Blood pressure meds together - lisinopril and telmisartin

[JonnyJHutch]

Hi guys are currently take 7.5mg of lisinopril for blood pressure management. Do any of you know if it’s safe to take 20mg of telmisartin alongside the lisinopril. It was more so for the LVH heart protection, obviously an added bonus would be an additional lowering of bp as long as it’s still within health ranges. I had read or heard somewhere that the both together could affect potassium levels but I wasn’t sure. Any help would be greatly appreciated thanks

 

[Zamun]

I don’t think you’re supposed to combine ACEi with ARBs. If you want LVH protection maybe pick one and then add in a little dose of nebivolol

 

[demon]

This was just released yesterday; I found it interesting. May apply in your case

 

[Fleezy]

ARB and ACE-i won't work together


if something is being inhibited by one drug, it can't also be blocked by another

 

[bbxtreme]

Hi guys are currently take 7.5mg of lisinopril for blood pressure management. Do any of you know if it’s safe to take 20mg of telmisartin alongside the lisinopril. It was more so for the LVH heart protection, obviously an added bonus would be an additional lowering of bp as long as it’s still within health ranges. I had read or heard somewhere that the both together could affect potassium levels but I wasn’t sure. Any help would be greatly appreciated thanks

Do not mix the two. You’re using less than the baseline starting dosage of Lisinopril- 10mg. I’d address that before thinking about stacking medications.

 

[luki7788]

I will disagree with everyone on this matter - I used a similar combination and it worked great, I think mainly because you work through two different paths, which is why you need smaller doses of both compounds

The combined effects of telmisartan and ramipril on hypertension and cardiovascular injury - Journal of Pharmaceutical Investigation

Purpose More than half of hypertensive patients receive combination therapy with two or more drugs. For combination therapy with antihypertensive drugs, it is recommended to use complementary drugs with different mechanisms. In this study, the effects of combination therapy with telmisartan (an...

link.springer.com

 

[JonnyJHutch]

Thanks for the reply guys. My main concern was the use of nandrolone, maybe I should have stated that. I havnt used deca in years and wanted to again, but the studies showing the affects on LVH with nandrolone, i was under the impression that telmisartin can help with this, hence the reason for wanting to use it, I should have said, it wasn’t so much for the extra BP control, that at the moment is 133/72

 

[Swifto]

Thanks for the reply guys. My main concern was the use of nandrolone, maybe I should have stated that. I havnt used deca in years and wanted to again, but the studies showing the affects on LVH with nandrolone, i was under the impression that telmisartin can help with this, hence the reason for wanting to use it, I should have said, it wasn’t so much for the extra BP control, that at the moment is 133/72

Have you been diagnosed with LVH from an echocardiogram?

 

[d4ve]

I will disagree with everyone on this matter - I used a similar combination and it worked great, I think mainly because you work through two different paths, which is why you need smaller doses of both compounds

The combined effects of telmisartan and ramipril on hypertension and cardiovascular injury - Journal of Pharmaceutical Investigation

Purpose More than half of hypertensive patients receive combination therapy with two or more drugs. For combination therapy with antihypertensive drugs, it is recommended to use complementary drugs with different mechanisms. In this study, the effects of combination therapy with telmisartan (an...

link.springer.com

Same, I started combining Lisinopril with Telmisartan when I got really heavy, ~300 lbs.

I think I'll try to pull the Lisinopril and see if BP stays good, but I won't be shy about reintroducing it if necessary.

 

[JonnyJHutch]

Have you been diagnosed with LVH from an echocardiogram?

No mate. Last ecg was fine. More thinking of prevention. I do generally have a higher resting heart rate of around 90bpm but that’s been a constant for years so I guess heart etc is always in the back of my mind

 

[Swifto]

I wouldn't worry too much. I believe the studies you are referring to are on rodents and rabbits.

This study below looked at administering testosterone and nandrolone and to to assess the effects of testosterone and nandrolone, a non-amplifiable and non-aromatizable pure androgen, on cardiac muscle function in healthy young men.

Intervention Weekly intramuscular injections of testosterone (200 mg mixed esters), nandrolone (200 mg nandrolone decanoate) or matching (2 ml arachis oil vehicle) placebo for 4 weeks.

Conclusion Four weeks of treatment with testosterone or nandrolone had no benefical or adverse effects compared with placebo on cardiac function in healthy young men.

Source:

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onlinelibrary.wiley.com

Bodybuilders, athletes and AAS users often experience some form of LVH. You will do well to avoid it entirely living this life and using drugs/steroids.

 

[traininsane11]

No mate. Last ecg was fine. More thinking of prevention. I do generally have a higher resting heart rate of around 90bpm but that’s been a constant for years so I guess heart etc is always in the back of my mind

Similar boat to me heart health and BP always good (110/75 on no BP meds at 280lbs) but have a higher RHR usually mid 80’s as an average. Have added Nebivolol back it at 5mg doesn’t really
Seem to do much for RHR for me personally but seems to have other positives for heart health may be worth looking into for yourself

 

[Swifto]

No mate. Last ecg was fine. More thinking of prevention. I do generally have a higher resting heart rate of around 90bpm but that’s been a constant for years so I guess heart etc is always in the back of my mind

I have the same high 80-100bpm and my Echo was fine with an EF of 56. BP was 111/79 yesterday.

I'm in the camp of 'less is more' (most of the time) and dont subscribe to using these powerful drugs like Telmisartan unless warranted.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

ARB and ACE-i won't work together


if something is being inhibited by one drug, it can't also be blocked by another

This is not accurate.

Ace inhibitors block angiotensin converting enzyme from converting angiotensin 1 into angiotensin 2.

Angiotensin Receptor Blockers act on the kidney to prevent angiotensin 2 from attaching to receptor sites on the kidney.

Same pathway, different points along the path.

If anything, we could make a loose analogy to comparing nolvadex to arimidex… but arimidex is “stronger”/more effective than nolvadex for estrogen mitigation, whereas most people find more success with ARB’s over ACE inhibitors.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

Thanks for the reply guys. My main concern was the use of nandrolone, maybe I should have stated that. I havnt used deca in years and wanted to again, but the studies showing the affects on LVH with nandrolone, i was under the impression that telmisartin can help with this, hence the reason for wanting to use it, I should have said, it wasn’t so much for the extra BP control, that at the moment is 133/72

I would bet a dollar that the LVH associated with deca is the same association with all AAS. The heart doesn’t have androgen receptors, and there hasn’t been (as far as I know) any direct causation linked. It would make the most sense to think that anything that increases blood viscosity, blood pressure, and RHR would cause LVH. If this is the case, EQ, high test, and anadrol would be more detrimental, if not worse.

 

[Stewie]

I would bet a dollar that the LVH associated with deca is the same association with all AAS. The heart doesn’t have androgen receptors, and there hasn’t been (as far as I know) any direct causation linked. It would make the most sense to think that anything that increases blood viscosity, blood pressure, and RHR would cause LVH. If this is the case, EQ, high test, and anadrol would be more detrimental, if not worse.

I do believe androgen receptors take up residence in myocytes -Jian-Di Liu et al.

Anabolic-androgenic steroids and cardiovascular risk - PMC

Anabolic-androgenic steroids (AAS) represents a group of synthetic testosterone derivatives that play an important role in clinical treatment. These drugs are widely abused among the general public to increase lean weight and improve athletic ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Loading…

www.ahajournals.org

 

[Fleezy]

This is not accurate.

Ace inhibitors block angiotensin converting enzyme from converting angiotensin 1 into angiotensin 2.

Angiotensin Receptor Blockers act on the kidney to prevent angiotensin 2 from attaching to receptor sites on the kidney.

Same pathway, different points along the path.

If anything, we could make a loose analogy to comparing nolvadex to arimidex… but arimidex is “stronger”/more effective than nolvadex for estrogen mitigation, whereas most people find more success with ARB’s over ACE inhibitors.

i stand corrected

 

[Big Dave Smith]

I do believe androgen receptors take up residence in myocytes -Jian-Di Liu et al.

Anabolic-androgenic steroids and cardiovascular risk - PMC

Anabolic-androgenic steroids (AAS) represents a group of synthetic testosterone derivatives that play an important role in clinical treatment. These drugs are widely abused among the general public to increase lean weight and improve athletic ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Loading…

www.ahajournals.org

If this is the case, wouldn’t all androgens cause the same issue?

Wouldn’t all cardiac tissue grow, not just the left ventricle?

It would make sense that the harder the LV works, the more it would grow.

Could be a combination. Just seems like people narrow in on nandrolone when it’s more likely going to be “all gear” or just a slightly false correlation.

 

[JonnyJHutch]

Thank you all for the very informative replies. Has given me a good piece of mind for upcoming offseason, all my bloods are in and everything is in range apart from a slightly off HDL reading so just increasing fish oils to bring back in range.

For off-season cycle was thinking test e, mast e, deca.. dosages I don’t know yet..I’ve never tried that combo before so looking forward to seeing what it brings to the table

Last cycle was test and primo and to be honest didn’t feel great on it, joints were pretty fragile and just didn’t see a massive performance gain from it in the gym

Current weight is 104kg

Current look attached below

 

[Stewie]

If this is the case, wouldn’t all androgens cause the same issue?

Wouldn’t all cardiac tissue grow, not just the left ventricle?

It would make sense that the harder the LV works, the more it would grow.

Could be a combination. Just seems like people narrow in on nandrolone when it’s more likely going to be “all gear” or just a slightly false correlation.

For the sake of conversation, I'm not implying that the androgen receptor is a direct causation of cardiac hypertrophy or LVH. There may be some second messenger systems at play?

There's tissue difference of androgen receptors that are cell-specific that express either full-lenght gene expression, or splice variants that are shortened, limiting gene expression. Shortened splice variants are generally intronic. These variants are essentially lacking specific residues in the N-terminal, that normally give way for RNA transcription that are postulated as the gatekeeper to mitogenic signaling and skeletal muscle hypertrophy.

If you get bored and curiosity piques your interest, look into AR45 and the heart.