Full Body: One set to failure (daily) training / My Experience

[Flex500]

@Flex500 id be more worried about research showing close bouts of training lowers the hypertrophic response due to localized muscular inflammation from the prior bout.

In the study I think they used 8, 24, and 72hours. 8 hours the response was almost completely abolished, 24h severely hampered MPS response (but still a response) 72h was back to normal.

Of course they skipped 48h lol.

But I bet you could build a ED plan that 24h rest would still work….example using c/s/tri

Flat press……mid chest fibers
Db lateral raise- medial delt
Tricep pushdown (lateral/medial head)

Next day

-Incline press (clavicular chest) and anterior delt
-rear delt swings
-OH rope extension (long head of tricep)

That is a great point as well. Very quickly it does become easy to start stacking up reasons why this may not be the best and truth be told I don't think full body truly every single day would be most optimal. EOD or E3D I'd think would create the best results. Your point is great though and from a visual standpoint you may look bigger and fuller day to day but not really actually adding muscle.

 

[Dens228]

That is a great point as well. Very quickly it does become easy to start stacking up reasons why this may not be the best and truth be told I don't think full body truly every single day would be most optimal. EOD or E3D I'd think would create the best results. Your point is great though and from a visual standpoint you may look bigger and fuller day to day but not really actually adding muscle.

Years back Phil Hernon gave me a routine that was one set to failure per body part, body split in two, alternating every day until you felt you needed a day off. I may have to give it a go again. I didn't like it at the time, I can't really remember why. Maybe I just thought it wouldn't work.......lol
Now that I'm older and wiser maybe I should give it a fair shot.

 

[Flex500]

Years back Phil Hernon gave me a routine that was one set to failure per body part, body split in two, alternating every day until you felt you needed a day off. I may have to give it a go again. I didn't like it at the time, I can't really remember why. Maybe I just thought it wouldn't work.......lol
Now that I'm older and wiser maybe I should give it a fair shot.

Fullbody EOD or doing that upper/lower daily is probably the most logical and effective way to do it. Post it up if you have it would like to see it!

 

[Dens228]

"Day 1-chest, shoulders( shoulder presses) , triceps, quads, crunches
Day2- Back ( pull ups-rows) biceps, hamstrings, calvs.
Just rotate between days..........
Same exercises......declines or dips for chest/squats for quads.......stiff leg deads for hams.......rotate between seated and standing for calv.......1 set crunches..........HERE is the key......pick a weight you can do 7-10 reps with.........do set, rest 1 second, do next set, rest 1 second, do 3rd set..........train every day until u need a day off."

As I read it I remember what I didn't like. The rest "1 second" and do another set was pretty much impossible. I bet it would be great without that though.

 

[qbkilla]

"Day 1-chest, shoulders( shoulder presses) , triceps, quads, crunches
Day2- Back ( pull ups-rows) biceps, hamstrings, calvs.
Just rotate between days..........
Same exercises......declines or dips for chest/squats for quads.......stiff leg deads for hams.......rotate between seated and standing for calv.......1 set crunches..........HERE is the key......pick a weight you can do 7-10 reps with.........do set, rest 1 second, do next set, rest 1 second, do 3rd set..........train every day until u need a day off."

As I read it I remember what I didn't like. The rest "1 second" and do another set was pretty much impossible. I bet it would be great without that though.

Sounds almost like myo reps? Did he literally mean 1 second, or just take a quick pause and crank out a few more?

So like a rest pause set but instead of 12-15 breaths a much quicker rest.

 

[Dens228]

Sounds almost like myo reps? Did he literally mean 1 second, or just take a quick pause and crank out a few more?

So like a rest pause set but instead of 12-15 breaths a much quicker rest.

Nope, he said pause at the top, take a quick big breath between and do another. I was really quite impossible if you truly took the first set to failure.

 

[b-boy]

@Flex500 id be more worried about research showing close bouts of training lowers the hypertrophic response due to localized muscular inflammation from the prior bout.

In the study I think they used 8, 24, and 72hours. 8 hours the response was almost completely abolished, 24h severely hampered MPS response (but still a response) 72h was back to normal.

Of course they skipped 48h lol.

But I bet you could build a ED plan that 24h rest would still work….example using c/s/tri

Flat press……mid chest fibers
Db lateral raise- medial delt
Tricep pushdown (lateral/medial head)

Next day

-Incline press (clavicular chest) and anterior delt
-rear delt swings
-OH rope extension (long head of tricep)

Was this study done on ENHANCED athletes?

 

[juggy38]

Was this study done on ENHANCED athletes?

I’d bet a definitely not. Most training studies have exclusion criteria of no OTC supplements. I’m sure test and tren would be exclusion criteria

 

[qbkilla]

I googled a bit the repeated bout affect but it didn't seem like it stops hypertrophy, can any of the smarter guys (science...I suck) explain it to an idiot? Lol

Also the hypertrophic response the study says, how do they measure that? Protein synthesis, muscle fiber activation, or actual growth over time? I feel like it would be hard for them to measure the effects of frequent training unless volume was equated over time?

Either way one thing I've learned here is....just do what works...still interesting to discuss

 

[juggy38]

The distribution of eukaryotic initiation factor 4E after bouts of resistance exercise is altered by shortening of recovery periods - The Journal of Physiological Sciences

Insufficient duration of recovery between resistance exercise bouts reduces the effects of exercise training, but the influence on muscle anabolic responses is not fully understood. Here, we investigated the changes in the distribution of eukaryotic initiation factor (eIF) 4E, a key regulator of...

jps.biomedcentral.com

 

[juggy38]

Well it’s on rats, but let’s not just throw it out the window. And I know you fucking Neanderthals just like yelling “train hard, eat hard, up the dose”. I just enjoy the physiology of hypertrophy.


“Additionally, repetitive resistance exercise with excessively short recovery is known to highly activate mTORC1 [2,3,4]. On the other hand, as mentioned above, this type of exercise training does not induce the acute activation of muscle protein synthesis and chronic muscle hypertrophy even though mTORC1 is highly activated [2,3,4]. These facts indicate the possibility that an excessively shortened recovery influences the downstream targets of the mTORC1 pathway.
mTORC1 has two main downstream targets, p70S6K and 4E binding protein 1 (4EBP1), which are used as indicators of mTORC1 activity. “

“ However, some types of stress can cause mTORC1-independent effects on eIF4F complex formation. In a septic condition characterized by systemic inflammation, leucine administration is reported to increase the phosphorylation of p70S6K but not the phosphorylation of 4EBP1, the dissociation of eIF4E from 4EBP1, or the association of eIF4E with eIF4G in rat skeletal muscle [11]. Another study reported that sepsis also inhibited the association of eIF4E with eIF4G, but the phosphorylation of p70S6K, phosphorylation of 4EBP1, and dissociation of eIF4E from 4EBP1 were unaffected in rat gastrocnemius muscle perfused with insulin [12]. Repetitive resistance exercise with insufficient recovery is also known to activate inflammation [2,3,4]. Therefore, this type of exercise training possibly impairs eIF4F complex formation, even though mTORC1 is highly activated, which may contribute to the attenuation of chronic muscle hypertrophy and/or acute activation of muscle protein synthesis.”

 

[juggy38]

Short and sweet: daily bouts of training will still trigger mTOR and p70S6K, to a higher extent than 72h workouts. BUT MPS rates are lower the closer the workouts are together.

The downstream cascades that need to happen (4eBP1) seems to get fucked
if inflammation is too high (such as sepsis which is referenced from another study) or too much muscle damage from previous training sessions.

Things that increase muscle damage: training to failure, calcium ion influx (high rep sets to failure), training the muscle in stretched position, excessive volumes.


Do anabolics lower the residual inflammation from a session? I don’t know.

So frequent sessions should keep total volume down, keep reps per set lower (like no more 20 rep leg presses to failure), and don’t take stretched position exercises to hell and back (RDLs, preacher curls, overhead tricep extensions)

 

[juggy38]

Well it’s on rats, but let’s not just throw it out the window. And I know you fucking Neanderthals just like yelling “train hard, eat hard, up the dose”. I just enjoy the physiology of hypertrophy.


“Additionally, repetitive resistance exercise with excessively short recovery is known to highly activate mTORC1 [2,3,4]. On the other hand, as mentioned above, this type of exercise training does not induce the acute activation of muscle protein synthesis and chronic muscle hypertrophy even though mTORC1 is highly activated [2,3,4]. These facts indicate the possibility that an excessively shortened recovery influences the downstream targets of the mTORC1 pathway.
mTORC1 has two main downstream targets, p70S6K and 4E binding protein 1 (4EBP1), which are used as indicators of mTORC1 activity. “

“ However, some types of stress can cause mTORC1-independent effects on eIF4F complex formation. In a septic condition characterized by systemic inflammation, leucine administration is reported to increase the phosphorylation of p70S6K but not the phosphorylation of 4EBP1, the dissociation of eIF4E from 4EBP1, or the association of eIF4E with eIF4G in rat skeletal muscle [11]. Another study reported that sepsis also inhibited the association of eIF4E with eIF4G, but the phosphorylation of p70S6K, phosphorylation of 4EBP1, and dissociation of eIF4E from 4EBP1 were unaffected in rat gastrocnemius muscle perfused with insulin [12]. Repetitive resistance exercise with insufficient recovery is also known to activate inflammation [2,3,4]. Therefore, this type of exercise training possibly impairs eIF4F complex formation, even though mTORC1 is highly activated, which may contribute to the attenuation of chronic muscle hypertrophy and/or acute activation of muscle protein synthesis.”

And “you fucking Neanderthals” is a term of endearment

 

[RandomMachine]

Short and sweet: daily bouts of training will still trigger mTOR and p70S6K, to a higher extent than 72h workouts. BUT MPS rates are lower the closer the workouts are together.

The downstream cascades that need to happen (4eBP1) seems to get fucked
if inflammation is too high (such as sepsis which is referenced from another study) or too much muscle damage from previous training sessions.

Things that increase muscle damage: training to failure, calcium ion influx (high rep sets to failure), training the muscle in stretched position, excessive volumes.


Do anabolics lower the residual inflammation from a session? I don’t know.

So frequent sessions should keep total volume down, keep reps per set lower (like no more 20 rep leg presses to failure), and don’t take stretched position exercises to hell and back (RDLs, preacher curls, overhead tricep extensions)

I'm not really qualified to speculate on these things...but wouldn't taking steroids increase MPS regardless of what you do? Would that be enough to override the decrease from frequent sessions?

No idea, but seems like something to consider.

 

[tornquad201]

I think we need to ask how fast does it take a muscle to recover ? Bulgarians have said that a muscle can be trained again after 8 hours . With this training your doing only one set you should be ready the next day . If you do a exercise and got 13 reps then the next day you got 14 or more I’d say you were recovered . I’ve always went up in reps every workout there are some exercises that I might be consistent at sand reps for a few workouts then all of a sudden be up 2-3 reps . I’ve also have trained full body twice a day when off from work and bored and had great workouts . As stated this isn’t easy training it dam hard especially if you stick to hard movements like squats , RDL’s , declines , dips etc at my best this summer I squatted 455 x 30 and done dumbbell RDL’s 150x33 consistently every workout .

 

[qbkilla]

Short and sweet: daily bouts of training will still trigger mTOR and p70S6K, to a higher extent than 72h workouts. BUT MPS rates are lower the closer the workouts are together.

The downstream cascades that need to happen (4eBP1) seems to get fucked
if inflammation is too high (such as sepsis which is referenced from another study) or too much muscle damage from previous training sessions.

Things that increase muscle damage: training to failure, calcium ion influx (high rep sets to failure), training the muscle in stretched position, excessive volumes.


Do anabolics lower the residual inflammation from a session? I don’t know.

So frequent sessions should keep total volume down, keep reps per set lower (like no more 20 rep leg presses to failure), and don’t take stretched position exercises to hell and back (RDLs, preacher curls, overhead tricep extensions)

I've heard John Meadows say this in videos too about high reps being more fatiguing, why is this? I always thought higher loads or less reps were more fatiguing? I guess they just tax the cns more?

 

[pistonpump]

30 reps is still 30 reps and 1 rep is 1 rep so the muscle and joints are still moving even with lighter weights so I would think that even adds to wear on them. Compared to low volume heavy which also puts strain but the movement is less.... Just my thinking

 

[comedycentral]

"Day 1-chest, shoulders( shoulder presses) , triceps, quads, crunches
Day2- Back ( pull ups-rows) biceps, hamstrings, calvs.
Just rotate between days..........
Same exercises......declines or dips for chest/squats for quads.......stiff leg deads for hams.......rotate between seated and standing for calv.......1 set crunches..........HERE is the key......pick a weight you can do 7-10 reps with.........do set, rest 1 second, do next set, rest 1 second, do 3rd set..........train every day until u need a day off."

As I read it I remember what I didn't like. The rest "1 second" and do another set was pretty much impossible. I bet it would be great without that though.

Surely you’re still having to do 3-4 sets of warm up accumulation before your 1 set. Especially for someone like me late 40s and beaten up. I’m 4 sets minimum before a working set and that would be with a 10+ rep range. Lower rep would be another warm up set

 

[KTT]

"Day 1-chest, shoulders( shoulder presses) , triceps, quads, crunches
Day2- Back ( pull ups-rows) biceps, hamstrings, calvs.
Just rotate between days..........
Same exercises......declines or dips for chest/squats for quads.......stiff leg deads for hams.......rotate between seated and standing for calv.......1 set crunches..........HERE is the key......pick a weight you can do 7-10 reps with.........do set, rest 1 second, do next set, rest 1 second, do 3rd set..........train every day until u need a day off."

As I read it I remember what I didn't like. The rest "1 second" and do another set was pretty much impossible. I bet it would be great without that though.

Dens, it was always 7 - 10 repetitions, or alternating with 10 - 15 repetitions, for example?

 

[Dens228]

Dens, it was always 7 - 10 repetitions, or alternating with 10 - 15 repetitions, for example?

He always had me do the 7-10. I didn't stick with it very long, mainly because I didn't like it.