Bill Phillips real deal or snake oil salesman?

[Size2XXL]

My friend begged me to do a meal plan for him. I told him that I normally don't do meal plans for anyone because I spend the time doing it and rarely anyone usually follows through.

So he promises he would...I do a meal plan for both him and his wife.....5 days later he told me he got a 30 day plan with Bill Phillips online.

And so go's your time out the window, you try and help an individual out, the "slap 2 the Face "... frustrating I know, I've taken immeasurable time to help peeps out like this, the. They just do their own thing, then come running back to you, cuz they know you look good, and they know you know ur shit.

Been there, done that, I'll still offer up advice & stuff, but I won't take too. Much time, or exert more effort than necessary.

A person "Has " to "Want it"... "Desire" discliplne, and motivation. It's Rare..

Size2XXL

 

[bigNsmall]

My friend begged me to do a meal plan for him. I told him that I normally don't do meal plans for anyone because I spend the time doing it and rarely anyone usually follows through.

So he promises he would...I do a meal plan for both him and his wife.....5 days later he told me he got a 30 day plan with Bill Phillips online.

Doesnt that just make you despise people!?!?

 

[bigNsmall]

Whenever someone asks me to do a plan for them I require the following:

A detailed food and activity diary for one week. Every food, quantity and activity. If they can't write down the food they scarf for one week no way in hell they are going to stick to my plan.

To this day NO ONE has returned their log completed. lol

^aaaannddddd this is why the majority of the population is out of shape and broke.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

The early days of MM2K were really cool and interesting but things eventually took a drastic turn from bodybuilding to more of a fitness type thing. You have to admire Bill Phillips for what he accomplished. I loved reading everything I could that was written by Duchaine.

Duchaine and Phillips and pretty much everyone else read my newsletter in the early 90's....I really liked Phillips original Anabolic reference guides and the book he put out....along with Duchaines {Underground Steroid Handbook}....In fact i might still have every issue of the Anabolic Reference Guides, the book and every single one of Duchaines books in a box somewhere...but I remember QFAC contacting me back in the day and asking if they could buy those off of me...and i might have sold them to Shelly}....anyway Phillips contacted me a couple times in the 90's and asked me to write for MM2k and I was pissed at that time at what he had done.....he had garnered huge support by capturing all the hardcore bodybuilders and made his name from the hardcore culture of the sport....and was moving toward this "Men's Health" kind of mag...and i wrote him a long scathing letter and faxed it to him....telling him why I would never write for him...and that i felt he forgotten the very people who had put him on the map and made him in the first place.
Duchaine ......... I go over to his apartment one time and he invites me in and its kind of uncomfortable because he shows up at the door with his fly down and his pants kind of unbuckled...and im thinking "what the hell"....I said something like "hey man i can come back..." and he is like "no no Dante come on in"...we walk into his living room and on the couch is like 5 magazines folded over to certain pages....on every page were pictures of bikini and figure girls (alot of them were the musclemag intl ones....Im almost positive one of the mags was the issue with the girls on the miniature golf course with the one girl who put a golf ball in the crack of her ass...(that issue Musclemag caught alot of crap for)...I remember that because i was thinking "jesus what the hell have i walked into....LOL" .....I just moved the conversation to his recumbent bike he loved to ride since i seemed to have catch Duchaine at an intimate moment with himself. The guy was a peculiar cat. What always was strange to me about Dan was (and this is my opinion only)...he didnt know jack crap about how to build muscle mass training wise, like zilch, and eating to gain size...I felt he was seriously lacking in that area also...but drug culture, little known compounds, the pathways that drugs worked, new novel ideas....the guy could talk circles around anyone on the planet. What he was incredible at was the theoriziing he did...he had hunches about things. If you go back and read some of his writings....its absolutely insane at some of the things he theorized about drugs and new compounds at the time (late 80's thru 90's) that have become staples now. His theories about anti estrogens, using smaller dosages of GH multiple times a day instead of a large single dosage, spot injecting with insulin needles and on and on and on....people read that nowadays and think its no big deal....this is the guy who brought it all forward!!! And alot of it was brought forward on hunches and theories. I sometimes go back and read some of his stuff and i have to look up the date again because its 1989 when he wrote it....and people just skimmed over it back then and its now a set in stone staple nowadays. Some of the things he theorized in the late 80's became FACT in the 2000's....his drug foresight of what would happen with this compound and that compound over time and the effect it would have on the human body via bodybuilding was amazing

 

[MR. BMJ]

Duchaine and Phillips and pretty much everyone else read my newsletter in the early 90's....I really liked Phillips original Anabolic reference guides and the book he put out....along with Duchaines {Underground Steroid Handbook}....In fact i might still have every issue of the Anabolic Reference Guides, the book and every single one of Duchaines books in a box somewhere...but I remember QFAC contacting me back in the day and asking if they could buy those off of me...and i might have sold them to Shelly}....anyway Phillips contacted me a couple times in the 90's and asked me to write for MM2k and I was pissed at that time at what he had done.....he had garnered huge support by capturing all the hardcore bodybuilders and made his name from the hardcore culture of the sport....and was moving toward this "Men's Health" kind of mag...and i wrote him a long scathing letter and faxed it to him....telling him why I would never write for him...and that i felt he forgotten the very people who had put him on the map and made him in the first place.
Duchaine ......... I go over to his apartment one time and he invites me in and its kind of uncomfortable because he shows up at the door with his fly down and his pants kind of unbuckled...and im thinking "what the hell"....I said something like "hey man i can come back..." and he is like "no no Dante come on in"...we walk into his living room and on the couch is like 5 magazines folded over to certain pages....on every page were pictures of bikini and figure girls (alot of them were the musclemag intl ones....Im almost positive one of the mags was the issue with the girls on the miniature golf course with the one girl who put a golf ball in the crack of her ass...(that issue Musclemag caught alot of crap for)...I remember that because i was thinking "jesus what the hell have i walked into....LOL" .....I just moved the conversation to his recumbent bike he loved to ride since i seemed to have catch Duchaine at an intimate moment with himself. The guy was a peculiar cat. What always was strange to me about Dan was (and this is my opinion only)...he didnt know jack crap about how to build muscle mass training wise, like zilch, and eating to gain size...I felt he was seriously lacking in that area also...but drug culture, little known compounds, the pathways that drugs worked, new novel ideas....the guy could talk circles around anyone on the planet. What he was incredible at was the theoriziing he did...he had hunches about things. If you go back and read some of his writings....its absolutely insane at some of the things he theorized about drugs and new compounds at the time (late 80's thru 90's) that have become staples now. His theories about anti estrogens, using smaller dosages of GH multiple times a day instead of a large single dosage, spot injecting with insulin needles and on and on and on....people read that nowadays and think its no big deal....this is the guy who brought it all forward!!! And alot of it was brought forward on hunches and theories. I sometimes go back and read some of his stuff and i have to look up the date again because its 1989 when he wrote it....and people just skimmed over it back then and its now a set in stone staple nowadays. Some of the things he theorized in the late 80's became FACT in the 2000's....his drug foresight of what would happen with this compound and that compound over time and the effect it would have on the human body via bodybuilding was amazing

He was absolutely amazing in his writing style, and like you stated, his theorizing of unknown substances, foods, and ideas. He also was brilliant on how he brought upon these theories to others imo, because he was already flippin' genius, but where there were unknowns, he would bring that out for others to look at and to give their thoughts on, and thus continue the journey on whether the theory was worthwhile, or not going anywhere. He got some of the guys/women in the science field to hop on over to this game and further the ideas, which was brilliant. He knew that there needed to be a balance between trial and error, experimentation and scientific study for advancements. Of course, especially way back in the 90's, literature was limited and not near what it is today. I never met him in person, but had the priviledge of conversing with him on the forums here and there. I was young, like in my teens and early 20's at the time. I also sent him letters to his jail cell I think he also excelled in fat burning areas too.

Man, I miss that guy and those days. He was odd, but very special. Since I basically came into all this in the 90's, he was probably my all-time favorite persona in this whole thing we do. I really wish he was around today

 

[goback2013]

i remember hanging out around frogs in solana beach, just so i could have a chance at meeting duchaine..

this was back in the mid-late 90s.. during the time of no forums outside of MFW
it's fair to say it was the phillips brothers, tc, duchaine, pa, and kneller who changed the whole game in terms of
ped use, etc.

 

[MR. BMJ]

i remember hanging out around frogs in solana beach, just so i could have a chance at meeting duchaine..

this was back in the mid-late 90s.. during the time of no forums outside of MFW
it's fair to say it was the phillips brothers, tc, duchaine, pa, and kneller who changed the whole game in terms of
ped use, etc.

I would have to agree, they all pretty much defined the 90's outside of bodybuilding itself, and at least until the net became the norm mid-90's and onward. Duchaine was popular until his death, as was the others outside of Phillips going a different route.

 

[kandaandm]

Just to update you guys...My buddy, who isn't into fitness in any manner, signed up for Bill Phillips new Transformation for $300. It was supposed to have begun for him July 16th. He never received any contact since he paid...He tried multiple times to reach them via email, but no luck.

He went to the bank today and they are getting his money back.........Moral of the story....It's not looking good for Bill Phillips new venture in this regard.

 

[Strongman37]

I cant speak to his character now but when i was a kid he got my fat ass in the gym and thats where i fell in love with the iron

200lbs is always 200lbs

 

[2thmaker]

"Fly down and pants undone" Ok I gotta go man lol.

 

[gungalunga]

One of the funniest thing I remember about MM2K was when they released HMB to the market. I believe it was Bill himself that made the comment 'It feels just like Deca'

Yea...I remember that. He said that taking the recommended dosage of hmb " Gives me results like I'm on 400mg/week of DECA." I spoke to him on the phone once and called him out on this claim. His response was "Did I really say that?"

 

[Pusher]

yeah.. i think it was shawn phillips who said it.. but yeah... it was around that time
when everyone jumped on the creatine train... eas needed something to stand out,
so here comes hmb... feels like deca

those were the days

no, it was a quote of Bill. it was in a little ad with a grey background talking about "there is this guy he sees at the gym who's about 6ft tall and about 210lbs, not "huge', but really lean 365days a year. always in shape... blah blah blah.. and bill asks the guy 'what's his secret?', and he says 'just 200 deca a week bro. that's all.', then bill goes on to say that he found this new "amino acid metabolite" and how he got to try some and said "it feels like deca". etc... I remember the ad pretty clearly. lol. didn't make my 14yr old self want to try HMB, it made me want to use Deca. lol

I did, however, spend $45 on a bottle of HMB when it first came out thgough that year. haha

 

[DannyAbs]

Duchaine and Phillips and pretty much everyone else read my newsletter in the early 90's....I really liked Phillips original Anabolic reference guides and the book he put out....along with Duchaines {Underground Steroid Handbook}....In fact i might still have every issue of the Anabolic Reference Guides, the book and every single one of Duchaines books in a box somewhere...but I remember QFAC contacting me back in the day and asking if they could buy those off of me...and i might have sold them to Shelly}....anyway Phillips contacted me a couple times in the 90's and asked me to write for MM2k and I was pissed at that time at what he had done.....he had garnered huge support by capturing all the hardcore bodybuilders and made his name from the hardcore culture of the sport....and was moving toward this "Men's Health" kind of mag...and i wrote him a long scathing letter and faxed it to him....telling him why I would never write for him...and that i felt he forgotten the very people who had put him on the map and made him in the first place.
Duchaine ......... I go over to his apartment one time and he invites me in and its kind of uncomfortable because he shows up at the door with his fly down and his pants kind of unbuckled...and im thinking "what the hell"....I said something like "hey man i can come back..." and he is like "no no Dante come on in"...we walk into his living room and on the couch is like 5 magazines folded over to certain pages....on every page were pictures of bikini and figure girls (alot of them were the musclemag intl ones....Im almost positive one of the mags was the issue with the girls on the miniature golf course with the one girl who put a golf ball in the crack of her ass...(that issue Musclemag caught alot of crap for)...I remember that because i was thinking "jesus what the hell have i walked into....LOL" .....I just moved the conversation to his recumbent bike he loved to ride since i seemed to have catch Duchaine at an intimate moment with himself. The guy was a peculiar cat. What always was strange to me about Dan was (and this is my opinion only)...he didnt know jack crap about how to build muscle mass training wise, like zilch, and eating to gain size...I felt he was seriously lacking in that area also...but drug culture, little known compounds, the pathways that drugs worked, new novel ideas....the guy could talk circles around anyone on the planet. What he was incredible at was the theoriziing he did...he had hunches about things. If you go back and read some of his writings....its absolutely insane at some of the things he theorized about drugs and new compounds at the time (late 80's thru 90's) that have become staples now. His theories about anti estrogens, using smaller dosages of GH multiple times a day instead of a large single dosage, spot injecting with insulin needles and on and on and on....people read that nowadays and think its no big deal....this is the guy who brought it all forward!!! And alot of it was brought forward on hunches and theories. I sometimes go back and read some of his stuff and i have to look up the date again because its 1989 when he wrote it....and people just skimmed over it back then and its now a set in stone staple nowadays. Some of the things he theorized in the late 80's became FACT in the 2000's....his drug foresight of what would happen with this compound and that compound over time and the effect it would have on the human body via bodybuilding was amazing

Man Dante, this is a trip down memory lane. Few people remember he created the first preworkout / intra workout drink in Ultimate Orange. What an awesome product!

 

[KillerStack]

He was absolutely amazing in his writing style, (

Yes his writing style was very entertaining. Died way too soon.

 

[MR. BMJ]

Ultimate orange, the original formula, was phenomenal!

After it was changed, I just used mini-thins/caffeine for my pre-w/o.....until those were banned too

Yea, Bill is the one that mentioned HMB was similar to Deca, and I think he also mentioned that Creatine was similar to Dbol. I'll check that out when I get home tonight...errrr, this weekend hopefully. I have all the old MM2K's still

I wasted a lot of money on HMB. Phosphagen-HP was awesome though, well, at least the fruit punch taste I was addicted to, lol.

I never knew Bill personally, but I hated he went a different direction on his business ordeals, because as DC pointed out, it was like he just turned his back on all of us. I'm not saying he didn't make a smart business move from a money stand-point, but I think he could have done both and still been fine. At the time, they were so popular, they could have done anything....well, outside of turning their back on they hardcore crowds that made them who they were and got them off their feet. Seriously, they were like Gods at the time they were so popular, he could have done both IMO.

I took a lot of heat from some guys for sticking up for him a little while longer than I probably should have (not that I thought he was a bad guy after it was all said and done...just disappointed)....lol, here ya go:

https://www.elitefitness.com/bodybuilding/****steroids-old*****/7499.html

I remember when they featured the Greek Sources Mougious/Skouvara in MM2K, and then not long afterward, they were busted. A lot of people couldn't stand them/Bill after all that. Of course back then, just like today, you had competitors under alias names throwing out insults as well, obviously. It was what it was though.

I ran into Big Canuck about a year or two ago over at rAJJIN's GXB forum, and that was a blast from the past. he was always a good guy and one of the original members of EF back in the 90's. Those were good days. he's a member here too, under a different name. Not sure how active he is though. I think it was xerxes, was the name he used here. Said he still talked to MaximumOverDrive too.

 

[KillerStack]

Yea, Bill is the one that mentioned HMB was similar to Deca, and I think he also mentioned that Creatine was similar to Dbol. I'll check that out when I get home tonight...errrr, this weekend hopefully. I have all the old MM2K's still

It was so long ago but the way I remember it was that Duchaine first wrote about HMB, saying something to the effect of, "Bill told me it feels like 200mg of Deca. I hope he isn't bullshitting because I will flame him mercilessly on the internet otherwise". If you get a chance to look it up let me know how my memory was

 

[tenny]

It was so long ago but the way I remember it was that Duchaine first wrote about HMB, saying something to the effect of, "Bill told me it feels like 200mg of Deca. I hope he isn't bullshitting because I will flame him mercilessly on the internet otherwise". If you get a chance to look it up let me know how my memory was

I spent a small fortune on HMB.....

and the only thing it did was make me train harder.....
because I thought I was making gains.....FROM HMB!!!!

but it was just the higher intensity training...

HIT BABY...!!!!

 

[taz]

back in those days I spent a small fortune on Phosphagen HP (I too was completely addicted to the fruit punch flavor!), HMB, vanadyl sulfate, and DHEA. I was not sucked in as much with chromium picolinate, but I did buy a few bottles before giving up. My monthly GNC/Nature food center purchase back then:

phosphagen HP fruit punch
1 bottle HMB
1 bottle Vanadyl
1 tub Heavyweight Gainer 900
1 tub designer protein - chocolate flavor
musclemag issue
flex issue
MM2K issue


To think of all the money I spent. Holy shit

 

[xpac2]

Bringing back memories of Hulksters newsletters. Didin't he turn out to be a scammer? Wonder whatever happened to him. Back in the day we had 2 main newsletters, Dantes and Hulkster

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Anyone remember (I know Imabadman does) when during Phillips Anabolic reference guides toward the end of production....Met-rx was introduced..(explanation-Connelly interview)...and it was meant for burn victims and people who had wasting diseases and hospital settings....but Phillips said he had been able to get a limited supply for bodybuilders but when that limited supply runs out it runs out......that created a frenzy like noone had ever seen. You guys thinking about this now would be like "WTF Met-rx really?"...but back then they wrote this thing up as a compound formulated especially for people in dire muscle wasting situations....and Connellys expertise in the field really sold it for everyone....Milos for a lengthy amount of time was experimenting with using nothing but Metrx all day long....it was crazy the buzz it created.