another listening to your body thread...

[lucian]

you guys ever notice you put together lets say a 16 week "bulk"phase and you try like hell to get bigger but at a certain point you just get fatter. its lke you fill out , gain a little and then begin to get fat. and you decide to cut for like 16 weeks and for a bit you feel ok then that skinny feelin sinks in? well the past year i have decided to not compete. and since there is no time frame you dont have to make 16 week or whatever cycles rather go by feel. feel fat? diet for a bit. feel skinny? bring up the carbs and fill out. now there are not huge gains like this but its pretty consistant instead of bulking up and dieting down. now i have been doing the eat when hungry deal too.
question to mike1107 is this how you gained all this size without getting fat? bt not competing and shifting your metabolism back and forth? which now doesnt make sense to "bulk" for any reason. just try and gain and when you feel bloated or fat, stop. adjust to the new wt and then do it again. nothing planned just by feel?
what do you guys think? its just a theory i had and its been working pretty good so far.
god bless
lucian

 

[JohnnyPro]

All I can say is that I am constantly keeping an eye on my waist measurement. I am NEVER going to let myself get fat again. I go through hell trying to shed 20 or 30 pounds at my age (53) so slow lean gains are suiting me fine.

 

[abolish the weak]

My take on it is if your eating clean 90% of the time, then when you do eat something like spaghetti, pizza, or pancakes your body uses those foods in a positive way rather than making you fat. I think you just stay more anabolic this way. I'd rather gain 10 lbs of lean tissue and 5 lbs of fat in a year, than 40 lbs overall and have to shed it all down to realize I didnt gain like I thought I did

 

[lucian]

......

My take on it is if your eating clean 90% of the time, then when you do eat something like spaghetti, pizza, or pancakes your body uses those foods in a positive way rather than making you fat. I think you just stay more anabolic this way. I'd rather gain 10 lbs of lean tissue and 5 lbs of fat in a year, than 40 lbs overall and have to shed it all down to realize I didnt gain like I thought I did

even if you are doing all rice, oatmeal and potatoes you can still get fat. you cant gain forever just like you cant cut for ever. it takes learning your body and knowing when to pull carbs and when to put them in. getting fat doesnt automaticaly mean you are eating junk all the time. some guys dont eat junk but do gain fat easily. i was talking about eating clean bulking cycles. junk i think has no place in a bber book of tricks uness its a release mentaly or used for one of those shit loads which i still dont understand. now do i eat it stil anyways? yes occasionaly....cuz i like it. not for bbing.
god bless
lucian

 

[pesty4077]

If you are eating clean, maybe too many calories are making you fat.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

I could write 8 pages on this right now.....but in simpliest terms IMO

a) you should never do anything drastic to a diet that has worked for you....slight adjustments is all that is needed (see below)

b) you should be weighing in on the same scale with nothing but your underwear on, right out of bed at the same time, on the same day, every 2 weeks or once a month......and that will let you decide those adjustments

c) the exact diet that got you from 200 to 220 is not going to get you to 250 (amount wise) but vice versa if your 220 and eat like someone who is 300 with no cardio done, no fat burning supplements done, and no carb cycling....welcome to a fat 250

d) you always want to look at yourself first thing in the morning after that nighttime fast so the details of "bloated", stomach full from eating, etc etc are minute at best....and it can give you a generalized idea of what you are looking like. Alot of my trainees I have helped look like a million bucks upon arising and salt loaded waterlogged, full stomached, bodybuilders the rest of the day....but what they look like upon arising is truly them (the rest of the day is just methodology to the madness of trying to get them larger)

e) sometimes the road to 250 from 230 is as simple as 2 tablespoons of all natural peanut butter here, an extra scoop of protein powder there, and another pack oatmeal postworkout and continued adjustments like that, yet bodybuilders get that (obsessive compulsive crazyness) going again and throw what they are currently doing in the toilet....and replace that with some 8500 calorie bulk diet they read about. I dont think there is an endeavor on earth that is overanalyzed until you are absolutely bass ackwards as much as this one

 

[MAINEVENT]

I could write 8 pages on this right now.....but in simpliest terms IMO

a) you should never do anything drastic to a diet that has worked for you....slight adjustments is all that is needed (see below)

b) you should be weighing in on the same scale with nothing but your underwear on, right out of bed at the same time, on the same day, every 2 weeks or once a month......and that will let you decide those adjustments

c) the exact diet that got you from 200 to 220 is not going to get you to 250 (amount wise) but vice versa if your 220 and eat like someone who is 300 with no cardio done, no fat burning supplements done, and no carb cycling....welcome to a fat 250

d) you always want to look at yourself first thing in the morning after that nighttime fast so the details of "bloated", stomach full from eating, etc etc are minute at best....and it can give you a generalized idea of what you are looking like. Alot of my trainees I have helped look like a million bucks upon arising and salt loaded waterlogged, full stomached, bodybuilders the rest of the day....but what they look like upon arising is truly them (the rest of the day is just methodology to the madness of trying to get them larger)

e) sometimes the road to 250 from 230 is as simple as 2 tablespoons of all natural peanut butter here, an extra scoop of protein powder there, and another pack oatmeal postworkout and continued adjustments like that, yet bodybuilders get that (obsessive compulsive crazyness) going again and throw what they are currently doing in the toilet....and replace that with some 8500 calorie bulk diet they read about. I dont think there is an endeavor on earth that is overanalyzed until you are absolutely bass ackwards as much as this one

As always Dante, excellent post.

Copied and Saved!

 

[abolish the weak]

even if you are doing all rice, oatmeal and potatoes you can still get fat. you cant gain forever just like you cant cut for ever. it takes learning your body and knowing when to pull carbs and when to put them in. getting fat doesnt automaticaly mean you are eating junk all the time. some guys dont eat junk but do gain fat easily. i was talking about eating clean bulking cycles. junk i think has no place in a bber book of tricks uness its a release mentaly or used for one of those shit loads which i still dont understand. now do i eat it stil anyways? yes occasionaly....cuz i like it. not for bbing.
god bless
lucian

yes, ur very right about that, your body most certainly does get used to it, this is my primary reason for stating 90% of the meals clean. Therefore, lets break it down into 42 meals/wk or so, about 4-5 of those meals could be high calorie meals. Personally when I'm bulking i like to cheat once/day, I think it just throws your body off and keeps it from getting used to eating clean, as you mentioned. That was really what I was getting at

 

[Fa Seeshus]

"even if you are doing all rice, oatmeal and potatoes you can still get fat."


you can rotate your carb choices when you start getting too soft. for example, if you start to gain fat off of these starchy carbs, you could switch to lower glycemic vegetable based carbs. brocolli, sweet potato, greens, legumes, low gi fruit like apples, etc. this doesn't even need to be in a calorie restricted manner-- the simple switch can be enough.

 

[dya]

Excess Calories clean or not = fat gain.I learned that the hard way.....Seems a lot of guys are staying a little leaner these days in the offseason.I always go by the rule that you should still be able to see the outline of your abs in the offseason.Well,nowdays its different,as i have to keep my bodyweight a little lighter due to health Problems
It used to be great stepping on the scale and being 250lbs,but when i look back at some of my pictures i was just a fat ass

 

[FutureFreak]

I could write 8 pages on this right now.....but in simpliest terms IMO

a) you should never do anything drastic to a diet that has worked for you....slight adjustments is all that is needed (see below)

b) you should be weighing in on the same scale with nothing but your underwear on, right out of bed at the same time, on the same day, every 2 weeks or once a month......and that will let you decide those adjustments

c) the exact diet that got you from 200 to 220 is not going to get you to 250 (amount wise) but vice versa if your 220 and eat like someone who is 300 with no cardio done, no fat burning supplements done, and no carb cycling....welcome to a fat 250

d) you always want to look at yourself first thing in the morning after that nighttime fast so the details of "bloated", stomach full from eating, etc etc are minute at best....and it can give you a generalized idea of what you are looking like. Alot of my trainees I have helped look like a million bucks upon arising and salt loaded waterlogged, full stomached, bodybuilders the rest of the day....but what they look like upon arising is truly them (the rest of the day is just methodology to the madness of trying to get them larger)

e) sometimes the road to 250 from 230 is as simple as 2 tablespoons of all natural peanut butter here, an extra scoop of protein powder there, and another pack oatmeal postworkout and continued adjustments like that, yet bodybuilders get that (obsessive compulsive crazyness) going again and throw what they are currently doing in the toilet....and replace that with some 8500 calorie bulk diet they read about. I dont think there is an endeavor on earth that is overanalyzed until you are absolutely bass ackwards as much as this one

Everything here makes perfect sense. Golden post. Damn...I hate the off-season, I just cant eat that much food after a certain point and I NEED TO FILL OUT MY FRAME!!!! I need to save some cash and invest into a off-season specialist. I think I got the pre-contest part under control.

 

[pesty4077]

I could write 8 pages on this right now.....but in simpliest terms IMO

a) you should never do anything drastic to a diet that has worked for you....slight adjustments is all that is needed (see below)

b) you should be weighing in on the same scale with nothing but your underwear on, right out of bed at the same time, on the same day, every 2 weeks or once a month......and that will let you decide those adjustments

c) the exact diet that got you from 200 to 220 is not going to get you to 250 (amount wise) but vice versa if your 220 and eat like someone who is 300 with no cardio done, no fat burning supplements done, and no carb cycling....welcome to a fat 250

d) you always want to look at yourself first thing in the morning after that nighttime fast so the details of "bloated", stomach full from eating, etc etc are minute at best....and it can give you a generalized idea of what you are looking like. Alot of my trainees I have helped look like a million bucks upon arising and salt loaded waterlogged, full stomached, bodybuilders the rest of the day....but what they look like upon arising is truly them (the rest of the day is just methodology to the madness of trying to get them larger)

e) sometimes the road to 250 from 230 is as simple as 2 tablespoons of all natural peanut butter here, an extra scoop of protein powder there, and another pack oatmeal postworkout and continued adjustments like that, yet bodybuilders get that (obsessive compulsive crazyness) going again and throw what they are currently doing in the toilet....and replace that with some 8500 calorie bulk diet they read about. I dont think there is an endeavor on earth that is overanalyzed until you are absolutely bass ackwards as much as this one

GOOD POST!!

 

[speedbacker]

I could write 8 pages on this right now.....but in simpliest terms IMO

a) you should never do anything drastic to a diet that has worked for you....slight adjustments is all that is needed (see below)

b) you should be weighing in on the same scale with nothing but your underwear on, right out of bed at the same time, on the same day, every 2 weeks or once a month......and that will let you decide those adjustments

c) the exact diet that got you from 200 to 220 is not going to get you to 250 (amount wise) but vice versa if your 220 and eat like someone who is 300 with no cardio done, no fat burning supplements done, and no carb cycling....welcome to a fat 250

d) you always want to look at yourself first thing in the morning after that nighttime fast so the details of "bloated", stomach full from eating, etc etc are minute at best....and it can give you a generalized idea of what you are looking like. Alot of my trainees I have helped look like a million bucks upon arising and salt loaded waterlogged, full stomached, bodybuilders the rest of the day....but what they look like upon arising is truly them (the rest of the day is just methodology to the madness of trying to get them larger)

e) sometimes the road to 250 from 230 is as simple as 2 tablespoons of all natural peanut butter here, an extra scoop of protein powder there, and another pack oatmeal postworkout and continued adjustments like that, yet bodybuilders get that (obsessive compulsive crazyness) going again and throw what they are currently doing in the toilet....and replace that with some 8500 calorie bulk diet they read about. I dont think there is an endeavor on earth that is overanalyzed until you are absolutely bass ackwards as much as this one

Love reading this guy's posts.

 

[lucian]

....

"even if you are doing all rice, oatmeal and potatoes you can still get fat."


you can rotate your carb choices when you start getting too soft. for example, if you start to gain fat off of these starchy carbs, you could switch to lower glycemic vegetable based carbs. brocolli, sweet potato, greens, legumes, low gi fruit like apples, etc. this doesn't even need to be in a calorie restricted manner-- the simple switch can be enough.

question, what if the person is stuck 235lb and eating te lower gi foods ect. and wants to get to the next level? what you are explaining is basic bbing nutrition. what i am talking about is way more advanced and takes years to get to know ones own self. some longer than others.
rpelace complex carbs with fibers? well im not too sure anyone got to over 250 eating brocolli and skimping on the carbs and calories. plus cetain foods dont work good for aome people. i ate white rice, pro powder, oatmeal,and plenty of water on the day of a show. the opposite if everyone else was doing. and was still hard and full cause i listened to my body. when i followed a planned protocol for the pitt, i was flat, smoothe and looked like shit. in 2 weeks of listening to my body i improved so much people were shocked at the show. the only one i remember is yates saying he eats 3500 cal and grows and he looked like a water buffalo even with no junk and all good food. same with ronnie. clean food and got fat in offseason.. after a certain bdywt its hard to get to the next step. for me 230 was hard to pass. then 245 was hard to pass. anyone who saw me last summer i was pushing about 259 and was still in good shape.simply by listening to my body. people thought i was on some secret drug or something. just eating clean and LISTENING to how i feel. its not about carb cycle ect. its about listening to your body on when to carb cycle ect and not just write it on a paper and follow it and whatever happen, happens.
this goes back to toopowerful4u psot with the valintino video. to get to the next level......find out how YOU work,
god bless
lucian

 

[lucian]

......

ok lests put this thread back in the right direction.
we all know how to carb cycle. we know how to add fat to sugars to slow them down. we know how to carb delete and load. these are intermediate nutrition tricks in bbing. but gettig to the ext level......pro size, pro quality,...even national level, theres more to it than the basics. what doggcrap and phil do best is interpete what your body is telling you when you have no idea what it is saying. they know how the body grows and what the signals are to look for. a lot if us dont know that cuz we are too bust reading bbing mags and trying the new routines this pro or that pro uses. back in the day i bet these guys didnt even look at the mags. they went in the gym and found what works and in the process became masters of the human bodies.we all need to take a lesson from these guys.
god bless
lucian

 

[Fa Seeshus]

to further your individual listening point, we have to realize that alot of the "Rules" we see in the magazines are simplifications of what the pro is actually doing, or downright lies.

also you can't just focus on where you are going, you need to take into consideration where you are coming from. for example, if you are watching the Maryland Muscle Machine and looking at the sheer amount of calories Kevin Levrone uses in his prep for the 2000 olympia, you need to keep in mind that Kevin was coming from an off-season weight that was BELOW his contest weight. You can't just copy his diet and assume it will work for a pre-contest situation where you are dieting down to your competition weight.

regardless of individuality, i do not believe that mcdonalds apple pies are a viable bodybuilding staple.

 

[lucian]

.....

to further your individual listening point, we have to realize that alot of the "Rules" we see in the magazines are simplifications of what the pro is actually doing, or downright lies.

also you can't just focus on where you are going, you need to take into consideration where you are coming from. for example, if you are watching the Maryland Muscle Machine and looking at the sheer amount of calories Kevin Levrone uses in his prep for the 2000 olympia, you need to keep in mind that Kevin was coming from an off-season weight that was BELOW his contest weight. You can't just copy his diet and assume it will work for a pre-contest situation where you are dieting down to your competition weight.

regardless of individuality, i do not believe that mcdonalds apple pies are a viable bodybuilding staple.

exactly. kevin did what worked for him, cutler, what works for him. dorian took mentzers training which seemed to make sense to him and modified it to make blood and guts so it worked better for him.as far as mcdonalds not being good for bbing....i think the mighty lee priest would disagree. mass wise he is one of the biggest bros ever. 5 foot 4 and 275lb? biiiiig. and great shape too. he ate all kindsa crap that supposedly doesnt build muscle and makes you fat. he had to diet hard but he sure as hell looked great.bottom line is stop listening to everyone and listen to you. all the scince bullshit in the magazines is just that. bullshit. its all paper talk. just cuz on paper nolvadex reduces igf1 doesnt mean lit kills your gains. hell before arimadex ect all these guys had was nolvadex and they were still big as shit. advil stops muscle growth? tom prince sitting at 300lb before he got sick was eating like 20 advil a day and got huge. its all a process. and you cant tell just by looking at some one that they found what works for them. drug wise, diet wise, and training wise.
god bless
lucian

 

[lucian]

to further your individual listening point, we have to realize that alot of the "Rules" we see in the magazines are simplifications of what the pro is actually doing, or downright lies.

also you can't just focus on where you are going, you need to take into consideration where you are coming from. for example, if you are watching the Maryland Muscle Machine and looking at the sheer amount of calories Kevin Levrone uses in his prep for the 2000 olympia, you need to keep in mind that Kevin was coming from an off-season weight that was BELOW his contest weight. You can't just copy his diet and assume it will work for a pre-contest situation where you are dieting down to your competition weight.

regardless of individuality, i do not believe that mcdonalds apple pies are a viable bodybuilding staple.

again why are we talking about kevin? he was one of a kind. but he knew his body and that is the whole point of this thred.
god bless
lucian

 

[lucian]

.....

yes, ur very right about that, your body most certainly does get used to it, this is my primary reason for stating 90% of the meals clean. Therefore, lets break it down into 42 meals/wk or so, about 4-5 of those meals could be high calorie meals. Personally when I'm bulking i like to cheat once/day, I think it just throws your body off and keeps it from getting used to eating clean, as you mentioned. That was really what I was getting at

i get it its the whole metabolic momentum. trick your body into using the added calories and it will get faster.

it just seems to me if you start trying to push your wt too far too fast bulking above 240+ pounds the whole game changes. some stay leaner easier some get fatfaster. and since your body changes day to day, then it makes sense to adjust day to day and not just follow a plan on paper.
god bless
lucian

 

[Dangkolo]

ok lests put this thread back in the right direction.
we all know how to carb cycle. we know how to add fat to sugars to slow them down. we know how to carb delete and load. these are intermediate nutrition tricks in bbing. but gettig to the ext level......pro size, pro quality,...even national level, theres more to it than the basics. what doggcrap and phil do best is interpete what your body is telling you when you have no idea what it is saying. they know how the body grows and what the signals are to look for. a lot if us dont know that cuz we are too bust reading bbing mags and trying the new routines this pro or that pro uses. back in the day i bet these guys didnt even look at the mags. they went in the gym and found what works and in the process became masters of the human bodies.we all need to take a lesson from these guys.
god bless
lucian

I have not bought a bodybuilding mag in a couple yrs. Never will I waist my money on them again..........