Big Dave Smith: AMA Thread/Journal

[Big Dave Smith]

in terms of dietary approaches like carb or calorie cycling when trying to grow, what have you found has worked best for you to get the most progress in terms of muscle gain and recovery while staying on the leaner side of things without sacrificing any gains? what worked the best and what was the worst diet approach youve had during the offseason? ^^

Have you always kept very active during your offeasons, have you found its helped you in the offseason and in the gym to not gas out during sets and stay more insulin sensitive and in turn better response and recovery?

who are some sources that you would recommend for people to learn more about diet, training and drugs for bodybuilding? any favorite people you have learned from yourself?

The worst diet approach was, is, and always will be an approach without any baseline information or quantification of macros.

If you want to make steady progress, you have to first develop a baseline. Find out what you're eating to maintain your weight. See where you're trending at for cals/protein/carbs/fat. Spend about 2 weeks doing so, following your normal patterns. Once you get that data, it's fairly easy to cut or bulk.

If you want to bulk, add 500-600 calories per day. Try to get in 1-1.5g/lb of body weight in protein, then back fill the rest with appropriately timed carbs and fats. Some people do well on less protein, some more. "Doing well" can be qualified loosely, but digestion is a big factor. I look and feel the best on more protein than less. Lately, I've been trending around 360-420g protein per day from mixed sources. Some hardcore guys will argue that you need mostly whole foods, but I don't agree. Eating 6 or more whole food meals can be an awful experience, and realistically create a better outcome. That doesn't mean eat 2 meals and drink 4 shakes a day, but being smart about digestion is important.

For example, this is a normal training day for me if my work day is shit and I'm busy...

m1- 2 fairlife shakes
m2- 8oz 99% ground beef (boiled) + 300g rice + mixed veggies
m3- 2 fairlife shakes + 1 soft pretzel (65g carbs)
m4- 8oz 99% ground beef (boiled) + 300g rice + mixed veggies
intraWO- 1 scoop whey isolate + 50g Gatorade powder
m5- 6oz 99% ground beef + 2 cups egg whites + 400g rice + 8 slices 647 bread
m6- 250g Greek Yogurt + 1.5 scoops whey isolate + 2-4 TB peanut butter
*The ground beef meals in 2 and 4 are mixed in a big thermos pot. I just eat as I go throughout the day when I have time.
*I digest this all pretty well, but if I added more chicken or beef, I wouldn't. Other meals would be a burden prep wise.

When progress stops, you have to evaluate whether or not you need more calories, more drugs, harder training, a nudge in several variables, or even a deload. You have to decide what macros to add, where, why, and how... if that's your variable you need to push. Riding out a diet for 2-3 weeks before making decisions is best, unless you're body composition is changing for the worse at a rapid pace. That's you or your coach's decision. You have to know your body.

If you want to stay leaner, you have to make smaller nudges to your macros, specifically energy macros. That's really all the trick is. Thermodynamics and individual "metabolic budgets". Don't out spend your budget.

I've always been active off-season. Inactivity for bodybuilders is a stupid, lazy, dangerous approach to adding mass... so it's something I can't relate to. If you're a desk jockey, it's just normal life... but bodybuilders should always be doing something other than lifting weights to get their heart and lungs working.

"Sources" is a tough question, as if there's one place to learn it all. There isn't. Understanding diet isn't about a singular approach. Diet comes from gathering facts and concepts and developing your own conclusions from that information. You have to read and watch/listen to hours and hours of endless content to fully understand. It's too broad of a topic to have an answer to. Critical thinking and problem solving skills are required, or just hire a coach. Reading/watching/listening requires you to also sift through hours of worthless information, as you need to see and identify INCORRECT information as well as the correct information. This whole concept is why people hire coaches and get so lost with jargon and bullshit theories.

 

[rippedyearround]

The worst diet approach was, is, and always will be an approach without any baseline information or quantification of macros.

If you want to make steady progress, you have to first develop a baseline. Find out what you're eating to maintain your weight. See where you're trending at for cals/protein/carbs/fat. Spend about 2 weeks doing so, following your normal patterns. Once you get that data, it's fairly easy to cut or bulk.

If you want to bulk, add 500-600 calories per day. Try to get in 1-1.5g/lb of body weight in protein, then back fill the rest with appropriately timed carbs and fats. Some people do well on less protein, some more. "Doing well" can be qualified loosely, but digestion is a big factor. I look and feel the best on more protein than less. Lately, I've been trending around 360-420g protein per day from mixed sources. Some hardcore guys will argue that you need mostly whole foods, but I don't agree. Eating 6 or more whole food meals can be an awful experience, and realistically create a better outcome. That doesn't mean eat 2 meals and drink 4 shakes a day, but being smart about digestion is important.

For example, this is a normal training day for me if my work day is shit and I'm busy...

m1- 2 fairlife shakes
m2- 8oz 99% ground beef (boiled) + 300g rice + mixed veggies
m3- 2 fairlife shakes + 1 soft pretzel (65g carbs)
m4- 8oz 99% ground beef (boiled) + 300g rice + mixed veggies
intraWO- 1 scoop whey isolate + 50g Gatorade powder
m5- 6oz 99% ground beef + 2 cups egg whites + 400g rice + 8 slices 647 bread
m6- 250g Greek Yogurt + 1.5 scoops whey isolate + 2-4 TB peanut butter
*The ground beef meals in 2 and 4 are mixed in a big thermos pot. I just eat as I go throughout the day when I have time.
*I digest this all pretty well, but if I added more chicken or beef, I wouldn't. Other meals would be a burden prep wise.

When progress stops, you have to evaluate whether or not you need more calories, more drugs, harder training, a nudge in several variables, or even a deload. You have to decide what macros to add, where, why, and how... if that's your variable you need to push. Riding out a diet for 2-3 weeks before making decisions is best, unless you're body composition is changing for the worse at a rapid pace. That's you or your coach's decision. You have to know your body.

If you want to stay leaner, you have to make smaller nudges to your macros, specifically energy macros. That's really all the trick is. Thermodynamics and individual "metabolic budgets". Don't out spend your budget.

I've always been active off-season. Inactivity for bodybuilders is a stupid, lazy, dangerous approach to adding mass... so it's something I can't relate to. If you're a desk jockey, it's just normal life... but bodybuilders should always be doing something other than lifting weights to get their heart and lungs working.

"Sources" is a tough question, as if there's one place to learn it all. There isn't. Understanding diet isn't about a singular approach. Diet comes from gathering facts and concepts and developing your own conclusions from that information. You have to read and watch/listen to hours and hours of endless content to fully understand. It's too broad of a topic to have an answer to. Critical thinking and problem solving skills are required, or just hire a coach. Reading/watching/listening requires you to also sift through hours of worthless information, as you need to see and identify INCORRECT information as well as the correct information. This whole concept is why people hire coaches and get so lost with jargon and bullshit theories.

Post of the decade. Great frameworks. Thanks Dave.

 

[warlock]

The worst diet approach was, is, and always will be an approach without any baseline information or quantification of macros.

If you want to make steady progress, you have to first develop a baseline. Find out what you're eating to maintain your weight. See where you're trending at for cals/protein/carbs/fat. Spend about 2 weeks doing so, following your normal patterns. Once you get that data, it's fairly easy to cut or bulk.

If you want to bulk, add 500-600 calories per day. Try to get in 1-1.5g/lb of body weight in protein, then back fill the rest with appropriately timed carbs and fats. Some people do well on less protein, some more. "Doing well" can be qualified loosely, but digestion is a big factor. I look and feel the best on more protein than less. Lately, I've been trending around 360-420g protein per day from mixed sources. Some hardcore guys will argue that you need mostly whole foods, but I don't agree. Eating 6 or more whole food meals can be an awful experience, and realistically create a better outcome. That doesn't mean eat 2 meals and drink 4 shakes a day, but being smart about digestion is important.

For example, this is a normal training day for me if my work day is shit and I'm busy...

m1- 2 fairlife shakes
m2- 8oz 99% ground beef (boiled) + 300g rice + mixed veggies
m3- 2 fairlife shakes + 1 soft pretzel (65g carbs)
m4- 8oz 99% ground beef (boiled) + 300g rice + mixed veggies
intraWO- 1 scoop whey isolate + 50g Gatorade powder
m5- 6oz 99% ground beef + 2 cups egg whites + 400g rice + 8 slices 647 bread
m6- 250g Greek Yogurt + 1.5 scoops whey isolate + 2-4 TB peanut butter
*The ground beef meals in 2 and 4 are mixed in a big thermos pot. I just eat as I go throughout the day when I have time.
*I digest this all pretty well, but if I added more chicken or beef, I wouldn't. Other meals would be a burden prep wise.

When progress stops, you have to evaluate whether or not you need more calories, more drugs, harder training, a nudge in several variables, or even a deload. You have to decide what macros to add, where, why, and how... if that's your variable you need to push. Riding out a diet for 2-3 weeks before making decisions is best, unless you're body composition is changing for the worse at a rapid pace. That's you or your coach's decision. You have to know your body.

If you want to stay leaner, you have to make smaller nudges to your macros, specifically energy macros. That's really all the trick is. Thermodynamics and individual "metabolic budgets". Don't out spend your budget.

I've always been active off-season. Inactivity for bodybuilders is a stupid, lazy, dangerous approach to adding mass... so it's something I can't relate to. If you're a desk jockey, it's just normal life... but bodybuilders should always be doing something other than lifting weights to get their heart and lungs working.

"Sources" is a tough question, as if there's one place to learn it all. There isn't. Understanding diet isn't about a singular approach. Diet comes from gathering facts and concepts and developing your own conclusions from that information. You have to read and watch/listen to hours and hours of endless content to fully understand. It's too broad of a topic to have an answer to. Critical thinking and problem solving skills are required, or just hire a coach. Reading/watching/listening requires you to also sift through hours of worthless information, as you need to see and identify INCORRECT information as well as the correct information. This whole concept is why people hire coaches and get so lost with jargon and bullshit theories.

This is a great post! Now, when you say 99% ground beef, do you get a higher fat percentage but sort of make it 99% by boiling it? You just boil it in water and let it cook?

 

[Big Dave Smith]

This is a great post! Now, when you say 99% ground beef, do you get a higher fat percentage but sort of make it 99% by boiling it? You just boil it in water and let it cook?

I get 88% ground beef and boil it in a huge pot for about 60-75 minutes. The beef then gets strained, rinsed with hot water, and cooled. If done correctly, when I store it in gallon ziplock backs in the fridge, the bag is perfectly transparent after sitting over night in the fridge.

When I didn’t get all the fat out in the past, the bag would get coated and be more translucent with the remaining fat.

One Costco package at a time, broken into very small bits, then mashed again after straining.

 

[Andrewgen_Receptors]

m2- 8oz 99% ground beef (boiled) + 300g rice + mixed veggies
...
m4- 8oz 99% ground beef (boiled) + 300g rice + mixed veggies
...
m5- 6oz 99% ground beef + 2 cups egg whites + 400g rice

Do you cook your beef and rice daily, or just doing this in giant batches?
I'm imagining a stock pot and industrial size rice cooker to handle this kind of volume.

Are you adding anything to the beef and rice to make it more appetizing? I'm getting rather bored of soy sauce and beef bone broth... maybe that's just a part of this life I just haven't gotten accustomed to yet.

 

[EnhancedFatGrappler]

The worst diet approach was, is, and always will be an approach without any baseline information or quantification of macros.

If you want to make steady progress, you have to first develop a baseline. Find out what you're eating to maintain your weight. See where you're trending at for cals/protein/carbs/fat. Spend about 2 weeks doing so, following your normal patterns. Once you get that data, it's fairly easy to cut or bulk.

If you want to bulk, add 500-600 calories per day. Try to get in 1-1.5g/lb of body weight in protein, then back fill the rest with appropriately timed carbs and fats. Some people do well on less protein, some more. "Doing well" can be qualified loosely, but digestion is a big factor. I look and feel the best on more protein than less. Lately, I've been trending around 360-420g protein per day from mixed sources. Some hardcore guys will argue that you need mostly whole foods, but I don't agree. Eating 6 or more whole food meals can be an awful experience, and realistically create a better outcome. That doesn't mean eat 2 meals and drink 4 shakes a day, but being smart about digestion is important.

For example, this is a normal training day for me if my work day is shit and I'm busy...

m1- 2 fairlife shakes
m2- 8oz 99% ground beef (boiled) + 300g rice + mixed veggies
m3- 2 fairlife shakes + 1 soft pretzel (65g carbs)
m4- 8oz 99% ground beef (boiled) + 300g rice + mixed veggies
intraWO- 1 scoop whey isolate + 50g Gatorade powder
m5- 6oz 99% ground beef + 2 cups egg whites + 400g rice + 8 slices 647 bread
m6- 250g Greek Yogurt + 1.5 scoops whey isolate + 2-4 TB peanut butter
*The ground beef meals in 2 and 4 are mixed in a big thermos pot. I just eat as I go throughout the day when I have time.
*I digest this all pretty well, but if I added more chicken or beef, I wouldn't. Other meals would be a burden prep wise.

When progress stops, you have to evaluate whether or not you need more calories, more drugs, harder training, a nudge in several variables, or even a deload. You have to decide what macros to add, where, why, and how... if that's your variable you need to push. Riding out a diet for 2-3 weeks before making decisions is best, unless you're body composition is changing for the worse at a rapid pace. That's you or your coach's decision. You have to know your body.

If you want to stay leaner, you have to make smaller nudges to your macros, specifically energy macros. That's really all the trick is. Thermodynamics and individual "metabolic budgets". Don't out spend your budget.

I've always been active off-season. Inactivity for bodybuilders is a stupid, lazy, dangerous approach to adding mass... so it's something I can't relate to. If you're a desk jockey, it's just normal life... but bodybuilders should always be doing something other than lifting weights to get their heart and lungs working.

"Sources" is a tough question, as if there's one place to learn it all. There isn't. Understanding diet isn't about a singular approach. Diet comes from gathering facts and concepts and developing your own conclusions from that information. You have to read and watch/listen to hours and hours of endless content to fully understand. It's too broad of a topic to have an answer to. Critical thinking and problem solving skills are required, or just hire a coach. Reading/watching/listening requires you to also sift through hours of worthless information, as you need to see and identify INCORRECT information as well as the correct information. This whole concept is why people hire coaches and get so lost with jargon and bullshit theories.

This needs to be a stickied Solo Post! Pure Gold!

 

[Flex500]

Those fairlife shakes are like milkshakes. I used to drink them all the time lol.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

Do you cook your beef and rice daily, or just doing this in giant batches?
I'm imagining a stock pot and industrial size rice cooker to handle this kind of volume.

Are you adding anything to the beef and rice to make it more appetizing? I'm getting rather bored of soy sauce and beef bone broth... maybe that's just a part of this life I just haven't gotten accustomed to yet.

No, never. Once or twice a week. The beef is boiled about 5-6lbs at a time in a 3 gallon pot of water. The rice is cooked in a commercial sized rice cooker.

I always add salt, seasonings, or low calorie flavorings. The veggies I get will often be pre-seasoned, so sometimes the meals just need a little salt. When they aren't, I season myself. Soy sauce and beef bone broth would make me quit bodybuilding. I always make my meals taste good. Any bodybuilder who thinks his meals need to be as plain as possible is either stupid or brainwashed into thinking sodium is bad. Everything Bagel seasoning, Garlic Salt, various other seasonings, G. Hughes, etc. If you don't learn how to cook and make your food taste good, you're going to have trouble adhering to a diet long term. If you can adhere to it long term without, you're just going to be unnecessarily miserable.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

Those fairlife shakes are like milkshakes. I used to drink them all the time lol.

Costco has them CHEAP. They're much easier to get down that Whey shakes. The amino acid profile is good, as it's just ultra filtered milk with very low carbs. If I use only whey shakes, I have trouble adhering to the diet because my tastebuds have gotten sick of drinking whey for 20+ years. I'll skip a shake too often, then wonder why my progress sucks.

Choosing foods you'll adhere to is one of the most important things you can do diet wise.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

Also to note: I love when old school bodybuilders see my fairlife shakes and just have emotional reactions to it. "Oh god, MILK? I don't know if I'd use this long term..." When I ask why, they NEVER have an answer. I always say "I digest them well and the amino acid profile is good. Why not?" They usually reply with "Well, I'd just think you'd be better off with a clean protein. Then I ask "How is this dirty? How do you quantify or qualify what dirty means?" They just stand there with no answer, backed into a corner.

If I had digestive issues from the shakes, or they were loaded with non-animal plant proteins, I'd agree... but old school bodybuilders just repeat things over and over without ever having any understanding. If there's anything I hate in this industry, it's canned phrases and buzzwords.

 

[Corgopop]

with appropriately timed carbs and fats.

Could you go a bit deeper into this possibly Dave? I don’t use insulin, but beyond just having an intra shake I don’t really time my nutrients too strictly. Usually go a bit of time after training without having my next meal which is why I have the intra.

Thanks and awesome thread so far.

 

[Flex500]

Also to note: I love when old school bodybuilders see my fairlife shakes and just have emotional reactions to it. "Oh god, MILK? I don't know if I'd use this long term..." When I ask why, they NEVER have an answer. I always say "I digest them well and the amino acid profile is good. Why not?" They usually reply with "Well, I'd just think you'd be better off with a clean protein. Then I ask "How is this dirty? How do you quantify or qualify what dirty means?" They just stand there with no answer, backed into a corner.

If I had digestive issues from the shakes, or they were loaded with non-animal plant proteins, I'd agree... but old school bodybuilders just repeat things over and over without ever having any understanding. If there's anything I hate in this industry, it's canned phrases and buzzwords.

totally agree. I just picked up a couple packs from BJ's last night as a matter of fact. Way cheaper than I used to find on amazon.

 

[trackstar19]

Were you at the Geard Up meet up at I think it was Powerhouse in CT back in like ~2016? I went with my buddy Jeff and I want to say you and he and a guy named Ed did a leg day session together - but I could be misremembering.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

Could you go a bit deeper into this possibly Dave? I don’t use insulin, but beyond just having an intra shake I don’t really time my nutrients too strictly. Usually go a bit of time after training without having my next meal which is why I have the intra.

Thanks and awesome thread so far.

The bulk of my carbohydrates surround my training sessions. Pre-Intra-Post, and maybe one more meal after that. My diet is much lower in fat that it used to be.

When considering your energy sources, your body will preferentially use carbohydrates as fuel. Carbs that don't get used immediately are stored as glycogen.

Fats are a longer term source of energy, used when carbohydrates are low. Higher intensity exercise will preferentially use glycogen before using fat as fuel.

When carbohydrates are ingested, insulin goes up. Insulin's job is to pull what's in the blood stream and shuttle it to where it needs to go. Protein gets better utilized and carbs get shuttled into muscles. If insulin is high due to carbohydrate consumption, and you have fats digesting as well, your body has no need to use those fats for energy. In that case, dietary fat has a higher probability of being shuttled faster into fat cells. When people use exogenous insulin, fat will be stored much easier. To avoid this, most guys will have as little fat as possible with their carbohydrate meals, ESPECIALLY if using insulin.

It's not always terrible to consume fats and carbs together. When the amounts are more moderate, when you're eating at caloric maintenance, or you're in a caloric deficit, it's less likely... but it's usually more efficient to combine protein with carbs, protein with fats, and not to mix all three. Everyone "responds" differently, but the above generally applies best to most people.

This week, I've been trending around 380-420g pro, 400-500g carbs, and 40-60g fat. None of that fat is before, during, or after training.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

Were you at the Geard Up meet up at I think it was Powerhouse in CT back in like ~2016? I went with my buddy Jeff and I want to say you and he and a guy named Ed did a leg day session together - but I could be misremembering.

Yup, that was me.

 

[trackstar19]

Yup, that was me.

I thought so. I really enjoyed that group back then. So many intelligent minds on there discussing interesting topics. I went back in that group more recently a few years ago just to use the search feature and read old posts on topics of interest. It was a bit depressing to do, though, as on many of the posts half the commenters are no longer with us.

 

[qbkilla]

Great thread. I recall in another thread you said you didn't think much of dorians training style. Curious why? I'm guessing your more of a high volume guy?

 

[Big Dave Smith]

Great thread. I recall in another thread you said you didn't think much of dorians training style. Curious why? I'm guessing your more of a high volume guy?

Just saw this.

For several reasons.

All training morphs and evolves based on the person, their age, injuries, genetics, diet, knowledge of training, ability to auto regulate, etc.

He won the Olympia from 92-97, meaning he was 29/30 to 34/35 years old at his peak.

He grew most of his muscle before the Olympia wins, probably before switching to his widely publicized “method”. He did gain mass during his reign, but that’s a combination of food, drugs, efficiency, applied knowledge, AND training.

He started in his early 20’s and was out by his mid 30’s, busted up (more so busted laster in his career).

High intensity low volume training is much more injury prone, he did tear several muscles UNNECESSARILY.

High intensity/low volume can work for a period of time, but all training methods “WORK”.

What stands the test of time? How do you know?

A little more volume with appropriate intensity will yield the longest career and fewest injuries. Most people accumulate muscle slowly, like building a mountain with layers of paint. Volume and intensity can and should vary, as long as muscle is being accrued. Most are knowingly or unknowingly getting stronger as this time passes. THIS is the key.

My volume is moderate. It’s not 1-2 sets, but I’m not doing 16-20 sets per body part either. At nearly 40, my joints would crumble if I did low volume training. I got away with it when I was younger, and I did get larger.. but i don’t think it’s a major indicator for success for most. If anything, it’s a risk that isn’t worth the price of admission.

So my answer is gray. Get stronger. Don’t get injured. Do enough work to stimulate growth. Nail down your diet. Nail down your recovery. Use just enough drugs. That’s the take home.

 

[madg]

Fucking preach ^^

 

[Bigpoppaseth]

Great thread . I remember you from the geard up podcast .