Anyone understand the science behind winny and joint pain?

[Drift Wood]

It's not uncommon for people, myself included, to experience joint pain while on winny... For me, the joint pain induced by winny makes the use of the compound prohibitive...

I'm just wondering if anyone understands the science behind why winny causes joint pain???

Thanks

 

[WOC1776]

Is it from less water around the joints?

 

[emeric delczeg]

It's not uncommon for people, myself included, to experience joint pain while on winny... For me, the joint pain induced by winny makes the use of the compound prohibitive...

I'm just wondering if anyone understands the science behind why winny causes joint pain???

Thanks

Only if you take more than 50mg per day.

 

[emeric delczeg]

Is it from less water around the joints?

No.

 

[kid1dakota]

Its not as simple as "water" or synovial fluid.

Actually, Winny increased synovial fluid when directly injected in studies for RA.

Stanzolol is a DHT derivative.

DHT administration has been found to decrease estrogen levels .

DHT also has a negative effect on Progesterone .

And this reduction in Estrogen/Progesterone, caused by DHT, reduces your body's production of anti-inflammatory and painkilling cytokines.Also , bone mineral density and collagen will suffer and all this together makes joints hurt.

 

[FRKNHUGE]

kid1 just hit it like sammy sosa

frk

 

[Stewie Griffon]

i guess i have been lucky, i have never experienced pain from winny. i never have used it for any length of time, perhaps that is why. winny always makes me very strong

maybe like everything else, some people get worse sides than others

i also never get the pain people say they get when injecting winny

now that i'm thinking about it, i havent seen any good water based winny in years

 

[emeric delczeg]

taking last

Taking more is not always better.

V Falanga, A S Greenberg, L Zhou, S M Ochoa, A B Roberts, A Falabella, Y Yamaguchi
University of Miami School of Medicine, Department of Dermatology, Miami Veterans Affairs Medical Center, Florida, USA.
There is evidence that anabolic steroids, which are derived from testosterone and have markedly less androgenic activity, promote tissue growth and enhance tissue repair; however, the mechanisms involved in their anabolic activities remain unclear. In this report, we measured the effect of the anabolic steroid stanozolol on cell replication and collagen synthesis in cultures of adult human dermal fibroblasts. Stanozolol (0.625-5 microg per ml) had no effect on fibroblast replication and cell viability (p = 0.764) but enhanced collagen synthesis (p < 0.01) in a dose-dependent manner (r = 0.907). Stanozolol also increased (by 2-fold) the mRNA levels of alpha1 (I) and alpha1 (III) procollagen and, to a similar extent, upregulated transforming growth factor-beta1 (TGF-beta1) mRNA and peptide levels (p < 0.001). There was no stimulation of collagen synthesis by testosterone. The stimulatory effects of stanozolol on collagen synthesis were blocked by a TGF-beta1 anti-sense oligonucleotide, by antibodies to TGF-beta, and in dermal fibroblast cultures derived from TGF-beta1 knockout mice. We conclude that collagen synthesis is increased by the anabolic steroid stanozolol and that, for the most part, this effect is due to TGF-beta1. These findings point to a novel mechanism of action of anabolic steroids.
Keywords: stanozolol; tgf-beta; anabolic steroid; collagen synthesy; collagen; anabolic; steroid; synthesy; fibroblast; testosterone; dermal fibroblast; stimulation; dermal; alpha; replication

 

[jamez]

A few years back when I had a dr prescribing what I wanted.. I took 100mg winstrol caps daily. Somewhere between the 2nd-3rd week my joints started crackling and had alot of pain.. more is def. not better with winny.

 

[Drift Wood]

Its not as simple as "water" or synovial fluid.

Actually, Winny increased synovial fluid when directly injected in studies for RA.

Stanzolol is a DHT derivative.

DHT administration has been found to decrease estrogen levels .

DHT also has a negative effect on Progesterone .

And this reduction in Estrogen/Progesterone, caused by DHT, reduces your body's production of anti-inflammatory and painkilling cytokines.Also , bone mineral density and collagen will suffer and all this together makes joints hurt.

Excellent. Thank you.

The bottom line is that winny makes my joint fucking ache... I just really enjoy understanding the science behind it all...

 

[emeric delczeg]

Excellent. Thank you.

The bottom line is that winny makes my joint fucking ache... I just really enjoy understanding the science behind it all...

Only if you taking to much.

 

[bernimx]

Stanzolol is a DHT derivative.

DHT administration has been found to decrease estrogen levels .

DHT also has a negative effect on Progesterone .

.

I got a question for you. If someone usually have to control estrogen via aromatase inhibitors when cycling testosterone, could adding winny into the mix permit not to use an AI since it decreases estrogen levels by itself?

 

[hemipower]

Only if you taking to much.

I experienced it at 25mg/day...at 10mg I am fine. Like everything else, slightly different effect on different people.

 

[ericraven2003]

I experienced it at 25mg/day...at 10mg I am fine. Like everything else, slightly different effect on different people.

I did to. To the point I had to get off. Happened twice.I willl not use it anymore.

 

[Kaladryn]

Taking more is not always better.

V Falanga, A S Greenberg, L Zhou, S M Ochoa, A B Roberts, A Falabella, Y Yamaguchi
University of Miami School of Medicine, Department of Dermatology, Miami Veterans Affairs Medical Center, Florida, USA.
There is evidence that anabolic steroids, which are derived from testosterone and have markedly less androgenic activity, promote tissue growth and enhance tissue repair; however, the mechanisms involved in their anabolic activities remain unclear. In this report, we measured the effect of the anabolic steroid stanozolol on cell replication and collagen synthesis in cultures of adult human dermal fibroblasts. Stanozolol (0.625-5 microg per ml) had no effect on fibroblast replication and cell viability (p = 0.764) but enhanced collagen synthesis (p < 0.01) in a dose-dependent manner (r = 0.907). Stanozolol also increased (by 2-fold) the mRNA levels of alpha1 (I) and alpha1 (III) procollagen and, to a similar extent, upregulated transforming growth factor-beta1 (TGF-beta1) mRNA and peptide levels (p < 0.001). There was no stimulation of collagen synthesis by testosterone. The stimulatory effects of stanozolol on collagen synthesis were blocked by a TGF-beta1 anti-sense oligonucleotide, by antibodies to TGF-beta, and in dermal fibroblast cultures derived from TGF-beta1 knockout mice. We conclude that collagen synthesis is increased by the anabolic steroid stanozolol and that, for the most part, this effect is due to TGF-beta1. These findings point to a novel mechanism of action of anabolic steroids.
Keywords: stanozolol; tgf-beta; anabolic steroid; collagen synthesy; collagen; anabolic; steroid; synthesy; fibroblast; testosterone; dermal fibroblast; stimulation; dermal; alpha; replication

Possible theory: "Enhanced Collagen synthesis" could easily lead to tendinosis, collagen fibers repairing tendons start out as type III, it takes time for them to mature to type I, too much of the tendon as type III=tendinosis.

 

[tri-terror]

Is there any difference in the pain or lack therof with inject vs. oral?
Is oil based winny any good? Anyone that has had the water based version is and has been out.

 

[Nssca]

So if you take 51mg your fucked?

 

[Rlhammer]

It seems to give me tendon problems in the elbows. I run deca with winny and drink more water. the joint pain from winny seem to get worse with age for me, and when comming off. still love winny!!!!!

 

[mature muscle]

never tried winny. but primo just cripples me i just cant touch the stuff. its that hole family off AAS. i would like to try masteron but hate to waist the money if it has the same results as primo

 

[kid1dakota]

I got a question for you. If someone usually have to control estrogen via aromatase inhibitors when cycling testosterone, could adding winny into the mix permit not to use an AI since it decreases estrogen levels by itself?

I answered your PM but I will answer here also:

I think winny would help a little but would not be strong enough. especially on large doses of testosterone with the possibility of lots of aromatization or for those that are hyper -sensitive to estrogen.A combination of things cause the joint pain from winstrol,not just the estrogen component of the equation.

Plus you need to run an AI for extended periods of time and winny would wreak havoc on the liver and lipids used continuosly.
Also the joint pain experienced by most would make this not a good option either.