Off-season plan.. test with??

[Zamun]

For most Test, EQ or Primo or even Masteron, with NPP or Deca
Gh and insulin. Igf1lr3 is actually useful imo. Increlex if you can source it.

Im going to be an outlier, but I know from having spoken with these other guys, that I’m not the only one.
Some guys have very little aromatase activity, and are in a small
Minority, so for us, adding in primo, or EQ if it functions like an Ai, or even Masteron drops our e2 into a non favorable range.

Even adding 70 Rimobolan to 600 test drops my e2 too low, down to 20 or less. So just make sure you aren’t one of those guys.

So for me, it has to be Test/Deca and that’s basically it because I dont use orals in the off-season. I’ve done test/deca/ with little short bursts of Tren A for special use scenarios. Those are the things that won’t crush my e2 below a range that I feel is optimal for me to grow In.

The majority of guys are going to be dialed in with some combination of Test, EQ or primo, and NPP or Deca. But long story short whatever has your e2 settled into that 50-70pg/ml sweet spot and the dose of of androgens needed to support your progress of turning the food you eat into muscle. Gh and insulin help with that too.


And now the most overlooked thing. That will be unique to each person;
everything else that’s going to support your sleep, digestion and base state of health.

You need to be able to stay in a caloric surplus, find foods or supplementation that helps you continue on with this process.
For me, staying healthy keeps my appetite and digestion up and makes this progress more linear. Stalling out is what prevents progress the most of all. Look into things like fulvic acid, or digestive enzymes and probiotics for digestion. Nitric oxide levels for vasodilation and nutrient delivery. Liver health, like tudca and glutathione and NAC. Possibly even NAD+. Things to optimize your thyroid state from a micro nutrient standpoint to keep
Your appetite and gastric clearance rate singing.

Ultimately everything that’s going to optimize the highway from your mouth to the muscle is going to be your friend in a growth phase and that’s going to matter more than peds. With the exception of having off e2 levels. That can impair your breakdown of fats in the liver which throws everything else off.

So make sure you dial in electrolyte levels even, sodiumotassium:magnesium, maybe even calcium to minimize water retention so you don’t go in a goose chase thinking it’s your e2 being High, adding in things like Ai, or serms and making the tower collapse when the issue wasn’t there to begin with. Support dopamine/ thyroid through tyrosine , selenium, iodine intake, which will keep your prolactin down. Allowing you to run higher e2 allowing you to digest more fat and fat soluble nutrients and build collagen to prevent injury.

It’s a whole spiral, find what works for you while being mindful of all these disorganized puzzle pieces.

You forgot about SHBG. That’s the key. Without it completely dialed in none of this matters

 

[Parabolic33]

You forgot about SHBG. That’s the key. Without it completely dialed in none of this matters

Haha good one ! Notice how I left it out. Because it doesn’t matter as much as the other things. And I’ve never said otherwise

 

[gains4000]

You forgot about SHBG. That’s the key. Without it completely dialed in none of this matters

Agreed, that and the estrogen injections really do the trick.

 

[gains4000]

NPP is better than EQ and Primo for bulk. Trestolone is really good for bulking but it’s a lot more expensive than NPP. You can’t go wrong with lots of testosterone nandrolone and HGH.

 

[Parabolic33]

hilarious

NPP is better than EQ and Primo for bulk. Trestolone is really good for bulking but it’s a lot more expensive than NPP. You can’t go wrong with lots of testosterone nandrolone and HGH.

thats my staple bulk cycle.test/Deca. Deca just because it’s even cheaper than NPP and dosed high mg/ml up to 300mg/ml without crazy solvents. Some guys just need to control estrogen when using just test and Deca, that’s where the EQ or primo comes in, not necessarily for crazy anabolic effect. Though they still are moderately anabolic.

Ment I haven’t used as much of as Deca, but it felt to be about as effective as Deca, just at a much lower dose needed for the ment. And at certain point turning the ment up meant estrogenic sides.

So yea Test/Deca for me.

Or like you pointed out, Which you keep making fun of me for, I do use Estradiol/Deca or Estradiol /EQ/Deca. Right now it’s Estradiol/EQ/Primo. You can keep making fun of me lol, I really don’t care. It works for me, and I keep growing how I want.

I’m not telling everyone to go out an inject estradiol. But if they wanted to, I’m just sharing what I’ve done, I’m just saying it works for me.

 

[Deleted member 226465]

Hi guys
I’ve always wanted to compete, but if a bucket list thing..I’ve tried to a couple of times but in all honesty I’ve just pulled out as I havnt had a courage to get on stage.

It’s a now or never type situation for me

Im planning to go into an off-season period and cut down to compete later next year

I’ve been all over with cycles tried everything really but never stuck with any cycle long enough to get the maximum out of them I guess

What’s your most productive cycle you’ve had in terms of what goes alongside your testosterone

I’m torn between npp, eq, primobolan any advise on the pros and cons of each would be greatly appreciated

I have attached a picture of my current physique

Thanks for any advise or guidance

Seen you on gym outcasts page over the years mate

In all fairness you’ve been big and in decent shape for probably the best part of 10 years going from memory of the gym outcasts stuff

I imagine in that time you’ve probably tried most things there is a chance you may be reaching your genetic limit in terms of size so I’d bite the bullet and do a show mate I’m sure you’d absolutely smash it

May be worth getting a decent coach (can recommend a few good uk ones) as you’re at a level beyond most gym guys

 

[JonnyJHutch]

Hi lads.. really appreciate all the feedback, havnt been online for a little while I wasn’t being ignorant, appreciate everyone’s time.

Right now and on the photo above I’m currently using 300mg of testosterone, I’ve just sent my bloodwork off to see where things are at then depending I’ll go from there.

In terms of never finishing cycles a should probably elaborate, I was diagnosed with UC, ulcerative colitis years ago, I take daily mesalazine medication for it, my real is I seem to get going with a cycle, as I progress and food increases (I have to be careful of food portions) I most of the time go into a flare up which means I’m constantly on the toilet so very few nutrients are being absorbed so it gets abit disheartening and I tend to throw the towel in and stop my use and have to pull back on training so not to cause any added inflammation, a flare up can last a couple of days or a couple of weeks.. not sure the best way to handle gut health digestion etc

I’ve only used gh on and off at 2iu a day for probably a few months at a time, so 2iu even worth it? Is there a big difference when you start to increase the dose of it? I’ve never used slin, I’ve seen a lot of people using lantus lately?

I do get along well with eq but the high increase in rbc puts me off as I use 5mg of lisinopril daily, I’ll see what my blood results say and go from there

Thanks everyone

 

[JonnyJHutch]

Seen you on gym outcasts page over the years mate

In all fairness you’ve been big and in decent shape for probably the best part of 10 years going from memory of the gym outcasts stuff

I imagine in that time you’ve probably tried most things there is a chance you may be reaching your genetic limit in terms of size so I’d bite the bullet and do a show mate I’m sure you’d absolutely smash it

May be worth getting a decent coach (can recommend a few good uk ones) as you’re at a level beyond most gym guys

Good memory matey! Hope you are well .. appreciate the support

 

[luki7788]

Hi lads.. really appreciate all the feedback, havnt been online for a little while I wasn’t being ignorant, appreciate everyone’s time.

Right now and on the photo above I’m currently using 300mg of testosterone, I’ve just sent my bloodwork off to see where things are at then depending I’ll go from there.

In terms of never finishing cycles a should probably elaborate, I was diagnosed with UC, ulcerative colitis years ago, I take daily mesalazine medication for it, my real is I seem to get going with a cycle, as I progress and food increases (I have to be careful of food portions) I most of the time go into a flare up which means I’m constantly on the toilet so very few nutrients are being absorbed so it gets abit disheartening and I tend to throw the towel in and stop my use and have to pull back on training so not to cause any added inflammation, a flare up can last a couple of days or a couple of weeks.. not sure the best way to handle gut health digestion etc

I’ve only used gh on and off at 2iu a day for probably a few months at a time, so 2iu even worth it? Is there a big difference when you start to increase the dose of it? I’ve never used slin, I’ve seen a lot of people using lantus lately?

I do get along well with eq but the high increase in rbc puts me off as I use 5mg of lisinopril daily, I’ll see what my blood results say and go from there

Thanks everyone

I have a friend who is a super heavy bodybuilder who was also diagnosed with ulcerative colitis for 4 years and still competes - sometimes he has bad periods and remission of the disease, but for most of the year he lives a completely normal life, he just eats a very clean diet without processed foods and artificial sweeteners. He must also avoid foods that ferment easily in the stomach, such as some fruits or dairy products. When it comes to gear, he only limits trenbolone and uses it only 10-6 weeks before the competition

As for gh, what can I say - the truth is that the more the better 2iu they use bikini girls not big guys lol - insulin with higher doses of gh will be a game changer for you

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

hilarious

thats my staple bulk cycle.test/Deca. Deca just because it’s even cheaper than NPP and dosed high mg/ml up to 300mg/ml without crazy solvents. Some guys just need to control estrogen when using just test and Deca, that’s where the EQ or primo comes in, not necessarily for crazy anabolic effect. Though they still are moderately anabolic.

Ment I haven’t used as much of as Deca, but it felt to be about as effective as Deca, just at a much lower dose needed for the ment. And at certain point turning the ment up meant estrogenic sides.

So yea Test/Deca for me.

Or like you pointed out, Which you keep making fun of me for, I do use Estradiol/Deca or Estradiol /EQ/Deca. Right now it’s Estradiol/EQ/Primo. You can keep making fun of me lol, I really don’t care. It works for me, and I keep growing how I want.

I’m not telling everyone to go out an inject estradiol. But if they wanted to, I’m just sharing what I’ve done, I’m just saying it works for me.

Have you had labs done while using deca and estradiol? Or combination s?

Why not just take dhea and boost e2, when on deca, or deca and masteron, or, Deca primo, and eq?

Man be careful, I've used deca solo hrt 210 mgs only for three months and had severe mental negative effects. Deca solo causes prolactin to raise and dopamine, to lower significantly. Even with deca and test it seemed to cause a blah feeling.

Moreover I won't use deca solo again but when I do use deca , it's seemed to help a lot, I used mucuna priuens, with forty percent l dopa. L dopa lowers prolactin and raises dopamine.

If course l dopa needs to be discontinued when deca is discontinued or can cause negative effects but on cycle a couple or few months, it's the best kind of natty supplement to lower prolactin and raise dopamine.

 

[JonnyJHutch]

I have a friend who is a super heavy bodybuilder who was also diagnosed with ulcerative colitis for 4 years and still competes - sometimes he has bad periods and remission of the disease, but for most of the year he lives a completely normal life, he just eats a very clean diet without processed foods and artificial sweeteners. He must also avoid foods that ferment easily in the stomach, such as some fruits or dairy products. When it comes to gear, he only limits trenbolone and uses it only 10-6 weeks before the competition

As for gh, what can I say - the truth is that the more the better 2iu they use bikini girls not big guys lol - insulin with higher doses of gh will be a game changer for you

Thanks for that @luki7788 its very positive to hear of someone like your friend who is at such a weight and still able to eat and manage his condition and compete! I was considering trying oral bp157 to see if that would help with any gut inflammation

So I’m guessing my use of 2iu is a waste then haha what would you recommend as a better starting dose for myself? 5iu +? Do you rate the use of lantus or prefer novorapid etc?

I’ve followed your posts for a long time so nice to finally speak with you. I noticed you had said previously that your use of high eq doesn’t increase your rbc greatly, do you find that common with others aswell? Thanks mate

 

[Gunsmith]

Hi lads.. really appreciate all the feedback, havnt been online for a little while I wasn’t being ignorant, appreciate everyone’s time.

Right now and on the photo above I’m currently using 300mg of testosterone, I’ve just sent my bloodwork off to see where things are at then depending I’ll go from there.

In terms of never finishing cycles a should probably elaborate, I was diagnosed with UC, ulcerative colitis years ago, I take daily mesalazine medication for it, my real is I seem to get going with a cycle, as I progress and food increases (I have to be careful of food portions) I most of the time go into a flare up which means I’m constantly on the toilet so very few nutrients are being absorbed so it gets abit disheartening and I tend to throw the towel in and stop my use and have to pull back on training so not to cause any added inflammation, a flare up can last a couple of days or a couple of weeks.. not sure the best way to handle gut health digestion etc

I’ve only used gh on and off at 2iu a day for probably a few months at a time, so 2iu even worth it? Is there a big difference when you start to increase the dose of it? I’ve never used slin, I’ve seen a lot of people using lantus lately?

I do get along well with eq but the high increase in rbc puts me off as I use 5mg of lisinopril daily, I’ll see what my blood results say and go from there

Thanks everyone

Look into BCP-157 for help healing the UC , it’s being used aloe now days for treating ulcers , Unceritive colitis and other stomach through bowel issues. Also you can try suppleminting some EAA between meals to help reduce the volume of digestible protein needed each day , take some stress off the digestive tract

 

[JonnyJHutch]

Look into BCP-157 for help healing the UC , it’s being used aloe now days for treating ulcers , Unceritive colitis and other stomach through bowel issues. Also you can try suppleminting some EAA between meals to help reduce the volume of digestible protein needed each day , take some stress off the digestive tract

Yea mate bpc is something I’ve been looking into I’m going to get some oral bpc and see if it helps. Never thought about supplementing with eaa’s for that reason, it’s a good shout. I tend to stay away from powders, mainly your pre’s, intras, wheys as they seems to kick my stomach off pretty quickly into using them

Oral steroids are generally off the table for me aswell start to cause all sorts of problems

I seem to get in a good place weight starts to increase, strength gets good then all of a sudden my body seems to fight back and flares up

 

[JonnyJHutch]

Was also sceptical about using tren as it can cause some gastric distress when the GI tract is healthy and don’t have IBD. Sort of led me to thinking what would I do come prep time as most won’t compete without tren from what I gather for the specific look it can bring to the stage

 

[JonnyJHutch]

Appreciate that mate. Yea I was thinking maybe add in some insulin now and gh I’ve only ran sporadically but nothing more than 2iu

 

[luki7788]

Thanks for that @luki7788 its very positive to hear of someone like your friend who is at such a weight and still able to eat and manage his condition and compete! I was considering trying oral bp157 to see if that would help with any gut inflammation

So I’m guessing my use of 2iu is a waste then haha what would you recommend as a better starting dose for myself? 5iu +? Do you rate the use of lantus or prefer novorapid etc?

I’ve followed your posts for a long time so nice to finally speak with you. I noticed you had said previously that your use of high eq doesn’t increase your rbc greatly, do you find that common with others aswell? Thanks mate

Bro, no offense, but you're asking questions like you're talking to a coach, and this is just a forum and it's impossible to prepare a detailed protocol for you - my opinion? find a good coach and start working with him because I can already see from your doubts and the questions you ask that you can't handle everything on your own and you need someone who will take care of you

 

[Parabolic33]

Have you had labs done while using deca and estradiol? Or combination s?

Why not just take dhea and boost e2, when on deca, or deca and masteron, or, Deca primo, and eq?

Man be careful, I've used deca solo hrt 210 mgs only for three months and had severe mental negative effects. Deca solo causes prolactin to raise and dopamine, to lower significantly. Even with deca and test it seemed to cause a blah feeling.

Moreover I won't use deca solo again but when I do use deca , it's seemed to help a lot, I used mucuna priuens, with forty percent l dopa. L dopa lowers prolactin and raises dopamine.

If course l dopa needs to be discontinued when deca is discontinued or can cause negative effects but on cycle a couple or few months, it's the best kind of natty supplement to lower prolactin and raise dopamine.

Even with 100mg each of dhea and pregnenolone per day, with 600iu hcg per day didn’t provide any meaningful increase to my e2 with the deca only. E2 was still bottomed out until I added exogenous estradiol intramuscular. Cream was too inconsistent also

Also with prolactin. I’ve never seen prolactin go up on my own
Labs from deca solo, or deca with test, not any significant amount because I’m always at the bottom end of the normal range prolactin. However with trenbolone I’ve gotten my prolactin up to the top end of the normal range.

It’s possible that at that 210mg dose, the nandrolone didn’t provide enough ar activity to make up for the lack of dht being present. For me at 1050mg deca solo per week, I felt no different mentally, because if I had to guess, that even though nandrolone is converted to weaker dhn in 5ar dense tissue, that in almost all
Other tissue, nandrolone is so potent at ar activity that at the higher dose was able to overcome the lack of test/dht.

I’ve never done cycles without test at hrt range doses and that may be why I haven’t had mental side effects from the lack of test/dht.

 

[bbxtreme]

Thanks for that @luki7788 its very positive to hear of someone like your friend who is at such a weight and still able to eat and manage his condition and compete! I was considering trying oral bp157 to see if that would help with any gut inflammation

So I’m guessing my use of 2iu is a waste then haha what would you recommend as a better starting dose for myself? 5iu +? Do you rate the use of lantus or prefer novorapid etc?

I’ve followed your posts for a long time so nice to finally speak with you. I noticed you had said previously that your use of high eq doesn’t increase your rbc greatly, do you find that common with others aswell? Thanks mate

Hire @luki7788 if he will work with you as a coach. He knows how to navigate all of this stuff and can get you to that next level you’re looking for. Sounds like you need someone with that knowledge at this phase.

 

[DiHydro]

Even with 100mg each of dhea and pregnenolone per day, with 600iu hcg per day didn’t provide any meaningful increase to my e2 with the deca only. E2 was still bottomed out until I added exogenous estradiol intramuscular. Cream was too inconsistent also

Also with prolactin. I’ve never seen prolactin go up on my own
Labs from deca solo, or deca with test, not any significant amount because I’m always at the bottom end of the normal range prolactin. However with trenbolone I’ve gotten my prolactin up to the top end of the normal range.

It’s possible that at that 210mg dose, the nandrolone didn’t provide enough ar activity to make up for the lack of dht being present. For me at 1050mg deca solo per week, I felt no different mentally, because if I had to guess, that even though nandrolone is converted to weaker dhn in 5ar dense tissue, that in almost all
Other tissue, nandrolone is so potent at ar activity that at the higher dose was able to overcome the lack of test/dht.

I’ve never done cycles without test at hrt range doses and that may be why I haven’t had mental side effects from the lack of test/dht.

Why are you avoiding Test?

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

I’ve never done cycles without test at hrt range doses and that may be why I haven’t had mental side effects from the lack of test/dht.

Did you use an test trt dose, with the 1050 deca cycle?