Roman Fritz Off-season PED Plan

[Doitagain]

if anyone says Guy looked like a baby lol then watch this

Definitely not the kind of baby I'd like to carry in a stroller

 

[danieltx]

Maybe it's also your consistency with diet and training for your lack luster long term results. Not just the drugs

100% correct.

Most of this board can't be consistent with their diet and training 365 days per year - if they could we'd see a lot more great physiques being posted. To my knowledge @KillerStack has never posted a picture of his current physique or his physique at its all-time best.

It's not the drugs. The drugs do virtually nothing if the stimulus (training) and raw materials (food) aren't there. The drugs are supplements that make everything else we do more effective.

 

[KillerStack]

Maybe it's also your consistency with diet and training for your lack luster long term results. Not just the drugs

Absolutely, could be.

However consider this. If someone here constantly asks about drugs but looks like shit, there are 2 types of a) responses as to why,

"You think it's all about drugs, you think if you just find the secret stack you'll finally start growing. Don't you understand the pros have elite genetics and probably don't need that many drugs!"

"You think it's all about dru...

... don't you understand the pros are pros because of their dedication, they eat, train and breathe this shit 24/7 for 10 years... you train like a pussy and eat like a bird! It's not drugs and it's not genetics, you just suck as a person!"

In my case, I've had problems eating enough. I've had problems training enough. I've weighed as much as 250 but was pretty fat. I've deadlifted 770 which took a lot of training, for example I pulled over 660 every week for 15 years straight (total years lifting, and deadlifting: 30+) . With my genetics that took a lot of hard, hard lifting. So yes, imo I could have been a better bb if eating and training better. Absolutely. But still, nothing would give me the fibers and and muscle attachment of someone else more gifted. If there's a 4 inch gap between my elbow crease and my bicep, what am I going to do? Lol.

Before you ask, I have taken zero physique shots EVER, like why take a pic of a turd? Lol.

Here's a rare pic of myself and the guy I coached at the world champs (he was third, Hadi won). I'm on the left. Also a rare pic of me lifting. Plus a pic of my friends bicep genes in retirement. I was 250 here, my friend weighed in at like 195. But if we compared biceps he has, without exaggerating, 3x the muscle, really depressing to me. Another friend wanted to do an interview for a print mag on his bicep training (what the accompanying photoshoot focused on). He was like, "write what the fuck ever, I do curls, what about it?" Lol.

Am I delusional and making excuses? I acknowledge I couldn't do everything possible, I couldn't eat 400 grams of protein for extended periods like I wanted to for example. I acknowledge genetics but maybe I blame them too much. I think I have a pretty good grasp on what drugs contribute after being immersed in this shit for 30 years.

 

[KillerStack]

100% correct.

Most of this board can't be consistent with their diet and training 365 days per year - if they could we'd see a lot more great physiques being posted. To my knowledge @KillerStack has never posted a picture of his current physique or his physique at its all-time best.

It's not the drugs. The drugs do virtually nothing if the stimulus (training) and raw materials (food) aren't there. The drugs are supplements that make everything else we do more effective.

Another perspective. Levrone bragged he ate hot dogs and chocolate milk and knew a total of 6 exercises before turning pro. Complete balonie of course but it's also the case that they can do everything very suboptimally but their physique can surpass someone training their whole lives within freaking days of starting training and/or juicing. Flex bragged that he was almost a pro eating tuna he scooped up with bread and having a Gatorade on top. Yes yes I know perfectly well these are anomalies and many good bodybuilders also do everything right for extended periods. It's equally true you eat and train like absolute shit and grow with excellent genetics provided a few needs are met, like calorie surplus, enough protein and at least some type of lifting. Just like it's delusional for the average man to think it's just drugs that separate them from the "pro" (though that designation is almost completely irrelevant these days as there are lots of turds with the "card"), it's delusional to think a guy with shit genetics can compensate for that all that much by being "dedicated" with chicken and rice 365 days a year. I've seen a lot of these also through the years.

 

[danieltx]

Another perspective. Levrone bragged he ate hot dogs and chocolate milk and knew a total of 6 exercises before turning pro. Complete balonie of course but it's also the case that they can do everything very suboptimally but their physique can surpass someone training their whole lives within freaking days of starting training and/or juicing. Flex bragged that he was almost a pro eating tuna he scooped up with bread and having a Gatorade on top. Yes yes I know perfectly well these are anomalies and many good bodybuilders also do everything right for extended periods. It's equally true you eat and train like absolute shit and grow with excellent genetics provided a few needs are met, like calorie surplus, enough protein and at least some type of lifting. Just like it's delusional for the average man to think it's just drugs that separate them from the "pro" (though that designation is almost completely irrelevant these days as there are lots of turds with the "card"), it's delusional to think a guy with shit genetics can compensate for that all that much by being "dedicated" with chicken and rice 365 days a year. I've seen a lot of these also through the years.

All you do is spout off info, often wrong, about others. You're one of the hardcore info collectors here that I've posted about.

Almost nothing you post is your own experience. You never achieved the physique you wanted so maybe that's why you have little to contribute. A great physique isn't required to be a great contributor here but it certainly gives credibility and I give you respect for posting some pictures today.

You're entitled to your view but that doesn't mean it's right. The most advanced guys here will tell you it's not right. There are plenty of guys on this board - myself, @luki7788, @TheOtherOne55, @D-NUTZ just to name a few - with the starting pictures to prove they didn't have great genetics but through years of dedication they built great physiques. And these are not all guys who drugged themselves to the max to achieve their physique. Did they push the drugs more as they became advanced? Sure, but it's not what got them there.

 

[m87r]

Absolutely, could be.

However consider this. If someone here constantly asks about drugs but looks like shit, there are 2 types of a) responses as to why,

"You think it's all about drugs, you think if you just find the secret stack you'll finally start growing. Don't you understand the pros have elite genetics and probably don't need that many drugs!"

"You think it's all about dru...

... don't you understand the pros are pros because of their dedication, they eat, train and breathe this shit 24/7 for 10 years... you train like a pussy and eat like a bird! It's not drugs and it's not genetics, you just suck as a person!"

In my case, I've had problems eating enough. I've had problems training enough. I've weighed as much as 250 but was pretty fat. I've deadlifted 770 which took a lot of training, for example I pulled over 660 every week for 15 years straight (total years lifting, and deadlifting: 30+) . With my genetics that took a lot of hard, hard lifting. So yes, imo I could have been a better bb if eating and training better. Absolutely. But still, nothing would give me the fibers and and muscle attachment of someone else more gifted. If there's a 4 inch gap between my elbow crease and my bicep, what am I going to do? Lol.

Before you ask, I have taken zero physique shots EVER, like why take a pic of a turd? Lol.

Here's a rare pic of myself and the guy I coached at the world champs (he was third, Hadi won). I'm on the left. Also a rare pic of me lifting. Plus a pic of my friends bicep genes in retirement. I was 250 here, my friend weighed in at like 195. But if we compared biceps he has, without exaggerating, 3x the muscle, really depressing to me. Another friend wanted to do an interview for a print mag on his bicep training (what the accompanying photoshoot focused on). He was like, "write what the fuck ever, I do curls, what about it?" Lol.

Am I delusional and making excuses? I acknowledge I couldn't do everything possible, I couldn't eat 400 grams of protein for extended periods like I wanted to for example. I acknowledge genetics but maybe I blame them too much. I think I have a pretty good grasp on what drugs contribute after being immersed in this shit for 30 years.

It´s to bad he never got his pro card. He looked great at his comeback in Denmark 2022.

 

[nothuman]

Absolutely, could be.

However consider this. If someone here constantly asks about drugs but looks like shit, there are 2 types of a) responses as to why,

"You think it's all about drugs, you think if you just find the secret stack you'll finally start growing. Don't you understand the pros have elite genetics and probably don't need that many drugs!"

"You think it's all about dru...

... don't you understand the pros are pros because of their dedication, they eat, train and breathe this shit 24/7 for 10 years... you train like a pussy and eat like a bird! It's not drugs and it's not genetics, you just suck as a person!"

In my case, I've had problems eating enough. I've had problems training enough. I've weighed as much as 250 but was pretty fat. I've deadlifted 770 which took a lot of training, for example I pulled over 660 every week for 15 years straight (total years lifting, and deadlifting: 30+) . With my genetics that took a lot of hard, hard lifting. So yes, imo I could have been a better bb if eating and training better. Absolutely. But still, nothing would give me the fibers and and muscle attachment of someone else more gifted. If there's a 4 inch gap between my elbow crease and my bicep, what am I going to do? Lol.

Before you ask, I have taken zero physique shots EVER, like why take a pic of a turd? Lol.

Here's a rare pic of myself and the guy I coached at the world champs (he was third, Hadi won). I'm on the left. Also a rare pic of me lifting. Plus a pic of my friends bicep genes in retirement. I was 250 here, my friend weighed in at like 195. But if we compared biceps he has, without exaggerating, 3x the muscle, really depressing to me. Another friend wanted to do an interview for a print mag on his bicep training (what the accompanying photoshoot focused on). He was like, "write what the fuck ever, I do curls, what about it?" Lol.

Am I delusional and making excuses? I acknowledge I couldn't do everything possible, I couldn't eat 400 grams of protein for extended periods like I wanted to for example. I acknowledge genetics but maybe I blame them too much. I think I have a pretty good grasp on what drugs contribute after being immersed in this shit for 30 years.

Man I’ve seen you posting for well over ten years between here and other forums. Now I can finally can put a face to all your posts

 

[KillerStack]

All you do is spout off info, often wrong, about others. You're one of the hardcore info collectors here that I've posted about.

Almost nothing you post is your own experience. You never achieved the physique you wanted so maybe that's why you have little to contribute. A great physique isn't required to be a great contributor here but it certainly gives credibility and I give you respect for posting some pictures today.

I'm an info collector, this is an interest of mine, what's wrong with that exactly? I never achieved what I would've liked, like most others actually, therefore I have little to contribute... then you say it's not required to have a great physique. If something I post is obviously wrong, by all means point it out, not saying I'm always right either. So here you have an issue with my opinion on genes and how important they are, what exactly is the problem? I acknowledge that proper nutrition and training are important. Then I say genes are doubly important, something which many, almost everyone, agrees with. But when someone without an elite physique says the same it's just an excuse, because the issue here is my lack of character, that's what it boils down to right? Who do you think should be allowed to "spout off info"?

I just posted about an elite competitor asking for my opinion the other day, he has a good coach, is close friends and training partner with a top pro. A very good pro, Mr O competitor, has asked for my opinion on a bunch of things. They think I know a bunch of things, and I'm not a coach or advisor or promote myself but they "heard" I knew some things. These guys can ask any number of "pros" for advice but often they don't... because the physique in itself doesn't always mean much. But I agree that a good physique does mean something and does add weight to arguments. Then again, Duchaine... not that I'm comparing myself to him in any way but people are asking if people have his old 30 or 40 year columns to post. One guy I think is a true expert on many things we are interested in, a stick figure, Lyle McDonald.

It´s to bad he never got his pro card. He looked great at his comeback in Denmark 2022.

Oh you know who it is. We go way back, to us being mid-teens training in the same gym. He was very good in 2018 also before he took a break. Narrowly missed his card. Second pic.

 

[KillerStack]

You're entitled to your view but that doesn't mean it's right. The most advanced guys here will tell you it's not right. There are plenty of guys on this board - myself, @luki7788, @TheOtherOne55, @D-NUTZ just to name a few - with the starting pictures to prove they didn't have great genetics but through years of dedication they built great physiques. And these are not all guys who drugged themselves to the max to achieve their physique. Did they push the drugs more as they became advanced? Sure, but it's not what got them there.

Again, what exactly did I say that all these guys will say is wrong? Where did I say bb is all about drugging yourself to the max or that you can be a bb without eating or training?

About genetics, the greats will say they can only be assessed fully in retrospect. You can tell some things by evaluating shape and muscle attachments but until you try you don't know exactly where you will end up. The most striking example is Nick Walker imo. Never would I have thought seeing the first pic that he would end up where he has. This does NOT mean he didn't have alien genetics - retrospect is the word. Or would you say he is more advanced than yourself because maybe you missed a meal or didn't go to failure on one set? Or will you blame drugs? Because there must be some reason, which is it?

 

[bbxtreme]

Again, what exactly did I say that all these guys will say is wrong? Where did I say bb is all about drugging yourself to the max or that you can be a bb without eating or training?

About genetics, the greats will say they can only be assessed fully in retrospect. You can tell some things by evaluating shape and muscle attachments but until you try you don't know exactly where you will end up. The most striking example is Nick Walker imo. Never would I have thought seeing the first pic that he would end up where he has. This does NOT mean he didn't have alien genetics - retrospect is the word. Or would you say he is more advanced than yourself because maybe you missed a meal or didn't go to failure on one set? Or will you blame drugs? Because there must be some reason, which is it?

I can tell you the biggest lesson I would tell someone regardless of genetics is you don’t miss meals.

If you want to know what builds an elite physique… it’s that right there. You can even be the hardest training MF in the gym. If you miss meals you will look like dog shit. You can blast 3-5g of gear. Doesn’t matter if you miss meals.

That’s the ONLY secret in this sport and nobody wants to talk about it because it’s boring as hell. Clean food 6-7 times a day, 365 days a year no excuses. As bodybuilders our lives revolve around eating.

 

[275bills]

If you use 250mg of test and 2iu of gh off and on for 20 years and look like shit
It's your diet and training

If you use 2500ng of test and 20iu of gh off and on for 20 years and look like shit

It's your diet and training

No difference

 

[275bills]

You say

why take a pic of a turd?

You have not been dieting and training hard enough..

400 grams of protein for extended periods ?

Then eat 200 grams. You still can look awesome on that much

We need to start practicing what we preach Mr info man

 

[KillerStack]

I can tell you the biggest lesson I would tell someone regardless of genetics is you don’t miss meals.

If you want to know what builds an elite physique… it’s that right there. You can even be the hardest training MF in the gym. If you miss meals you will look like dog shit. You can blast 3-5g of gear. Doesn’t matter if you miss meals.

That’s the ONLY secret in this sport and nobody wants to talk about it because it’s boring as hell. Clean food 6-7 times a day, 365 days a year no excuses. As bodybuilders our lives revolve around eating.

I agree. Although I can't speak from experience of having attained an elite physique, I can tell from the experience of having observed many good bodybuilders that they generally eat very well, they have good appetites naturally too. They always talk about food, they fantasize about their "free meals" constantly. Lol. I've actually said before how one characteristic of good bodybuilders is this food aspect. Maybe it's part genes too, they don't need mk-677 lol.

You say

why take a pic of a turd?

You have not been dieting and training hard enough..

400 grams of protein for extended periods ?

Then eat 200 grams. You still can look awesome on that much

We need to start practicing what we preach Mr info man

Look, I already said one of my failings has been my inability to eat as well as I would have liked. You don't think I didn't pick up the importance after decades of being so freaking interested in all things bb? Yes I know you should do your best, even if you don't hit an arbitrary number like in this case "400 grams" and that's what I've tried to do. I gave up my competitive aspirations in my early 20s due to disfiguring injuries, did one show only, after that I lifted hard, just because I love it, but the dieting aspect and being as lean as a competitor should didn't feel as important.

I know my posts are long, sorry, but I'm trying to explain where I'm coming from and posts like daniel's hit a sensitive spot lol. On the "Mr info man," I don't feel like I've misrepresented myself at least. A lot of my "info" is from personal experience, even if it's just from observation of others. I asked one poster about having noncompetitors as coaches and he said that some have a ton of experience, from just being coaches for so long, so observation is a kind of experience that can be valuable. Some here have hired coaches who never did it themselves, or attempted to but were worse than them when they were natural teens. Like that gentleman who coached Dallas in his early days, I doubt he knew from personal experience what taking 450mg of tren a few times a week (whatever it was, I go on memory from posts by members here) felt like. Rambod coached Heath and Cutler and Lunsford and what does he look like? He's said he competed though. Chad was/is a big fella and also says he competed, though he always acknowledged he could NOT diet himself. But he could set up Ronnie's diets lol. At the same time I'm completely aware of how important personal experience can be. Milos has a ton of experience, but maybe it's true what some say, he should not advice competitors on how to achieve ripped glutes because he didn't achieve it himself. Well, I think he is capable of getting someone ultra ripped, maybe he didn't achieve it himself partly because of genetic factors (yes I know what many will blame it on). He was harder than Rambod or Chad ever were at least lol.

 

[Eguz22]

Is being an info collector a bad or despicable thing? Isn't that all we are and do when we come to these places?

And among all of us, in the marketplace of ideas and knowledge, we refine that information to make it as truthful as possible.

"Evil ideas are dangerous only by default of men advocating better ideas.."

Ayn Rand

 

[aHarness]

Is being an info collector a bad or despicable thing? Isn't that all we are and do when we come to these places?

I think people just get frustrated when users constantly collect info but don’t apply it/execute the basics but are then upset with their results (or in this scenario, chalk it up to genetics)

I’m not saying genetics aren’t a huge factor, they are. Just giving an explanation as to why I’d imagine being an “info collector” has a bad connotation.

 

[b-boy]

Again, what exactly did I say that all these guys will say is wrong? Where did I say bb is all about drugging yourself to the max or that you can be a bb without eating or training?

About genetics, the greats will say they can only be assessed fully in retrospect. You can tell some things by evaluating shape and muscle attachments but until you try you don't know exactly where you will end up. The most striking example is Nick Walker imo. Never would I have thought seeing the first pic that he would end up where he has. This does NOT mean he didn't have alien genetics - retrospect is the word. Or would you say he is more advanced than yourself because maybe you missed a meal or didn't go to failure on one set? Or will you blame drugs? Because there must be some reason, which is it?

Lol when I seen Justin Compton YEARS ago, if someone would have told me he would one day be a top open pro BB I would have slapped them.

And @KillerStack I guess I'm the odd guy out as I enjoy your post, you often bring about a different perspective of issues discussed. I also agree about Lyle M. Looks like shit but a brilliant fucking mind when it comes to bodybuilding related things.

 

[bbxtreme]

I agree. Although I can't speak from experience of having attained an elite physique, I can tell from the experience of having observed many good bodybuilders that they generally eat very well, they have good appetites naturally too. They always talk about food, they fantasize about their "free meals" constantly. Lol. I've actually said before how one characteristic of good bodybuilders is this food aspect. Maybe it's part genes too, they don't need mk-677 lol.

Look, I already said one of my failings has been my inability to eat as well as I would have liked. You don't think I didn't pick up the importance after decades of being so freaking interested in all things bb? Yes I know you should do your best, even if you don't hit an arbitrary number like in this case "400 grams" and that's what I've tried to do. I gave up my competitive aspirations in my early 20s due to disfiguring injuries, did one show only, after that I lifted hard, just because I love it, but the dieting aspect and being as lean as a competitor should didn't feel as important.

I know my posts are long, sorry, but I'm trying to explain where I'm coming from and posts like daniel's hit a sensitive spot lol. On the "Mr info man," I don't feel like I've misrepresented myself at least. A lot of my "info" is from personal experience, even if it's just from observation of others. I asked one poster about having noncompetitors as coaches and he said that some have a ton of experience, from just being coaches for so long, so observation is a kind of experience that can be valuable. Some here have hired coaches who never did it themselves, or attempted to but were worse than them when they were natural teens. Like that gentleman who coached Dallas in his early days, I doubt he knew from personal experience what taking 450mg of tren a few times a week (whatever it was, I go on memory from posts by members here) felt like. Rambod coached Heath and Cutler and Lunsford and what does he look like? He's said he competed though. Chad was/is a big fella and also says he competed, though he always acknowledged he could NOT diet himself. But he could set up Ronnie's diets lol. At the same time I'm completely aware of how important personal experience can be. Milos has a ton of experience, but maybe it's true what some say, he should not advice competitors on how to achieve ripped glutes because he didn't achieve it himself. Well, I think he is capable of getting someone ultra ripped, maybe he didn't achieve it himself partly because of genetic factors (yes I know what many will blame it on). He was harder than Rambod or Chad ever were at least lol.

Jay Cutler hated eating. Most guys don’t deviate from their diet or plan as it’s essential.

It’s sticking to the meal plan, eating at the same time each day and having a clean free meal once a week if needed for sanity.

Top guys can’t afford to do it any other way because if you throw off meal time or cheat it’s not one meal, it throws your digestion off for a day or days for some.

On MK2677 I can say this is the first time I’ve ever used it. But for anyone who has ever truly pushed up in size it’s simply there to help you consume thousands of clean calories day in and day out.

It’s easy to eat 5k-8k of calories from shit. Try doing it with clean foods that bodybuilders eat everyday of the week for 6-12 months straight while feeling like a pregnant cow (@luki7788 perfect analogy).

It’s one thing to have the knowledge, it’s another to actually walk the walk (not hating). It’s something you can’t understand until you’ve done it IMO.

 

[trackstar19]

Jay Cutler hated eating. Most guys don’t deviate from their diet or plan as it’s essential.

It’s sticking to the meal plan, eating at the same time each day and having a clean free meal once a week if needed for sanity.

Top guys can’t afford to do it any other way because if you throw off meal time or cheat it’s not one meal, it throws your digestion off for a day or days for some.

On MK2677 I can say this is the first time I’ve ever used it. But for anyone who has ever truly pushed up in size it’s simply there to help you consume thousands of clean calories day in and day out.

It’s easy to eat 5k-8k of calories from shit. Try doing it with clean foods that bodybuilders eat everyday of the week for 6-12 months straight while feeling like a pregnant cow (@luki7788 perfect analogy).

It’s one thing to have the knowledge, it’s another to actually walk the walk (not hating). It’s something you can’t understand until you’ve done it IMO.

I never really appreciated the pain that it is to consume enough calories to correctly bulk after a certain size. I force fed myself egregious amounts of ‘clean’ food as a high schooler to initially go from a lean 145 to a lean 180+ … but from there I easily maintained a lean ~205lbs throughout my 20’s and I was content with that size. I would often avoid carbs and go low calories just to keep my shredded 205lbs. Crazy amounts of cardio, too.

I just recently decided I want to try to hit a lean 250lbs (starting point was 235lbs) and holy fuck lol I finally understand the eating like a bodybuilder thing. My body does NOT want to get heavier. I feel like a stuffed ass piggy all day and scale is moving slow as fuck. I’ve never eaten so much in my life. Reminds me of being a teenager again trying to bulk up. Once I hit a relatively lean 250 I’m hoping it’ll be easier to maintain that weight than it has been bulking to it

 

[Doitagain]

I never really appreciated the pain that it is to consume enough calories to correctly bulk after a certain size. I force fed myself egregious amounts of ‘clean’ food as a high schooler to initially go from a lean 145 to a lean 180+ … but from there I easily maintained a lean ~205lbs throughout my 20’s and I was content with that size. I would often avoid carbs and go low calories just to keep my shredded 205lbs. Crazy amounts of cardio, too.

I just recently decided I want to try to hit a lean 250lbs (starting point was 235lbs) and holy fuck lol I finally understand the eating like a bodybuilder thing. My body does NOT want to get heavier. I feel like a stuffed ass piggy all day and scale is moving slow as fuck. I’ve never eaten so much in my life. Reminds me of being a teenager again trying to bulk up. Once I hit a relatively lean 250 I’m hoping it’ll be easier to maintain that weight than it has been bulking to it

It's easier.
Getting there is the real struggle.

 

[Flex500]

Lol when I seen Justin Compton YEARS ago, if someone would have told me he would one day be a top open pro BB I would have slapped them.

And @KillerStack I guess I'm the odd guy out as I enjoy your post, you often bring about a different perspective of issues discussed. I also agree about Lyle M. Looks like shit but a brilliant fucking mind when it comes to bodybuilding related things.

View attachment 194823

Funny story....I competed with him in '08 at the upper ohio valley and he told me "I was huge". Justin and I have loosely kept in touch from then on. I didn't even realize it was him down the road when he was enormous and he send me a DM on FB and was like "hey I remember you, you were enormous". Too funny, right? The upper ohio valley was sort of an obscure but oddly popular show in SE ohio in the middle of nowhere. It was literally in a gym with windows to the outside with terrible lighting.


I also enjoy @KillerStack . Yeah he is a little all over the place but he's a humble dude and truthfully is pretty self reflective of his errors and woes. How many guys readily admit "yes you are correct, I don't routinely stick to my diet"? Not many... I know nobody here is attacking him personally but he just seems like a good did with a different perspective, even if I don't always agree.

I also have some pretty "crazy" views on this whole thing...I just don't share them as much as he does.