Amino acid profile

[PHIL HERNON]

What is a good one? WHat would be ideal for a bodybuilder? Explain the ration of each amino to another and why this is the best. When I say good one, I dont mean "Whey", or "Egg", I mean ratios. Can anyone give this a stab?

 

[xcelbeyond]

I don't have the knowledge to answer this one but am interested in the answer.

Isn't PER a measure of a protein's effectiveness (protein efficiency ratio)? I believe egg whites have the highest PER of any "food."

xcel

 

[PHIL HERNON]

GOOD POINT X

Actually, it is the whole egg that has the highest PER, the yolk is second, then the white is third. The yolk is second because it is so easily digestible. I never understood why anyone would just eat the ess whites by themselves. These guys want to get big on egg whites? 4 grams of protein per white is nothing, especially for a hard training bodybuilder.

 

[MikeS]

I agree that whole is are best-a well rounded food in itself. The fats (yolk) are somewhat offset by choline/inisitol from the yolk also.
I think the PER from egg is 3.0 (same as casien or colostrum) and whey is 3.2. So whey is highest PER.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Yes

But now you are talking about supplements. Beef would actually be a higher PER than any food but because of the problem with digestibility, it isnt top 5. If we are talking supplements, look at the 4.2 that liquid aminos from beef claim.

 

[xcelbeyond]

I think the PER from egg is 3.0 (same as casien or colostrum) and whey is 3.2. So whey is highest PER.

I believe you're correct - but my point was for "food." I don't consider whey a food - not saying it's not good, just that I don't consider it a food. Also - doesn't the "better" variations of whey like isolate have a higher PER?

xcel

Damn phil - you're quick!

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Hahaha

Yea X, I hav ethe weekend nights to myself since my fiancee works the 7-7 shift. I am bored out of my mind and have nothing better to do.

 

[BrooklynJuice]

As I know you know but will post it anyway. I dont think the AA profile of a particuliar meal is of any importance when consuming LARGE amounts of protein 500+gm/day.

Probably the best would be a cooked egged. Cooking is important, dont hink your hardcore if ya drink em raw. Cooking it does alot of good to the body, I believe it helps convert something toxic to biotin, been awhile since I read about that.

On the other hand free form amino are of some interest. Taurine is one of the sleepers.

 

[aj1]

Borresen wrote an article on food combining in issue #1 of the Governor. Here were the ratios he suggested:

Steak 40%
Chicken 60%

Steak 75%
Egg 25%

Steak 60%
Beans 20%
Egg Wht 20%

Chicken 70%
Egg Yolk 10%
Skim Milk 20%

Tuna 50%
Steak 50%

Milk 60%
Egg 20%
Casein 20%

Salmon 60%
Chicken 30%
Egg 10%

Pork 50%
Steak 50%

Neither agreeing or disagreeing...just throwing it out for discussion

 

[BrooklynJuice]

What each grouping is a day of meals? I dont even want to know how he came up with that.

 

[aj1]

I'm sure some of the Borresen voodoo went into the formulation.
If you look at the last grouping, I think he was trying to say that if you're eating pork, balance it equally with steak to get a better amino blend than if eating pork alone.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Interesting

I like that, thanks!

 

[Mr_Magoo]

this all depends on circumstances, after training an amino profile with more bcaa's and glutamine is very important, different profiles and best profile cannot be assigned to all times of the day

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Question

If a profile with more glutamine and BCAA is better after a stressful workout, why wouldnt it be better throughout the day?

 

[RicPhoenix]

physiology and nutrition

Hello all,

I will have to do my homework on this one but the questions you are asking Phil are tricky in that as BrooklynJuice said, if you are consuming plenty of protein the body does not select particular amino acids for use by using all the glutamines or BCAA's for tissue repair (by the way 500g/day as stated by BrooklyJuice is not necessary for this physiology to take place, it happens even for kids who may eat little protein)....all the aminos go into a storage pool of amino acids and then are used as they are required....some aminos may even be broken down and reconfigured into aminos that are required. The required aminos for muscle repair, are a combination of the essential aminos...and non-essential aminos to rebuild lean tissue or support the immune system after a tough workout.

Anyone else have an opinion or remember this stuff from biochem class?




New Jack Hustla

 

[Mr_Magoo]

Re: physiology and nutrition

Hello all,

I will have to do my homework on this one but the questions you are asking Phil are tricky in that as BrooklynJuice said, if you are consuming plenty of protein the body does not select particular amino acids for use by using all the glutamines or BCAA's for tissue repair (by the way 500g/day as stated by BrooklyJuice is not necessary for this physiology to take place, it happens even for kids who may eat little protein)....all the aminos go into a storage pool of amino acids and then are used as they are required....some aminos may even be broken down and reconfigured into aminos that are required. The required aminos for muscle repair, are a combination of the essential aminos...and non-essential aminos to rebuild lean tissue or support the immune system after a tough workout.

Anyone else have an opinion or remember this stuff from biochem class?




New Jack Hustla

this is another thing im tryin to get at, the body is very capable of re-configuring aminos to its specific needs, also i wouldnt say the profile is the most important thing, inherent characteristics of the protein needs to be considered, example whey being digested quickly while casein lingers and gives more of a trickle feed approach. im not sure if amino acid composition of particular proteins efects digestion rate but if it does, that should be considered as to what kind of protein u want

 

[Mr_Magoo]

Re: Question

If a profile with more glutamine and BCAA is better after a stressful workout, why wouldnt it be better throughout the day?

im not saying it wouldnt, but le tme try to put it another way. there are three aminos that make creatine, after a workout u may want an abundance of them to help mkae more creatine but these three may not have as much importance later on in the day, this is all hypothetical and i have it all in my head but have trouble putting onto paper

 

[BrooklynJuice]

Just eat boatloads of protein. Got enough to worry about with diet and pill popping to start getting into amino acid profiles. You eat 500gms of protein I bet your ass is covered. Doggcrapp has got that beaten into my head (i shouldnt used that expression, considering what happened to my head, lol) and Im always going up in poundages in the gym every week.

 

[mike man]

About the BCAA's

I think they recommend that you take in larger amounts of BCAA's post workout because it is at that time that your body can most assimilate them. They are already broke down into its most usable form, therefore get inot the bloodstream quickly. While dieting, I take in about 50-60 grams of BCAA's capsules during my workout. 5-7 between sets. Then immediately after I'm done while they are still circulating in my bloodstream, I take my slin shot with some carbs to really drive the BCAA's into the muscles.
It looked really good on paper and works quite well I must add.
Also take about 100-150 grams of a mix of amino tabs throughout the day between meals.

 

[aj1]

a little more info from issue #1 of the Governor...

Borresen also believed that a great combo of supplements was:
55g whey concentrate
15g soy isolate
20g casienate
10g egg albumin

He also believed the following to be the amino profile of human muscle

Amino Acid Profile (mg / g protein)
42.09 mg alanine
33.17 mg arginine
92.46 mg aspartic acid
21.36 mg cysteine
220.98 mg glutamic acid
24.62 mg glycine
19.60 mg histidine50.50 mg isoleucine
90.45 mg leucine
71.98 mg lysine
19.72 mg methionine
39.32 mg phenylalanine
72,61 mg proline
58,92 mg serine
60.93 mg threonine
14.45 tryptophan
30.65 mg tyrosine
41.08 mg methionine + cysteine
69.97 mg phenylalanine + tyrosine

intersting if nothing else...comments anyone?