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Composite Cycle of Bulking Then Cutting

Cosmicdrifter

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Does it make sense to do a 12 week bulking cycle with Deca, Test, and Dbol, and then do 4 -6 weeks of Test, Tren, and some combination of Anavar, Winstrol, or Masteron.

Essentially a composite cycle; first X weeks bulk, then final X weeks cutting?
 

Quad-smack

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In a word, no.
I dislike the terms "bulking" and "cutting".
Mass-accrual and body-fat reduction are both much more determined by nutrition and aerobic activity than simply aromatizing vs non-aromatizing aas.
 

Cosmicdrifter

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In a word, no.
I dislike the terms "bulking" and "cutting".
Mass-accrual and body-fat reduction are both much more determined by nutrition and aerobic activity than simply aromatizing vs non-aromatizing aas.
What! Are we back to this subject again. I understand nutrition, and I can lose weight without aerobic activity. If you are making the point that AAS are inconsequential and that what we need to do is intake 500mg of protein and 300mg of carbs each day to get big, I agree.

What does that have to do with the question I asked; if you answer were universally accepted, then we could tell new users of AAS to take anavar and winstrol to add muscle mass - I mean accrue mass.

I'm asking does it make sense to use a mass-building cycle for 12 weeks, and then switch to a cutting cycle in the same cycle.
 

Johnny Smiles

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think in terms of "growing into a show." i know that phrase is a bit over used but really think about it like that and research it as such and thats your answer imo.

i will spell it out a little bit. its all about having most muscle at end of cycle or by show time so i would do something like:
start with a little bit of drugs and food. when you stop growing from that amount add more drugs and more food and get bigger and bigger while keeping fat down until you are your biggest.
honestly its slmost that simple.
lot of variables of course but thats the big picture (pun intended)
-JS
 
Last edited:

Cosmicdrifter

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think in terms of "growing into a show." i know that phrase is a bit over used but really think about it like that and research it as such and thats your answer imo.

i will spell it out a little bit. its all about having most muscle at end of cycle or by show time so i would do something like:
start with a little bit of drugs and food. when you stop growing from that amount add more drugs and more food and get bigger and bigger while keeping fat down until you are your biggest.
honestly its slmost that simple.
lot of variables of course but thats the big picture (pun intended)
-JS
You seem to be talking about an incremental process; I was questioning whether a bi-phasic process might be useful to get more done in one cycle than two separate cycles.

The cycle you discussed is interesting; I wonder how many people on this board have used it and exactly what they did and the results?
 

Quad-smack

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What! Are we back to this subject again. I understand nutrition, and I can lose weight without aerobic activity. If you are making the point that AAS are inconsequential and that what we need to do is intake 500mg of protein and 300mg of carbs each day to get big, I agree.

What does that have to do with the question I asked; if you answer were universally accepted, then we could tell new users of AAS to take anavar and winstrol to add muscle mass - I mean accrue mass.

I'm asking does it make sense to use a mass-building cycle for 12 weeks, and then switch to a cutting cycle in the same cycle.

I think we are both over-reading and misunderstanding each other.

I'm certain that with proper nutrition one can lose weight without aerobic activity.

I'm not making the point that aas are inconsequential. Far from it. What I have read here ad nauseum is "I'm gonna take some test, tren & winny and get freaking cut, dude!". Weeks/months later the same people post their products were bunk, 'cause they didn't see results. Guess what? They didn't watch their diet or do any cardio thinking the drugs would do the trick. I guess it gets under my skin a little that some people are that lazy or in search of the ultimate quick-fix. But, I digress...

It does make perfect sense to start with mass-building aas to then rotate to lean-mass, non-aromatizing aas to achieve the finished product. Many years ago, I would start out with test-e and equipoise then at 10 weeks out switch to test-p, tren-a. Then, at 4 wks out add in mast-p & winny. 2 weeks out drop the test. When you get your bodyfat low enough, what products you take (or not) can have dramatic effects on your appearance.

Peace,
Q-S
 
Last edited:

Cosmicdrifter

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I think we are both over-reading and misunderstanding each other.

I'm certain that with proper nutrition one can lose weight without aerobic activity.

I'm not making the point that aas are inconsequential. Far from it. What I have read here ad nauseum is "I'm gonna take some test, tren & winny and get freaking cut, dude!". Weeks/months later the same people post their products were bunk, 'cause they didn't see results. Guess what? They didn't watch their diet or do any cardio thinking the drugs would do the trick. I guess it gets under my skin a little that some people are that lazy or in search of the ultimate quick-fix. But, I digress...

It does make perfect sense to start with mass-building aas to then rotate to lean-mass, non-aromatizing aas to achieve the finished product. Many years ago, I would start out with test-e and equipoise then at 10 weeks out switch to test-p, tren-a. Then, at 4 wks out add in mast-p & winny. 2 weeks out drop the test. When you get your bodyfat low enough, what products you take (or not) can have dramatic effects on your appearance.

Peace,
Q-S
Thank you Quad-smack; exactly what I wanted to know. If there was a precedent for using the strategy I suggested. I think the cycle you used (of course understanding that you have to control for diet during each phase) is terrific.

One question is, how well did it work for you - I mean did you do several cycles a year using the same strategy, or did you change the next cycle? When I thought about it, it seemed logical but until you hear from someone who uses it you don't know.
 

Quad-smack

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Once I learned the proper protocol, it worked quite well. Because of the length, I usually only did 1-2 cycles per year - most often just 1.
You always have to toggle/adjust your amounts and choice of product depending on many factors. Nutrition scheme, amount of sleep, stress from life, starting point conditioning, etc. I can honestly say that no two contest preps were exactly the same.
 

concreteguy

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i will spell it out a little bit. its all about having most muscle at end of cycle or by show time so i would do something like:
start with a little bit of drugs and food. when you stop growing from that amount add more drugs and more food and get bigger and bigger while keeping fat down until you are your biggest.
honestly its slmost that simple.
lot of variables of course but thats the big picture (pun intended)
-JS
LOL......OMG! Do you have any idea how much bandwidth has been devoted to this simple answer? Johnny, you da man!
 

Johnny Smiles

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LOL......OMG! Do you have any idea how much bandwidth has been devoted to this simple answer? Johnny, you da man!
LOL!
haven't seen you around for a little bit Concrete, hope all is well!
-JS
 

epoxy

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I prefer to do a "lean bulk" with Test/Tren/NPP and Var. I keep my calories up from proteins and fats, and my carbs on the lower end, especially on non lift days. I've found I can go up in weight without going up in waist size much easier like this. The gains arent extremely fast but there isn't as much to get rid of in the end. With Tren if I'm not eating a substantial amount, I'll find I most likely lose body fat while putting on mass. Whatever I have left over at the end I drop every compound except Test and would run a 7-10 day DNP cycle to remove any extra unwanted fat, and viola.
 

Cosmicdrifter

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LOL......OMG! Do you have any idea how much bandwidth has been devoted to this simple answer? Johnny, you da man!
If you want to see some bandwidth pissed away, try Googling "growing into a show," and see how much bullshit you get. It's described in 50 different ways.
 

concreteguy

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If you want to see some bandwidth pissed away, try Googling "growing into a show," and see how much bullshit you get. It's described in 50 different ways.
One of those threads are a classic. I forget the name but it's about what Cutler himself does. What a soup bowl of secrets and mirrors! When I read Johnnys post it was the first thing I thought of.

Johnny, your just a couple years late on that answer. Would have cut that thread short twenty pages I bet.;)
 

Johnny Smiles

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One of those threads are a classic. I forget the name but it's about what Cutler himself does. What a soup bowl of secrets and mirrors! When I read Johnnys post it was the first thing I thought of.

Johnny, your just a couple years late on that answer. Would have cut that thread short twenty pages I bet.;)
yeah i hear ya concrete.
the cutler thread was freakin funny. people love to believe in smoke and mirrors:D

cosmicdrifter, glad you took the time to look it up tho. hopefully you came across something worth your time. i really just don't look at it as bulking and cutting. the goal is always to put on muscle. and i think the best way to do that is by being progressive with all elements involved.
-JS
 

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