Article: Deca-Durabolin Weakens Tendons and Collagen

[GeauxDATY]

While using aas muscle hypertrophy is significantly increased and correspondingly strength increases. The fact is that tendons can not keep up and eventually will fail if over stressed by the muscles. My .02

 

[amazinspiderman]

Back in the day when i used deca never felt my joints weaker. Winstrol on the other hand......

 

[discohornet]

Luckily my rat, nor my rabbit has never had a problem with deca. But this study seems weird, is it the AAS causing the injuries, or the high intensity heavy weights?

They made both groups of rats do the same kind of exercise. One group of rats got Nandrolone, the other didn't. The Nandrolone group of rats had weaker tendons and lacked IGF expression. It's pretty straightforward.

 

[discohornet]

I call bullshit on this article due to injury is based on workload, form and or improper rest or straining!

Deca helped a old shoulder injury from high school heal for me....

DECA has been added to regimes to help tons of guys with injuries, a friend mine used deca to help heal a bicep tear and improved his recovery time drastically..

Did you even read the study abstract? I will give you one thing - this was a study done on rats. Humans might pan out differently. But until we know for sure, until studies have been done to either back up or contradict these findings- it really does no one any good to make statements like this.

Two groups of rats - one of them got deca, the other didn't. Both groups were put through a workout. Then they got cut up. I know, it's fucked up, but someone's gotta do it.

Dissection showed that Deca turned off IGF-1 mRNA transcription in tendons. This means that Rats given Deca did not have healing in their tendons. The rats who were natural DID.

This isn't some theory pulled out of the air. It really really irks me when people on boards pull out this kind of argument against scientific evidence.

You don't know what caused your shoulder to heal. Your buddies don't know what caused their tears to heal. You only have correlation here. In other words, you were using Deca at a time when you had a shoulder problem and slowly that shoulder problem went away. But that doesn't mean that Deca healed your shoulder problem, does it?


I think it's always helpful to use your experiences and other's as a guide through life's adventures, but please don't confuse that anecdotal evidence with scientifically sound studies. Oh, and don't continue to think the whole scientific world has it out to screw bodybuilders over. They are just scientists, performing scientific studies. If anything they were probably hoping that it DID cause healing. Because you know, they would love to find something that would heal people from injuries. It's the only reason any AAS has been studied at all in the past 10 years. Because its only real value lies in its ability to heal tissue. Unfortunately though, we're finding out that tendon is one type of tissue that it doesn't heal.

 

[CDJack]

You are one of the most intelligent and sane people on this board. Thank god there's at least someone with a brain here

Did you even read the study abstract? I will give you one thing - this was a study done on rats. Humans might pan out differently. But until we know for sure, until studies have been done to either back up or contradict these findings- it really does no one any good to make statements like this.

Two groups of rats - one of them got deca, the other didn't. Both groups were put through a workout. Then they got cut up. I know, it's fucked up, but someone's gotta do it.

Dissection showed that Deca turned off IGF-1 mRNA transcription in tendons. This means that Rats given Deca did not have healing in their tendons. The rats who were natural DID.

This isn't some theory pulled out of the air. It really really irks me when people on boards pull out this kind of argument against scientific evidence.

You don't know what caused your shoulder to heal. Your buddies don't know what caused their tears to heal. You only have correlation here. In other words, you were using Deca at a time when you had a shoulder problem and slowly that shoulder problem went away. But that doesn't mean that Deca healed your shoulder problem, does it?


I think it's always helpful to use your experiences and other's as a guide through life's adventures, but please don't confuse that anecdotal evidence with scientifically sound studies. Oh, and don't continue to think the whole scientific world has it out to screw bodybuilders over. They are just scientists, performing scientific studies. If anything they were probably hoping that it DID cause healing. Because you know, they would love to find something that would heal people from injuries. It's the only reason any AAS has been studied at all in the past 10 years. Because its only real value lies in its ability to heal tissue. Unfortunately though, we're finding out that tendon is one type of tissue that it doesn't heal.

 

[sbaker1061]

ok i think we agree that some agree and some do not

I THINK THE BIGGEST QUESTION THAT NEEDS ANSWERED IS

What can we take that will build tendons and help us not tear a joint up!!!???

i think this answer is more valuable --anyone know the answer????

 

[bubbafrombama]

They made both groups of rats do the same kind of exercise. One group of rats got Nandrolone, the other didn't. The Nandrolone group of rats had weaker tendons and lacked IGF expression. It's pretty straightforward.

Did you even read the study abstract? I will give you one thing - this was a study done on rats. Humans might pan out differently. But until we know for sure, until studies have been done to either back up or contradict these findings- it really does no one any good to make statements like this.

Two groups of rats - one of them got deca, the other didn't. Both groups were put through a workout. Then they got cut up. I know, it's fucked up, but someone's gotta do it.

Dissection showed that Deca turned off IGF-1 mRNA transcription in tendons. This means that Rats given Deca did not have healing in their tendons. The rats who were natural DID.

This isn't some theory pulled out of the air. It really really irks me when people on boards pull out this kind of argument against scientific evidence.

You don't know what caused your shoulder to heal. Your buddies don't know what caused their tears to heal. You only have correlation here. In other words, you were using Deca at a time when you had a shoulder problem and slowly that shoulder problem went away. But that doesn't mean that Deca healed your shoulder problem, does it?

I think it's always helpful to use your experiences and other's as a guide through life's adventures, but please don't confuse that anecdotal evidence with scientifically sound studies. Oh, and don't continue to think the whole scientific world has it out to screw bodybuilders over. They are just scientists, performing scientific studies. If anything they were probably hoping that it DID cause healing. Because you know, they would love to find something that would heal people from injuries. It's the only reason any AAS has been studied at all in the past 10 years. Because its only real value lies in its ability to heal tissue. Unfortunately though, we're finding out that tendon is one type of tissue that it doesn't heal.

I'm so glad you took the time to type all that out, brother! It's always amazing when you have some making claims based on zero empirical data, and then they turn around and criticize data that does have just such. Go figure - Bro-science at it's best!

You are one of the most intelligent and sane people on this board. Thank god there's at least someone with a brain here

I couldn't agree more!

 

[bubbafrombama]

Deca is great for collagen Synth, along with EQ, primo.

The scientific article I posted claims otherwise with actual analytical and empirical data, and the only chemical used for the testing was Deca. Believe me, I mean no disrespect, but what you've posted has been the all too typical belief from years of broscience preaching falsehoods.

 

[RollinRock]

I think the study was absolutely legit. However, more extensive research needs to be done regarding Deca and joints to make a widespread claim one way or another. In that example though the study was pretty straight forward no doubt.

 

[f450]

ok i think we agree that some agree and some do not

I THINK THE BIGGEST QUESTION THAT NEEDS ANSWERED IS

What can we take that will build tendons and help us not tear a joint up!!!???

i think this answer is more valuable --anyone know the answer????

HGH is beyond amazing for tendon health. infact it'll accelerate the rate of healing of any injury in the body.

Anavar is also pretty good for collagen synthesis but it trashes the lipids pretty badly.

 

[BigDaddyBone]

How's that saying go? "I'll trust 100 bodybuilders over a couple of scientists"?

I've just heard way too many stories and personal reports of deca healing injuries and providing joint relief to place much worth in this one study...

It would definitely be nice to see a few more studies to see if this is in fact true, or turns out that this study was an aberration. Still, good food for thought.

 

[NightWolf81]

Well i dont know, i had pain in my shoulder for a long time and
deca healed it.

 

[pain_killer]

First time in hearing this

 

[pain_killer]

Those pros got those injuries form years and years of lifting and wear an tear

 

[tony83]

I read a study that Deca increased collagen synthesis by 250%

read that too. EQ it increases it by much more, can't recall at the moment.
Still though everytime I use aas i get pec injuries, and i have ran both dec, and EQ in my cycles. The only time that i didnt get injured is when i added tren to cycle.

 

[bubbafrombama]

It would definitely be nice to see a few more studies to see if this is in fact true, or turns out that this study was an aberration. Still, good food for thought.

You're right, a few more studies would be nice. Keep in mind, tho, this report was based off of several independent studies, not just one.

 

[TODAYitis]

Deca's detrimental effects on tendons make intuitive sense to me, and the IGF-1 suppressive factors are well documented.

This is not to say that ALL or even MOST people who run moderate-dose Deca will have issues, but it should certainly give those of you who run it heavily some pause.

 

[Calves of Steel]

The article misrepresented a lot of data from the studies it cited, sometimes even stating the opposite of what the study's conclusion was. Some of the studies exaggerated their data through cleverly scaled graphs, or hid many many many variables, which I might add, is usually intentional in the scientific community. The more data you have to support your point, the more you include. Some people on these boards have WAY too much faith in researchers in the scientific community. Many are just people trying to pump out information for the companies that fund them, and make it look as interesting as possible, while not disappointing the aims of their sponsors.

 

[Crom]

What can I say? I can't argue the findings in the study. They are what they are. How can we know for sure what happens in humans? All I know is that from my personal experience of using AAS the last 14 years I have allways felt good on deca. All my injuries I have got when off deca. When I am off deca my muscles and joints don't feel good. Old injuries hurt and aches and pain all over the body appear. It is manageable sure but going on deca again takes all the aches and pains away. I am also my strongest on deca and feel very safe with the cushioning effect from the deca bloat.

Whether deca is detrimental to us or not I don't know but on the one hand we have a study showing how detrimental deca is and on the other hand I have 14 years of successful use. What do we believe? If these studies were done on other types of AAS, would the same or other detrimental things be found? Most likeley...

 

[BFHammer]

Deca is great for collagen Synth, along with EQ, primo. The problem comes when you add testosterone to those at doses over 200mg a week. Test negates the collagen effects of each of those compounds.

This is why I think it's such a great idea on a cruise to add var, primo, deca, EQ. For me, 800mg primo with 150-200mg of test works perfectly well without sides and you should be building tendon strength in between cycles.

When running high doses of test with any amount of deca or the others, you still get the muscle building effects just lose the collagen effects. I know a handful of guys trying 300-600mg deca a week with their TRT test, and maybe caber to strengthen tendons and collagen synth, but also trying to see if they can keep libido up having some test in with it, if it does start to drop then caber will be added.

So if you ran 200 test/200 primo would that be a middle of the road, grow slow and heal stack perhaps?