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crazy end of cycle Bloodwork

heavyhitter

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i know and eventually will in future, but i dont feel ready yet (although im already over 30, haha)..
I want to play it as safe as possible and i do not need to get ultra huge, thats why ive opted for non-inj yet.. (well, i know test is as safe as possible in moderate dosages but if i go the inj route it will probably not stay with test..)

what do you think about what i should do right now (not considering inj)
- stop the cycle and go on pct
- go on "even more cruise dosages" (see above, 15mg dermatrest(=2,5mg inj) + 10mg anavar daily)
- increase dosages since everything looks fine and extend cycle for another 6-8 weeks
?
thanks bro!

With blood work looking good id personally up dose and continue on
 

Elvia1023

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I do think LDL and Trigs are the most important values but why didn't you get HDL tested? In my experience avar has more effect on HDL than any other value. I am not stating this to have a go but you need to get over your fear of injecting. Start with backloaded slin pins to make it easier for you.
 

AthleticApe123

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I do think LDL and Trigs are the most important values but why didn't you get HDL tested? In my experience avar has more effect on HDL than any other value. I am not stating this to have a go but you need to get over your fear of injecting. Start with backloaded slin pins to make it easier for you.

Hi Elvia,
thanks for your input. To be honest, not sure, probably to safe some bucks but i dont even know what it costs because i always was under the impression that HDL was less important than LDL..
Yeah dude, i know, but it is not that easy.. with slin pins, are you talking about sub Q instead of IM? does that work?
 

rmtt

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Hi Elvia,
thanks for your input. To be honest, not sure, probably to safe some bucks but i dont even know what it costs because i always was under the impression that HDL was less important than LDL..
Yeah dude, i know, but it is not that easy.. with slin pins, are you talking about sub Q instead of IM? does that work?
I use slin pins IM for most all my shots. Just find an area on your body that's relatively lean...and hit it. I do shoulders, quads....even traps one time.

But when you're talking about 29-31 ga pins....you don't feel anything.

Hell.....25ga doesn't bother me for some of the larger dose stuff like Synthetine and B12 that I'm using.

Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk
 

AthleticApe123

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I use slin pins IM for most all my shots. Just find an area on your body that's relatively lean...and hit it. I do shoulders, quads....even traps one time.

But when you're talking about 29-31 ga pins....you don't feel anything.

Hell.....25ga doesn't bother me for some of the larger dose stuff like Synthetine and B12 that I'm using.

Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk

Hi rmtt,
nice to meet you, read a topic that you have made about your "comeback" with low dosages and i really like what ive seen.. very low dosages and yet great body, congratz!
you have "built" most of your mass with higher dosages or have you ever been a low dosage guy?
i am not sure what that ga means in measurement (diameter of needle i guess?), have to google first, hehe :p
I guess i have to dig deeper into real AAS for the future, you guys are right..
what do you think about my current cycle? 11 weeks done, now i have some options
- drop everything and go on PCT (got everything on hand)
- go to "cruise dosages" (maybe 40% of current dosage)
- keep going with current dosages and extend
- increase dosages for another few week
What would you do rmtt? really apprecite your opinion since you are def one of the more conventional guys..
thanks alot!
 

nothuman

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I've never seen an LDL that low. 13??? I'd want my LDL higher than that because you need some.
 

jp4355

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To OP:
While I understand that you are looking to save some Money.
But I don't understand why you wouldn't run a Hormone Panel.
This way you check to see if Estrogen is under control, plus you get the Info on TotalTest/LH and FSH

Have a question on the Anavar, which is a Favorite of mine.
If I read it correctly, how did you do 17.5 Mg.
I would have to be cutting my 10 Mg Tabs into 4.
I would just go with 20 Mg if you are doing the 10 Mg Tabs............. JP
 
Last edited:

AthleticApe123

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I've never seen an LDL that low. 13??? I'd want my LDL higher than that because you need some.

hi nothuman,
yeah, was even checked twice by lab. Same for triglycerides (also says double checked in brackets). Triglycerides are also very low with 15.
I guess it has to do with my on-cycle supp regime (which is plenty) and the fact that i keep my saturated fats very low on cycle?
can you explain for what you need ldl/chol on cycle? i could always add in more saturated fats and cut some protein. I have read low ldl can lead to anxienty which i def have (i have mad anxienty regarding my health, thats why i am very consequent with blood work and cardiologist appointments (at least twice a year for checkup)
off-cycle and during bulk (higher fat intake) my LDL is usually also below 55
@jp4355:
i had estrogen tested @ week3 of cycle and it was too low, hence ive dropped my 12,5mg aromasin e2d to non and my "feelings" says it should be fine now.
i have caps from UK with 25mg content and i measure 17,5mg with a fine scale (measures up to 1mg, maybe im taking 17 somedays and 18 other days)
 
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nothuman

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hi nothuman,
yeah, was even checked twice by lab. Same for triglycerides (also says double checked in brackets). Triglycerides are also very low with 15.
I guess it has to do with my on-cycle supp regime (which is plenty) and the fact that i keep my saturated fats very low on cycle?
can you explain for what you need ldl/chol on cycle? i could always add in more saturated fats and cut some protein. I have read low ldl can lead to anxienty which i def have (i have mad anxienty regarding my health, thats why i am very consequent with blood work and cardiologist appointments (at least twice a year for checkup)
off-cycle and during bulk (higher fat intake) my LDL is usually also below 55
@jp4355:
i had estrogen tested @ week3 of cycle and it was too low, hence ive dropped my 12,5mg aromasin e2d to non and my "feelings" says it should be fine now.
i have caps from UK with 25mg content and i measure 17,5mg with a fine scale (measures up to 1mg, maybe im taking 17 somedays and 18 other days)

You need a particle size test and NMR lipoprofile. Having an LDL of 13 is not a good thing. You need further testing to figure out why those numbers are so low. LDL-C is the only kind you don't want.

**broken link removed**

I would encourage you to do more research on google as well. Have you ever had a lipid profile before now?
 

AthleticApe123

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You need a particle size test and NMR lipoprofile. Having an LDL of 13 is not a good thing. You need further testing to figure out why those numbers are so low. LDL-C is the only kind you don't want.

**broken link removed**

I would encourage you to do more research on google as well. Have you ever had a lipid profile before now?

yeah, i usually have hdl and ldl twice yearly.
both values are typical low for me, on or off cycle
HDL hovers around 27-35, ldl between 45 and 60 when bulking off cycle
on cycle both are usually a bit lower
ok, will see if i can have such a test here..
 

rmtt

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Honestly man....that is a hard question. A lot of things depends upon your age. I think I was 28 years old when I started taking these things. By that time...I had already had a vasectomy, and knew going in that I would never have any more kids and that I would probably end up going straight to TRT.

Most mg wise I have ever done is actually what I'm doing now. And that is Test at 250mg/ Primo at 300mg.

In the past...I think my first run was 300mg of test. I would run a cycle...go back to TRT levels (125mg) and just cruise at that. Always making a point to get blood work. I never really used any crazy compounds except for Tren two different times...and I swore it off. I've ran GH at 2-3iu's a day for extended periods of time as I got older...but always kept a watch on my A1C and Glucose numbers.

I don't consider my build anything great. I found out early on that my body loved low rep, high volume, heavy weight work. I would use just enough supplements to keep progressing with my logbook, and I did the same with diet and calories. When trying to build...eat just enough extra to keep things moving forward. When trying to lean up.....try to keep as much food in as I could and fight like hell to not let my strength go down.

The last couple of years I am a big fan of doing faster acting compounds. I do Test at 100mg a week when on TRT, and when I do add something in I will usually add in something like Test prop and NPP or Mast A...and usually at a total of around 400mg a week...and no longer than 8 weeks. After that it's back down to 100mg a week or test.

I have a script for test. Awhile back it was for 125-150mg a week...but that number put my estrogen levels almost to a point where my doctor suggested an AI. He had me on one shot a week.

It was then that I started reading about pinning everyday and being able to use less. So I brought it up with my doctor..and he Said lets go try it. So we dropped back to around 100mg a week and I pin everyday with a slin pin.

Granted my total test dropped a little, but my estrogen dropped a good bit. I felt better...and I would much rather give up a few points on my total test score than to have to use and dial in an AI.

There are others on here far more versed in PCT as I went into this knowing I wouldn't be coming off. And you are correct..ga (gauge) does mean diameter of needle. When we say we backload...we are pulling test from a bottle with a 22-25 ga needle, and then filling up an insulin syringe that may have anywhere from a 27-31 ga needle on it. So pinning with that smaller needle leaves less scar tissue, and is not as daunting to someone who may have never injected before. There are some great stickies on here about how to inject.

As to where you go from here....I can't answer that for you. From reading the thread, it seems like you also have some other issues going on that I would want to have checked on first. I know personally I would not be on any orals that long..or even think of extending them.

I would never start a cycle without having supporting blood work before...and even during so that you can see what is going on with your body. That way you know if something is not right, you can stop.

Another thing...I have never used an oral in my life. I don't even use over the counter pain meds as I feel your liver has enough work to do with just the general day to day toxins we encounter.

Everyone here will tell you that diet and training are the most important parts of this process...but they are nothing without consistency. Once you have that down...then you can add in your supplements. But I have always looked at it like this.....your body isn't going to change overnight. Go into this with a long term plan, and with smaller goals set along that plan.

To me...that means being healthy enough to be able to be doing this for many years to come.

It really doesn't take a lot of "help" to keep progressing. I look back and most of the time I could have tweaked my diet or training to illicit progress again instead of adding more hormones. Now I look at that like it's a last resort. I exhaust everything else...and only then do I consider changing up something that I am taking.

But take this as you wish......I am for the most part very conservative. I trained for years with a guy who wouldn't even consider taking a shot unless the barrel was full...and he didn't care what was in it. And even when on ungodly amounts of stuff...his blood work would come back stellar. I witnessed it many times.

But at some point regardless...I feel like it will eventually catch up to him.

Just keep in mind that this is a lifelong endeavor if you share the passion that most of us here do. Plan for the long haul and be safe. You only get one body.

Again...this is only my opinion and the way I go about it. I graduated high school barely weighing 140lbs. I know sit around 195 lbs. It's taken me years to get to that point.....but crazy enough I know that I can still improve.

Good luck with whatever you decide.





Hi rmtt,
nice to meet you, read a topic that you have made about your "comeback" with low dosages and i really like what ive seen.. very low dosages and yet great body, congratz!
you have "built" most of your mass with higher dosages or have you ever been a low dosage guy?
i am not sure what that ga means in measurement (diameter of needle i guess?), have to google first, hehe :p
I guess i have to dig deeper into real AAS for the future, you guys are right..
what do you think about my current cycle? 11 weeks done, now i have some options
- drop everything and go on PCT (got everything on hand)
- go to "cruise dosages" (maybe 40% of current dosage)
- keep going with current dosages and extend
- increase dosages for another few week
What would you do rmtt? really apprecite your opinion since you are def one of the more conventional guys..
thanks alot!
 

AthleticApe123

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Hi rmtt,

thank you very much for your detailed answer and that you took time to go in such depth, i really appreciate your help.
I dont want any kids either, atleast i am pretty certain about that because in my opinion, bringing kids into this world nowadays is not what i want. There is so much shit going on with society nowadays that with each generation, it will be harder to get through life..
You can be proud on what you have achieved, dont worry.
I guess for both of us, health is priority number one. yet we love our sport and this is atleast for many, part of it.
To be honest, i love training. I train consequently since 10 years now and i dont want to miss the sport. Together with family and health it is number1 in my life.
And the other thing about the performance enhancers: I take them to increase my workload without burning out. I love going to the gym, on weekends and when i dont have to work i often split my sessions into 2 a day and i love it!!

To the other thing:
i do have supporting off cycle bloods ofc.
my cholesterol is usually between 70 and 95, LDL between 40 and 60 and HDL between 25 and 40.
They are always low, this time i think LDL is esp. low due to tons of on cycle supps and my very low sat. fat intake (well, total fat intake is pretty low tbh since its my last weeks of cutting, around 25-30g daily)
I also would never start without knowing that everything is alright beforehand..
MY Cystatin C value even improved on cycle (dropped 0,05) and in my opinion, this value is very good to measure kidney and cardiac health..

Can you explain what you mean with "you have other issues going on that should be checked first"?
I have went through this blood work with my doc and she told me im healthy is shit according to them. No word about LDL or Triglyc. being too low. She even wondered why my creatinine was as good as it is although being mascular and eating tons of protein (but i guess protein intake doesnt influence creatinine anyway, docs often dont know..)
I dont want to miss anything and let my health go down. Ive increased my fat intake since nothuman posted that link in regards to bring triglyc. and LDL a bit higher.

Also, ive researched about real AAS yesterday. Seems this would be the right way to go, i have even seen that test is cheap as sh** compared to those "legal prohormones" or anavar..
Just have to look for sources or try to see a doc and talk to him what i want to do and if there is a way to get it from him.
what would be a good "start"?
I have read many ppl prefer injecting more than once a week even if they take test e. maybe 250mg a week split in two?
 

rmtt

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Hi rmtt,

thank you very much for your detailed answer and that you took time to go in such depth, i really appreciate your help.
I dont want any kids either, atleast i am pretty certain about that because in my opinion, bringing kids into this world nowadays is not what i want. There is so much shit going on with society nowadays that with each generation, it will be harder to get through life..
You can be proud on what you have achieved, dont worry.
I guess for both of us, health is priority number one. yet we love our sport and this is atleast for many, part of it.
To be honest, i love training. I train consequently since 10 years now and i dont want to miss the sport. Together with family and health it is number1 in my life.
And the other thing about the performance enhancers: I take them to increase my workload without burning out. I love going to the gym, on weekends and when i dont have to work i often split my sessions into 2 a day and i love it!!

To the other thing:
i do have supporting off cycle bloods ofc.
my cholesterol is usually between 70 and 95, LDL between 40 and 60 and HDL between 25 and 40.
They are always low, this time i think LDL is esp. low due to tons of on cycle supps and my very low sat. fat intake (well, total fat intake is pretty low tbh since its my last weeks of cutting, around 25-30g daily)
I also would never start without knowing that everything is alright beforehand..
MY Cystatin C value even improved on cycle (dropped 0,05) and in my opinion, this value is very good to measure kidney and cardiac health..

Can you explain what you mean with "you have other issues going on that should be checked first"?
I have went through this blood work with my doc and she told me im healthy is shit according to them. No word about LDL or Triglyc. being too low. She even wondered why my creatinine was as good as it is although being mascular and eating tons of protein (but i guess protein intake doesnt influence creatinine anyway, docs often dont know..)
I dont want to miss anything and let my health go down. Ive increased my fat intake since nothuman posted that link in regards to bring triglyc. and LDL a bit higher.

Also, ive researched about real AAS yesterday. Seems this would be the right way to go, i have even seen that test is cheap as sh** compared to those "legal prohormones" or anavar..
Just have to look for sources or try to see a doc and talk to him what i want to do and if there is a way to get it from him.
what would be a good "start"?
I have read many ppl prefer injecting more than once a week even if they take test e. maybe 250mg a week split in two?


Just the issues with the lipids...especially being that low. Most people are actively trying to lower these ranges...and yours are barely registering.

Honestly I have never looked into the ramifications of having levels that low, but I would make sure that there isn't any underlying issue going on before progressing with your supplementation.

My advice about test....see a doctor and get a script if you can swing it although it will come down to what your lab ranges look like. If you can't...the you do what you have to do.

But I can say I would much rather be taking 100-150mg of test per week than running Anavar, SARM, or a "Pro-Hormone".
 

AthleticApe123

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Just the issues with the lipids...especially being that low. Most people are actively trying to lower these ranges...and yours are barely registering.

Honestly I have never looked into the ramifications of having levels that low, but I would make sure that there isn't any underlying issue going on before progressing with your supplementation.

My advice about test....see a doctor and get a script if you can swing it although it will come down to what your lab ranges look like. If you can't...the you do what you have to do.

But I can say I would much rather be taking 100-150mg of test per week than running Anavar, SARM, or a "Pro-Hormone".

thanks for the clarification.
I have researched low ldl and it seems most problems associated go back to anxienty.. which i definitely have and the ldl might be the reason..?

I have decided which way i go:
- i will drop to "cruise dosages" - half dosages i am currently running, so next to nothing.
- in 7 weeks, i will have an appointment @ an urologist and talk to him bout TRT. my plan: go about a week after cycle ends so testosterone is still suppressed and bloodtest gives a suppressed reading. Am i thinking correctly or do i miss something?

btw, i guess you guys are no fans of gels for trt, right?
 

AthleticApe123

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You need a particle size test and NMR lipoprofile. Having an LDL of 13 is not a good thing. You need further testing to figure out why those numbers are so low. LDL-C is the only kind you don't want.

**broken link removed**

I would encourage you to do more research on google as well. Have you ever had a lipid profile before now?

Hi nothuman again,
i did excessive researching now and it seems low LDL is not as problematic as you think apart from the anxienty issue.
furthermore, with my triglyceride levels, the particle size test seems not necessary because low triglyc usually goes along with a low lvl of the "small LDL particles that are a risk.
There are two pretty new articles about LDL and medical research.
**broken link removed**
http://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa1615664

from the end of last year. Maybe give it a read since you are also quite "knowledge-hungry" concerning health/medical topics i assume :)
 

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