A little down hope to improve health with the next 6 months.

[dragonfire101]

Well this is kind of a spin off of my pituitary tumor thread. As you may know I was diagnosed with a pituitary tumor that has affected me physically and emotionally the past 1 ½ years. I had no will to workout, even though I desired too and had not done so in over 1 year up until 1 month ago. Thyroid shut down and testes. I have gained 50 pounds of fat even though my diet was decent, have become very week, tired all the time and emotional/moody. It really sucks. My test levels were tested at around 70 last.

I am taking a stand. It will be hard, but I am getting married in 6 months and I refuse to let this tumor affect my physical and emotional health. I have been only prescribed 200mg test EOW. I sent all my lab test to some advanced antiaging/ wellness centers and have explained my situation and what my current treatment is. Well many of the doctors felt my test levels were way to low and are going to be prescribing more test and GH if I want it. I am not exactly sure on the GH with my tumor though. Mine GH is very low though along with very low LH levels, TEST, THYROIDAND FSH. I am going to be receiving 300mg test EW and offered GH 1-1.5iu a day along with some HCG AND antiestrogens if needed.

So something like this will be what I will be taking.

HRT

200mg test CYP EW
2IU GH EOD maybe if can get prescribed
500iu HCG 2 consecutive days EW
Nolva/Adex maybe a little since I have developed so much breast fat and my body hormones have been so low This amount Of hormones will most likely increase a lot of estrogen.
Bromocriptine due to my high P. levels.
100mcg of synthroid

The difficult part is I am going to post my obese pictures the next couple of days, which are pretty embarrassing, but need to do it to motivate me to stay on track. I hope to show I can make a big transformation with very low dosages of Test and other hormones. Plan to have my test levels stay around the upper limit for the next 6 months around 1100.

 

[buffbabeca]

Dragon - i dont know you but i want to say congrats on taking stand and getting back to working out. congrats on getting married... take things one day at a time.. and keep your health as first priority.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

So something like this will be what I will be taking.

300mg test CYP EW
2IU GH EOD maybe
500iu HCG 2 consecutive days EW
Nolva/Adex maybe a little since I have developed so much breast fat and my body hormones have been so low This amount Of hormones will most likely increase a lot of estrogen.
Bromocriptine due to my high P. levels.
100mcg of synthroid

The difficult part is I am going to post my obese pictures the next couple of days, which are pretty embarrassing, but need to do it to motivate me to stay on track. I hope to show I can make a big transformation with very low dosages of Test and other hormones. Plan to have my test levels stay around the upper limit for the next 6 months around 1100.

I too was feeling really bad a few years ago (tired, depressed thought capacity, myalgia) and was then tested. At first they just found low test. Then I went to an endocrinologist who did more tests and my FSH and LH levels were also low. Off to the MRI machine I went. Nothing. I was given a HCG for two weeks and tested again and my test was up again. So then they knew I was physically capable of producing test and sperm but the chemicals to cause that production just were not there. For some reason that small group of cells in my brain just decided to shut down. I had never done AAS before then. I was obviously concerned. I encountered so many "We dont knows" and "We're not exactly sure hows" that I decided to research everything myself. Along with my time at the college library, I also read journals on the internet. I noticed that a lot of my searches on chemicals kept bringing up BBing forums. So I started reading them. I noticed that my symptoms (as are yours) were identical to those that a BBer experiences when coming off a steroid cycle. So, in a way, I sort of took a stand at that point in my life and took matters into my own hands. This is how I came to be here in the first place. OuchThatHurts was born.

Since that time I have done numerous AAS cycles including HRT so I listened to my doctors which is exactly what you should do. What you do beyond that is on you. I wish I knew more about the effects of GH on existing tumors but my research never surrounded GH and IGF-1.

For myself, test supplementation alone made me feel better. MUCH better. I'm sorry to have to admit this but as time went on I started taking a little each week/month. I learned first hand that the effects of test are dose dependant and follow a dose-respondant curve. Last year I went all year long at dosages similiar to what you're describing. Then a funny thing happened. I became as frustrated with the meds that I was with feeling terrible. So I decided to go off completely and reassess where I was chemically and then go on HRT pretty much for good. I did a wicked PCT of low-dose HCG, tamoxifen, and arimidex. And after 2 months, I dropped those. I'm happy to say that I've been off of EVERYTHING for two months now. My FSH and LH are back. Somewhere in the melee of all the hormonal turmoil, my pituitary and hypothalamus began to function normally again. I believe that what was actually low for me was GnRh or one of it's chemical cousins.

In your case you know exactly what is causing your low FSH and LH. Have your GH levels been tested yet? 200mg of test every other week should be a sufficient amount to bring you back to a normal level but maybe not a superphysiological level. My advice is get your GH tested first. If it's low, then you may have more pituitary supression going on than originally thought. What about the tumor? Is it still growing? Certainly you don't want to take anything that will increase the growth rate of a benign tumor. I don't know if GH will or not. That said, if it were me, I might tend toward something like this (my thoughts in bold):

200mg test cyp E5D
skip this GH
250iu HCG EOD (month on, month off)
Arimidex 1mg EOD
Bromocriptine due to my high P. levels.
100mcg of synthroid
325 mg enteric-coated aspirin ED

DF101, These are just some thoughts. What works for one person may not for someone else. You should increase your cardio and make sure you workout whatever you do... basically keep your head up and keep taking care of yourself like you are by listening to your docs and researching your problem as much as possible. It's tough. I've been there myself. SOunds liek you're doing good and congratulations on your engagement! You must be doing something right! LOL

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Well awesome then! Yes, you have a bit to lose but you look like I did at 250. One thing I notice on you is that you have some MEAT under that winter coat. That's good! You have a ton more muscle going in than some guys can achieve. I have pics of me looking worse than you do, trust me.

GIVE IT HELL BROTHER!

 

[dragonfire101]

250iu HCG EOD (month on, month off)

OTH have you read this udate yet. Maybe I will try this below.



AN UPDATE TO THE CRISLER HCG PROTOCOL

By John Crisler, DO



In my paper “My Current Best Thoughts on How to Administer TRT for Men”, published in A4M’s 2004/5 Anti-Aging Clinical Protocols, I introduced a new protocol where small doses of Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin (HCG) are regularly added to traditional TRT (either weekly IM testosterone cypionate or daily cream/gel). The reasons and benefits of this protocol are as follows, along with a new improvement I wish to share:

Any physician who administers TRT will, within the first few months of doing so, field complaints from their patients because they are now experiencing troubling testicular atrophy. Irrespective of the numerous and abundant benefits of TRT, men never enjoy seeing their genitals shrinking! Testicular atrophy occurs because the depressed LH level, secondary to the HPTA suppression TRT induces, no longer supports them. It is well known that HCG—a Luteinizing Hormone (LH) analog—will effectively, and dramatically, restore the testicles to previous form and function. It accomplishes this due to shared moiety between the alpha subunits of both hormones.

So, that satisfies an aesthetic consideration which should not be ignored. Now let’s delve into the pharmacodynamics of the TRT medications. For those employing injectable
testosterone cypionate, the cypionate ester provides a 5-8 day half-life, depending upon the specific metabolism, activity level, and overall health of the patient. It is now well-established that appropriate TRT using IM injections must be dosed at weekly intervals, in order to avoid seating the patient on a hormonal, and emotional, roller coaster. Adding in some HCG toward the end of the weekly “cycle” compensates for the drop in serum androgen levels by the half-life of the cypionate ester. Certainly the body thrives on regularity, and supplementing the TRT with endogenous testosterone production at just the right time—without inappropriately raising androgen OR estrogen (more on that later)—approximates the excellent performance stability of transdermal testosterone delivery systems for those who, for whatever reason or reasons, prefer test cyp.

But there’s another metabolic reason to employ this protocol. The P450 Side Chain Cleavage enzyme, which converts CHOL into pregnenolone at the initiation of all three metabolic pathways CHOL serves as precursor (the sex hormones, glucocorticoids and mineralcorticoids), is actively stimulated, or depressed, by LH concentrations. It is intuitively consistent that during conditions of lowered testosterone levels, commensurate increases in LH production would serve to stimulate this conversion from CHOL into these pathways, thereby feeding more raw material for increased hormone production. And vice versa. Thus the addition of HCG (which also stimulates the P450scc enzyme) helps restore a more natural balance of the hormones within this pathway in patients who are entirely, or even partially, HPTA-suppressed.

It is important that no more than 500IU of HCG be administered on any given day. There is only just so much stimulation possible, and exceeding that not only is wasteful, doing so has important negative consequences. Higher doses overly stimulate testicular aromatase, which inappropriately raises estrogen levels, and brings on the detrimental effects of same. It also causes Leydig cell desentization to LH, and we are therefore inducing primary hypogonadism while perhaps treating secondary hypogonadism. 250IU QD is an effective, and safe, dose. After all, we are merely replacing that which is lost to inhibition.

In my previous report I recommended 250IU of HCG twice per week for all TRT patients, taken the day of, along with the day before, the weekly test cyp injection. After looking at countless lab printouts, listening to subjective reports from patients, and learning more about HCG, I am now shifting that regimen forward one day. In other words, my test cyp TRT patients now take their HCG at 250IU two days before, as well as the day immediately previous to, their IM shot. All administer their HCG subcutaneously, and dosage may be adjusted as necessary (I have yet to see more than 350IU per dose required).

I made this change after realizing that the previous HCG protocol was boosting serum testosterone levels too much, as the test cyp serum concentrations rise, approaching its peak at roughly the 72 hour mark. The original goal of supporting serum androgen levels with HCG had overshot its mark.

Those TRT patients who prefer a transdermal testosterone, or even testosterone pellets (although I am not in favor of same), take their HCG every third day. They needn’t concern themselves with diminishing serum androgen levels from their testosterone delivery system. These patients will, of course, notice an increase in serum androgen levels above baseline.

While HCG, as sole TRT, is still considered treatment of choice for hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism by many , my experience is that it just does not bring the same subjective benefits as pure testosterone delivery systems do—even when similar serum androgen levels are produced from comparable baseline values. However, supplementing the more “traditional” TRT of transdermal, or injected, testosterone with HCG stabilizes serum levels, prevents testicular atrophy, helps rebalance expression of other hormones, and brings reports of greatly increased sense of well-being and libido. My patients absolutely love it. As time goes on, we are coming to appreciate HCG as a much more powerful--and wonderful--hormone than previously given credit.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Great article. I'm a big proponent of HCG during a cycle or HRT/TRT. This article is really interesting because not only does it show the benefits of HCG therapy (even when used alone) for increasing serum testosterone but now, in this article, is used as an adjunct to testosterone replacement to keep levels stable from one dose to the next. Since test cyp takes 3 days to reach peak concentrations (other esters like undecanoate can take a week or more!), you can actually time your HCG use to maintain stable serum testosterone levels. Stable is good.

When I return to HRT/TRT, I'm going to try this because I notice an increase in test levels within a day of taking 250iu HCG. I did mine IM with a 1/2 inch slin pin in the upper forearm. Next time I'm going to try subQ.

Thanks man and let me know how it goes for you. I seriously believe that HCG, over the duration of '06 is what saved my ass in the end. I was shut down hardcore but all my equipment was still in working order.

I have to warn people at the same time that high dose HCG is dangerous. I've heard of people doing 5000iu in a dose!!! That's the medicative equivalent of a kick in the nuts. Plus you risk permanently down-regulating your testes (specific cells) which would be primary hypogonadism. Not good.

 

[dragonfire101]

Went for my second opinion. Doctor is not to concernd about the tumor affecting me long term. Says it is very small and actually by the MRI it could just be and slightly abnormal shape pituitary since birth. He prescribed me Testim gel daily 50mg.He wa smore concerned the hypogonadism. He felt I must to used AAS heavly in the past and this has caused alot of the problems. He was pretty cool about the whole thing. I did not admit to anything did tell him a dabbled with prohormones at high dosages for 3-4 years. He was laughing. Says you you must of played football alot of football players come in here with hypogonadism from AAS use. e were laughing I told him ya I played football for a few years,but never heard of AAS until I was done playing. Says when I want children let him know and I will have to come off the Testim for awhile and start clomid and hcg.

 

[dragonfire101]

Damn this sucks. Been training hard for two months and still at 260. Body fat is down maybe a little and strength up. Arms must have grown an inch. 18-19'.

Think I going have to bump the test and add some t3 along with the synthroid
I'm on to get this fat loss going.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Dial back your calories dude! You have serious potential! Trying to get a big guys frame to support a boatload of muscle is easier than a litte guy forcing his body to do what it wasn't built to handle... You got the sweet end of the deal. Kaiser and myself learned this almost at the same time. We were big fucking power men. Shit, little me pushed 501 and that's no joke. Kaiser was pushing high 500's! Close to 600.

Seriously!

I've gone three months on boiled chicken breasts and brown rice (not now obviously)... I'm up to 230 myself. I'm jacked at 200...

I might have to revisit that hell again.

You're 260... if you like yourself at 240, you're going to love yourself at 220. You be happier than a pig in shit to see veins in your quads.

...and that's a promise!

 

[dragonfire101]

Dial back your calories dude

Thing is they are low. I think I'm just going to need to cut all the carbs. I'm on the low side now, but I always done good on no carbs. 220 would be good. I was 210 in the pic above and looked a little on the thin side to me.

Current Diet

Training days

meal 1- 1 grapefruit, 5-6 egg whites,1 whole egg, 2 turkey sausage

meal 2-turkey sandwich on flaxseed bread. Only 10 grams carbs total, 1 cup low carb yogurt or cotatge cheese.

meal 3- chicken and spinich,small apple

meal 4- protein shake

meal 5- post workout shake protein/carbs, super food

meal 6-lean beef, sweet potato, small salad


Off days accept the first 3 the same and meal 4 and 6 are just protein shakes and meal 5 is dinner and just protein and some type of greens no carbs.

Going to switch my training to my high volume and supersets. This is the only way I have ever been able to lean up and get that nice muscular look. Yes I like HIT,Dogcrapp methods, and they work for size and strength, but for me I can't lean up on thos etyp eog workouts even when dieting.

 

[oldfella]

Hey DF, I think you need to increase your protein and leave the carbs alone. You don't have that much in there now. Protein will help with repair and recovery. it is also slightly thermogenic so it will help burn some fat. See if that helps. Throw in some cardio 3-4x's a week at about 40 mins a go. This will help reduce fat levels. Also start eating more whole eggs. Maybe three whole and six whites. The yolks are not bad for you. Very high source of choline.

 

[JETHRO TULL]

Dragonfire, I am glad you've decided to go forward.

It feels much better than letting life happen to you. I understand that there is only so much a person can do when faced with an illness, but it seems like you've made up your mind to take the bull by the horns.

It looks like you've done and are doing your research as well. Nice job.

I'd like to hear and see how things go from here. My sisters thyroid is shut down as well. Her hair is even falling out.

 

[sszapdog]

ISN'T CABERGOLINE(DOSTINEX) USED FOR PITUITARY TUMERS?
GET OUT THE LOTION AND
GET READY FOR SOME SERIOUS WOOD

 

[dragonfire101]

ISN'T CABERGOLINE(DOSTINEX) USED FOR PITUITARY TUMERS?

Only certain kinds, such as prolactin secreting tumors.

 

[dragonfire101]

Hey DF, I think you need to increase your protein and leave the carbs alone. You don't have that much in there now. Protein will help with repair and recovery

Ya, have done this in the past the last month when those last few pounds of fat are hard to get rid of, but it appears I will need to do this all the way through my diet. I actually like to amino load with amino acids every few hours throughout the day when on no carbs.

I most likely will, bump my HRT dosage of 200mg test week to 400mg and see how I do with thatf or a little while.

I'd like to hear and see how things go from here. My sisters thyroid is shut down as well. Her hair is even falling out.

I keep you updated. I will post some pics in 6 weeks or so after I start some test at 400mg. To see ho much that helps.

That sucks about your sisters hair. Especiallly that she is a female. Mine is falling out a little, but my my skin and nails are really dry and I am always having hystamie reactions with my skin. Flushing red skin and hives that appera when stressed out that come an go for a few minutes. My head is too lumpy to shave so. I will just continue to use minoxidil,nizoral and spironolactone they do a decent job in preventing anymore falling out.