Cardarine-GW501516 vs Telmisartán ( Micardis )

[Alex30]

Hello, i would like to know if there is any difference between these two compounds, it seems that they act similar but telmisartan I heard that it is not a good idea to use it when it is in low %bf
Anyone have information on this?

 

[slyfox115]

I heard recently on a podcast Telmisartan lowers RBC count, hemoglobin and hematocrit and still acts as a PPAR agonist. I have never heard of it being beneficial for lipids like GW-501516 though. That and there is long term safety factor with Telmisarten being a regulated drug vs. GW still being a research chem. I am thinking there is a reason why GW never made it fully through the regulation process.

 

[Stewie]

The only major similarities of the two is via PPAR-Gamma. Otherwise, they're vastly different pharmacologically.

 

[nothuman]

I heard recently on a podcast Telmisartan lowers RBC count, hemoglobin and hematocrit and still acts as a PPAR agonist. I have never heard of it being beneficial for lipids like GW-501516 though. That and there is long term safety factor with Telmisarten being a regulated drug vs. GW still being a research chem. I am thinking there is a reason why GW never made it fully through the regulation process.

Was it Telmisartan or Losartan that did all that? I heard about Losartan doing that, but seeing how both are ARBs, they could have the same effect. That being said, I used Telmisartan for four years and it had zero benefit on lowering my Hemoglobin, unfortunately. I’m not at all convinced they have much of an effect when we are taking androgens.

they stopped studying GE because it caused tumors in mice at a human equivalent dose of roughly 60mg daily. I’ve yet to hear of a single human getting cancer from it though, myself included.

I really don’t see what Telmisartan and GW have in common, btw.

 

[aphextwin]

I don’t know about Tel, but Cardarine is wonderful. It’s great for endurance and improving lipids. I’ve used it so many time, and will continue.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

Hello, i would like to know if there is any difference between these two compounds, it seems that they act similar but telmisartan I heard that it is not a good idea to use it when it is in low %bf
Anyone have information on this?

Just to be 100% sure, do you mean Cardarine or Carditone?

 

[warlock]

Just to be 100% sure, do you mean Cardarine or Carditone?

That'd make more sense.

 

[Knight9]

I heard recently on a podcast Telmisartan lowers RBC count, hemoglobin and hematocrit and still acts as a PPAR agonist. I have never heard of it being beneficial for lipids like GW-501516 though. That and there is long term safety factor with Telmisarten being a regulated drug vs. GW still being a research chem. I am thinking there is a reason why GW never made it fully through the regulation process.

Interesting. Can you tell us the podcast?

Also yes I think the OP means carditone.

 

[slyfox115]

Interesting. Can you tell us the podcast?

Also yes I think the OP means carditone.

I believe it was the Victor Black podcast episode 4 with Scott Howell. I think the podcast just started so there aren't many episodes but in a few snippets of other episodes he has mentioned the benefits or ARBs (which sort of led me down the rabbit hole).

I am far from being able to even try to decipher studies so take that for what it's worth but I did find this:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3416676/

Results
We found a significant reduction of serum TC, HbA1c, hemoglobin and hematocrit and RBC count and a significant increase of serum potassium in ARB users, and a reduction of serum TC and hemoglobin in CCB users, from the baseline period to the exposure period. The reductions of RBC count, hemoglobin and hematocrit in ARB users were significantly greater than those in CCB users. The increase of serum potassium in ARB users was significantly greater than that in CCB user

 

[Stewie]

That being said, I used Telmisartan for four years and it had zero benefit on lowering my Hemoglobin, unfortunately. I’m not at all convinced they have much of an effect when we are taking androgens.

We (I) had some chatter here a few (5) years ago believing ACEi/ARBs have a favorable response to bitch-slap erythropoietic stimuli. Cuz science says so. I too seen no reduction in my HH being on lisinopril for a number of years.

Maybe it's grand for some, yourself and I, not so much.

https://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/index.php?threads/ace-inhibitors.128520/

Both ACE inhibitors and ARB's are good choices, IMO. Both have their favourable effects on reducing BP. As well both share nephroprotective and vascular protective effects, there's some data that lisinopril may reduce or prevent glomerular damage. There's also some data that ACE inhibitors such as lisinopril may have suppressive effects on erythropoietin. This can be favourable to those with a chronically elevated RBC/hemoglobin/hematocrit in conjunction with hypertension. Ultimately, one should further evaluate the root cause of erythropoiesis adjacent to AAS. Such as undiagnosed sleep apnea. An interesting thing about telmisartan outside of reducing blood pressure. It's acts as a full PPAR gamma agonist for insulin-sensitizing, and as a partial agonist/partial antagonist for pro-adipocytic activity, which may be beneficial for the prevention of body fat accumulation. As aforementioned, both share some favourable effects, they both, as with all pharmaceutical drugs have side effects. Most are tolerable; at the same time, if any should arise, talk to your primary care provider to possibly switch it out to a different HTN drug.

https://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/index.php?threads/ped-34-with-mike-arnold.129027/

Something else he may consider also. If he has hypertension, that's not controlled by an Rx, he might consider speaking to his primary care provider about the use of an ACE inhibitor or an ARB (angiotensin receptor blockade). There's data indicating both of these HTN drug have been shown to have suppressive actions on erythropoietin. Ultimately, lowering red blood cell production. Somethings to consider.

 

[slyfox115]

That being said, I used Telmisartan for four years and it had zero benefit on lowering my Hemoglobin, unfortunately. I’m not at all convinced they have much of an effect when we are taking androgens.

Well dammit guys you are really raining on my parade here . Maybe that 5th year was when it would really start to take effect (kidding). Even though it didn't work on you, have you heard/seen of it working for anyone else taking exogenous androgens?

 

[nothuman]

Was it Telmisartan or Losartan that did all that? I heard about Losartan doing that, but seeing how both are ARBs, they could have the same effect. That being said, I used Telmisartan for four years and it had zero benefit on lowering my Hemoglobin, unfortunately. I’m not at all convinced they have much of an effect when we are taking androgens.

they stopped studying GE because it caused tumors in mice at a human equivalent dose of roughly 60mg daily. I’ve yet to hear of a single human getting cancer from it though, myself included.

I really don’t see what Telmisartan and GW have in common, btw.

I meant to say GW*, not GE here

 

[nothuman]

Well dammit guys you are really raining on my parade here . Maybe that 5th year was when it would really start to take effect (kidding). Even though it didn't work on you, have you heard/seen of it working for anyone else taking exogenous androgens?

Believe me, I get all giddy whenever ANYTHING shows promise at lowering H/H, but those studies only ever use people who are not on TRT. Although lately on 15mg test daily and proper electrolyte balance, my HG dropped to 18 and my HCT to 54, so I am really happy about that. I was seeing 20/60% routinely for a while there. Donating blood raised my numbers too much because of the rebound effect (low ferritin raises H/H). I believe not donating has helped bring them down to an extent now that me ferritin has recovered.

 

[dros]

If Tel lowers Rbc it wouldn’t be beneficial for endurance(grappling) athletes for me

GW however have been incredible

 

[slyfox115]

If Tel lowers Rbc it wouldn’t be beneficial for endurance(grappling) athletes for me

GW however have been incredible

Increased hematocrit and RBC would be really beneficial for endurance athletes but what if your current strategy put you WAY above high normal? If that was the case you could use Telmisartan to bring it down into the high-normal range so you could still utilize the benefits of increased RBC with it not greatly increasing your risk. This is assuming it actually did lower RBC though.

 

[nothuman]

If Tel lowers Rbc it wouldn’t be beneficial for endurance(grappling) athletes for me

I don't buy this at all. The best endurance athletes have lower hemoglobin counts generally speaking if they're natural.

 

[Ehren]

Looking for GW information here, but since it came up.

Been on lisinopril 5mg for about 6 months.

Recent labs show Hematocrit at 45 on 120 Test TRT/ each week. Prior labs were at 49 in the second week of a cycle (couple years back)
Potassium was low-mid line, sodium and other electrolytes were low. Doc actually told me to add some salt (I had it out of my diet almost completely as well as potassium as I'd read potassium gets high on lisinopril).

Was it the Lisinopril that lowered my Crit? I dunno.

Caveats:
I do a lot of hard cardio. Always above 140 BPM as a rule. And HIIT that reaches 100% Max HR, 2x a week.
I'm pretty lean. Dunno if that factors into lower Hematocrit.
I was very hydrated at the blood draw.

 

[totalrecomp]

Well dammit guys you are really raining on my parade here . Maybe that 5th year was when it would really start to take effect (kidding). Even though it didn't work on you, have you heard/seen of it working for anyone else taking exogenous androgens?

The lowering of H/H, from my understanding, is one of the potential "side effects" of telmisartan which COULD be an issue if used in someone such as an anemic 97lb grandmother. For "us" at best this MAY reduce H/H a touch but taking it solely, for this reason, is hopeful at best. IF it lowers one's H/H lucky them but obviously this side effect is rare as were it to be common the drug would be a pretty shitty option for the general public.

This is the best information I have found comparing the various ARBs: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4947116/

 

[pickapeck]

Believe me, I get all giddy whenever ANYTHING shows promise at lowering H/H, but those studies only ever use people who are not on TRT. Although lately on 15mg test daily and proper electrolyte balance, my HG dropped to 18 and my HCT to 54, so I am really happy about that. I was seeing 20/60% routinely for a while there. Donating blood raised my numbers too much because of the rebound effect (low ferritin raises H/H). I believe not donating has helped bring them down to an extent now that me ferritin has recovered.

Glad to see your numbers improving. As you know I take a month off every now and then and my Hct comes down to topish of normal range that way. I have not donated blood in years because I had the same issue as you did.

 

[aphextwin]

Aren’t there guys on here who Telmisarten?