Off-season plan.. test with??

[Parabolic33]

Why are you avoiding Test?

A specific experiment that I want to finish. I found out by accident that removing test completely from a stack, and maintaining e2 at the level with intramuscular estradiol, to the same level it otherwise would be with an aromatized test base, caused SHBG to rapidly increase back up to like natty levels, or the same levels a guy who never blasts would have. While on blast doses, usually SHBG is below 10 or so. So this thing I found by accident lets me experiment with seeing how I grow/feel at different levels of SHBG while still blasting at the same dose.

I got the idea originally from Vigorous Steve and Leo, they anecdotally noticed they would have clients who could over do proviron, and they’d get awesome libido and growth that lasted like 2-3 weeks, but then the libido effect drops off and goes below baseline according to them and their clients.

There has also been a pretty newly discovered SHBG receptor, that when bound at the same time as the regular free AR, that it increases the activity of the AR by multiple fold higher when the SHBG receptor is activated at the same time. So the thought is that is SHBG levels drop way to low, this causes a diminished effect of the cycle and part of the reason why growth may stall out over the course of a cycle, and possibly why people even report the best growth in response to their first cycle when their SHBG level is high normal and on the way down.

Then once SHBG bottoms out, on paper, and in a study done on protstate, that the free androgen only was inferior to triggering growth compared to when SHBG Receptor and AR receptor were both activated simultaneously.

So I’ve been experimenting with intentionally crushing my SHBG level for a few months at a time then restoring it for a few months to measure the effect it has on my progress in size strength weight etc

 

[Parabolic33]

Did you use an test trt dose, with the 1050 deca cycle?

I have done this too yes. 87.5mg test e per week with 1050 deca. Then I dropped the test completely and used only estradiol instead.

 

[dimethyl11]

A specific experiment that I want to finish. I found out by accident that removing test completely from a stack, and maintaining e2 at the level with intramuscular estradiol, to the same level it otherwise would be with an aromatized test base, caused SHBG to rapidly increase back up to like natty levels, or the same levels a guy who never blasts would have. While on blast doses, usually SHBG is below 10 or so. So this thing I found by accident lets me experiment with seeing how I grow/feel at different levels of SHBG while still blasting at the same dose.

I got the idea originally from Vigorous Steve and Leo, they anecdotally noticed they would have clients who could over do proviron, and they’d get awesome libido and growth that lasted like 2-3 weeks, but then the libido effect drops off and goes below baseline according to them and their clients.

There has also been a pretty newly discovered SHBG receptor, that when bound at the same time as the regular free AR, that it increases the activity of the AR by multiple fold higher when the SHBG receptor is activated at the same time. So the thought is that is SHBG levels drop way to low, this causes a diminished effect of the cycle and part of the reason why growth may stall out over the course of a cycle, and possibly why people even report the best growth in response to their first cycle when their SHBG level is high normal and on the way down.

Then once SHBG bottoms out, on paper, and in a study done on protstate, that the free androgen only was inferior to triggering growth compared to when SHBG Receptor and AR receptor were both activated simultaneously.

So I’ve been experimenting with intentionally crushing my SHBG level for a few months at a time then restoring it for a few months to measure the effect it has on my progress in size strength weight etc

Interesting

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

A specific experiment that I want to finish. I found out by accident that removing test completely from a stack, and maintaining e2 at the level with intramuscular estradiol, to the same level it otherwise would be with an aromatized test base, caused SHBG to rapidly increase back up to like natty levels, or the same levels a guy who never blasts would have. While on blast doses, usually SHBG is below 10 or so. So this thing I found by accident lets me experiment with seeing how I grow/feel at different levels of SHBG while still blasting at the same dose.

I got the idea originally from Vigorous Steve and Leo, they anecdotally noticed they would have clients who could over do proviron, and they’d get awesome libido and growth that lasted like 2-3 weeks, but then the libido effect drops off and goes below baseline according to them and their clients.

There has also been a pretty newly discovered SHBG receptor, that when bound at the same time as the regular free AR, that it increases the activity of the AR by multiple fold higher when the SHBG receptor is activated at the same time. So the thought is that is SHBG levels drop way to low, this causes a diminished effect of the cycle and part of the reason why growth may stall out over the course of a cycle, and possibly why people even report the best growth in response to their first cycle when their SHBG level is high normal and on the way down.

Then once SHBG bottoms out, on paper, and in a study done on protstate, that the free androgen only was inferior to triggering growth compared to when SHBG Receptor and AR receptor were both activated simultaneously.

So I’ve been experimenting with intentionally crushing my SHBG level for a few months at a time then restoring it for a few months to measure the effect it has on my progress in size strength weight etc

Did you have an e2 test , while using deca and 87 mgs test weekly? Did you have an e2 test, while in deca only?

Doesn't deca at a gram cause estrogen levels , from nandrolone conversation, to be about mid range ?

Would using synthetic estrogen cause shbg to be lower or higher on deca or could the s be achieved without E2?

 

[Parabolic33]

Did you have an e2 test , while using deca and 87 mgs test weekly? Did you have an e2 test, while in deca only?

Doesn't deca at a gram cause estrogen levels , from nandrolone conversation, to be about mid range ?

Would using synthetic estrogen cause shbg to be lower or higher on deca or could the s be achieved without E2?

I have a test from deca and 87.5 test all of certainly, but I’d have to go back in my notes to make sure.

But if you get and lc/ms test, in myself and others will see e2 will be crushed on nandrolone only even at 1000mg +. E2 won’t be higher than 10pg/ml lc/ms.

What deca does do however, is it works opposite drugs like primo. Deca makes testosterone convert to e2 at an increased rate by increasing the efficiency of the the aromatherapy enzyme. However deca itself almost hardly aromatizes kn the real world on all the blood work I’ve seen.

My bloodwork on 1050 deca /2.8mg estradiol valerate per week was only 20 pg/ml on the dot. So a good portion of that 20 was from the estradiol i was injecting.

in terms of exogenous estrogen ( bio identical estradiol) it makes your shbg higher. E2 from aromtized test or exogenous e2 is a positive stimulus for shbg.

I’ve seen deca only guys bloodwork, and their shbg level isn’t significantly elevated at all because their e2 levels are also very low.
Also it doesn’t have to be deca either that will raise shbg. It’s just the fact that testosterone and dht are the strongest downward forces on shbg compared to all the other anabolic (except maybe proviron).

So you could be on eq or primo or masteron or Tren only.. but as long as e2 stays in range at the high normal level, shbg comes up in my experience- for me despite the dose being supraphysiological still. Primo mast eq etc all have like 20 fold less shbg binding affinity compared to test and dht. So these drugs all provide much less downward force on shbg. It’s just that you also simultaneously need in range- not crushed e2 which is a positive stimulus for shbg at the same time.

It only takes like 3 weeks for a significant 40% increase in shbg in one of my tests. And that was using test enanthate that I dropped. I suspect if I had been on test prop and dropped that, it would have cleared even faster and caused shbg to start going up faster. So most of that 3 weeks I still had quite a bit of test in my system that was pushing shbg downward still.

 

[Parabolic33]

Interesting

I have a video where I talk about it more in depth if you’re curious.

However I failed to adequately stress that I don’t believe that this shbg thing was the sole cause for my rapid growth. i think people took it to Mean that I believed I grew from a skinny anorexic looking guy to a 195lb 5% or 220lb 18% in under 2 years of lifting to mean that I think only this shbg protocol was responsible.
Which I don’t believe.



It’s just that the measurements I took, measuring my body parts like arms, legs calves etc and the rate of size progression and weight progression during the alternating phases of high vs low shbg. Those measurements oh higher shbg, showed faster progression during the phases when shbg was above 8-9nmol/L and grew better starting at more like 14+ shbg level. So I just reported the findings of an experiment but I did a bad job at communicating what I was actually trying to convey and the point of it.

Here is a link if you want

 

[luki7788]

I have a test from deca and 87.5 test all of certainly, but I’d have to go back in my notes to make sure.

But if you get and lc/ms test, in myself and others will see e2 will be crushed on nandrolone only even at 1000mg +. E2 won’t be higher than 10pg/ml lc/ms.

What deca does do however, is it works opposite drugs like primo. Deca makes testosterone convert to e2 at an increased rate by increasing the efficiency of the the aromatherapy enzyme. However deca itself almost hardly aromatizes kn the real world on all the blood work I’ve seen.

My bloodwork on 1050 deca /2.8mg estradiol valerate per week was only 20 pg/ml on the dot. So a good portion of that 20 was from the estradiol i was injecting.

in terms of exogenous estrogen ( bio identical estradiol) it makes your shbg higher. E2 from aromtized test or exogenous e2 is a positive stimulus for shbg.

I’ve seen deca only guys bloodwork, and their shbg level isn’t significantly elevated at all because their e2 levels are also very low.
Also it doesn’t have to be deca either that will raise shbg. It’s just the fact that testosterone and dht are the strongest downward forces on shbg compared to all the other anabolic (except maybe proviron).

So you could be on eq or primo or masteron or Tren only.. but as long as e2 stays in range at the high normal level, shbg comes up in my experience- for me despite the dose being supraphysiological still. Primo mast eq etc all have like 20 fold less shbg binding affinity compared to test and dht. So these drugs all provide much less downward force on shbg. It’s just that you also simultaneously need in range- not crushed e2 which is a positive stimulus for shbg at the same time.

It only takes like 3 weeks for a significant 40% increase in shbg in one of my tests. And that was using test enanthate that I dropped. I suspect if I had been on test prop and dropped that, it would have cleared even faster and caused shbg to start going up faster. So most of that 3 weeks I still had quite a bit of test in my system that was pushing shbg downward still.

with all due respect, but I would not treat these gentlemen as a source of reliable knowledge

 

[Parabolic33]

with all due respect, but I would not treat these gentlemen as a source of reliable knowledge

Which gentleman?

 

[gains4000]

I have a test from deca and 87.5 test all of certainly, but I’d have to go back in my notes to make sure.

But if you get and lc/ms test, in myself and others will see e2 will be crushed on nandrolone only even at 1000mg +. E2 won’t be higher than 10pg/ml lc/ms.

What deca does do however, is it works opposite drugs like primo. Deca makes testosterone convert to e2 at an increased rate by increasing the efficiency of the the aromatherapy enzyme. However deca itself almost hardly aromatizes kn the real world on all the blood work I’ve seen.

My bloodwork on 1050 deca /2.8mg estradiol valerate per week was only 20 pg/ml on the dot. So a good portion of that 20 was from the estradiol i was injecting.

in terms of exogenous estrogen ( bio identical estradiol) it makes your shbg higher. E2 from aromtized test or exogenous e2 is a positive stimulus for shbg.

I’ve seen deca only guys bloodwork, and their shbg level isn’t significantly elevated at all because their e2 levels are also very low.
Also it doesn’t have to be deca either that will raise shbg. It’s just the fact that testosterone and dht are the strongest downward forces on shbg compared to all the other anabolic (except maybe proviron).

So you could be on eq or primo or masteron or Tren only.. but as long as e2 stays in range at the high normal level, shbg comes up in my experience- for me despite the dose being supraphysiological still. Primo mast eq etc all have like 20 fold less shbg binding affinity compared to test and dht. So these drugs all provide much less downward force on shbg. It’s just that you also simultaneously need in range- not crushed e2 which is a positive stimulus for shbg at the same time.

It only takes like 3 weeks for a significant 40% increase in shbg in one of my tests. And that was using test enanthate that I dropped. I suspect if I had been on test prop and dropped that, it would have cleared even faster and caused shbg to start going up faster. So most of that 3 weeks I still had quite a bit of test in my system that was pushing shbg downward still.

This is what we call “Majoring in the Minors”.

 

[jaxino]

I don't understand why people want to reinvest the wheel every time....

Just run high test like all the big boys you see.

High test
High HGH
High growth

 

[Parabolic33]

This is what we call “Majoring in the Minors”.

I think we just have different goals.

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

I don't understand why people want to reinvest the wheel every time....

Just run high test like all the big boys you see.

High test
High HGH
High growth

On Test and deca, finasteride can not be used to reduce androgenic effects. For people that want to keep their hair, and prostate healthy, this combined has negative effects , in hair and prostate. Now a moderate , high test and eq cycle,sure .

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

@Parabolic33 like me , we've seen and heard of lab results on nandrolone. From what I've came across, nandrolone at a gram puts whatever I nd of estrogen it converts to at mid range, for joint and in overall feeling good health. Going further, I take dhea 12.5 mgs to caused estrogen to be in mid range.

 

[jaxino]

On Test and deca, finasteride can not be used to reduce androgenic effects. For people that want to keep their hair, and prostate healthy, this combined has negative effects , in hair and prostate. Now a moderate , high test and eq cycle,sure .

If you want to keep your hairs, just drop enhanced bodybuilding.
If you have the genes to loose hairs you will and nothing will help.

I wouldn't touch finasteride with a 2mt pole.

 

[bbxtreme]

I think we just have different goals.

You said the goal was 260 in a few years which is 60 pounds more. You literally have guys on here telling you who are already there and have done it.

Unless your goal is just to get there the hardest way possible while possibly wrecking your hormones…

Ps. Please don’t write back some long ass response. I really don’t care what you do. But it’s irresponsible IMO to be trying to influence others out here who don’t know any better by posting these theories or hypothesis.

 

[madg]

If you want to keep your hairs, just drop enhanced bodybuilding.
If you have the genes to loose hairs you will and nothing will help.

I wouldn't touch finasteride with a 2mt pole.

Fk finasteride i would never take that shit

Like jaxino said if you are predisposed to losing hair nothing will save you only if stop using aas

Respect

 

[Parabolic33]

You said the goal was 260 in a few years which is 60 pounds more. You literally have guys on here telling you who are already there and have done it.

Unless your goal is just to get there the hardest way possible while possibly wrecking your hormones…

Ps. Please don’t write back some long ass response. I really don’t care what you do. But it’s irresponsible IMO to be trying to influence others out here who don’t know any better by posting these theories or hypothesis.

they just asked why I was doing it. so I stated why I was doing it. the factual part I followed up with has already been studied and replicated multiple times at this point. So that part isn’t theory or hypothesis.

my hypothesis that this factual proven thing MAY be beneficial to bodybuilding Is the theory portion.

i never meant to mislead anyone by saying that this protocol will make somebody bigger.

in terms of it being Harder this way, if I didn’t like the results I was getting i wouldn’t be doing it