12% range. Majority of the pros are ectomorphs and mesomorphs, they have super low set points so getting fat doesn't make sense to them. I've bounced back and fourth between 160-180 about half a dozen times now over the course of five years and have gained maybe 5lbs of muscle.

I know some guys say cut first and grow from contest shape because insulin sensitivity, one quick thing I want to point out is that fat cells just like muscle cells have insulin sensitivity. I haven't let myself bulk properly but you guys will all probably know what I'm talking about, when you bulk from a cut or a maintenance phase, and the weight is just flying on and then you hit that first wall and now you really have to start pushing the food, the gear, the training? For naturally lean guys "hard gainers" thats day one and where the real growth starts to happen. But for us former fatties that wall doesn't appear until 20lbs down the road and that is when they should bulk slowly, and try to get the lean gains, but up until that point its old fat cells just refilling and there is almost nothing you can do about it. In the long term when enough muscle is built the fat cells just have less and less of an appearance, because its not a bf% set point but rather a total fat amount and 20lbs of fat looks different on a 130lb frame than it does a 230lb frame.

st114 · Jun 23, 2023

I do get kind of fat when bulking, but I’m also a powerlifter and not a bodybuilder so this may not be relevant. I am lucky that I hold all my weight in my stomach and legs, so my arms, pecs, shoulders, etc all look like they’re way leaner.
But I can never tell what’s fat and what’s water. My profile pic is about as husky as I get, but I took some aromasin and stopped taking mk677 and I pissed my way into having abs again in about a week from that pic.
I grew up reading the Dante methods, food is your anabolic, etc.

Ruhlfreak55 · Jun 23, 2023

pothole said:
Y'all don't think this is a little messed up to trash someones physique without their knowledge? If you want to talk shit atleast blur out the guys IG name and face. this is really not cool

I think it's extremely messed up.

Ruhlfreak55 · Jun 23, 2023

TheOtherOne55 said:
Im not pro-getting fat. But I think using Nick and Carlos as examples is not right. Both have some of the most insane genetics ever for growth. I think If you look at most BBers, most had to do a few off-seasons of really pushing it. Not 20% pushing it, but maybe 13%.

And I do think most need to stay at a reasonable bf %. But I also know that when you want to make obvious gains, you DO need to push food and take yourself to an uncomfortable place. Hell, I’m at an uncomfortable place right nowww.
All 3 of these guys below are at uncomfortable places in terms of bf. What saves Justin more than the others is his insane shape. But most do not have that shoulder to waist ratio. If you are the 1%, you can grow and stay 10%, for the other 99% who are trying to put on legit stage weight you are gonna have to be a little fluffy for an off-season or two.

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So just for comparison and clarity's sake all 3 of these guys (except maybe hawaiian, his lighting is real dark) have ZERO hair on them. And the guy you've all been shitting on had that 6-7 weeks post wax amount that REALLY blurs shit (I'm not sure how all of you don't experience this shit) but to the naked eye with no comparison doesn't REALLY seem like hair. It's like a fat optical illusion.
On top of that, no matter how many of you apparent genetic gods chime in, the guy is a water buffalo. We buffalos look fat until 4 weeks out, that's just the way it is. Some of us don't have the god genes that apparently the 95% of the boards posters have.

Fleezy · Jun 23, 2023

Ruhlfreak55 said:
So just for comparison and clarity's sake all 3 of these guys (except maybe hawaiian, his lighting is real dark) have ZERO hair on them. And the guy you've all been shitting on had that 6-7 weeks post wax amount that REALLY blurs shit (I'm not sure how all of you don't experience this shit) but to the naked eye with no comparison doesn't REALLY seem like hair. It's like a fat optical illusion.
On top of that, no matter how many of you apparent genetic gods chime in, the guy is a water buffalo. We buffalos look fat until 4 weeks out, that's just the way it is. Some of us don't have the god genes that apparently the 95% of the boards posters have.

Body hair and water doesn’t cause a flap that hangs over the front of your waistband

But alright

blackjack · Jun 23, 2023

Ruhlfreak55 said:
So just for comparison and clarity's sake all 3 of these guys (except maybe hawaiian, his lighting is real dark) have ZERO hair on them. And the guy you've all been shitting on had that 6-7 weeks post wax amount that REALLY blurs shit (I'm not sure how all of you don't experience this shit) but to the naked eye with no comparison doesn't REALLY seem like hair. It's like a fat optical illusion.
On top of that, no matter how many of you apparent genetic gods chime in, the guy is a water buffalo. We buffalos look fat until 4 weeks out, that's just the way it is. Some of us don't have the god genes that apparently the 95% of the boards posters have.

don't project your fluff guilt on me