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creatine?

Mike Arnold

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I keep forgetting to restock. I don't think anyone else mentioned it, but there are definite cognitive benefits to creatine. Nothing dramatic, but my thinking is sharper when I keep on it. Just ordered a kilogram this morning for $10. No reason to NOT stay on it, as long as your gut agrees.


Yes, there are. Creatine has mild nootropic properties.
 

kingpeon

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Leucine does, yes. As for the other two BCAAs, not so much. Also, because insulin sensitivity is higher post-training, absorption will be more efficient compared to other times of the day.
How about the other amino acids? I take Beverly's Mass aminos.
 

Mike Arnold

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How about the other amino acids? I take Beverly's Mass aminos.

I could be wrong here, but I believe that the only EAA with significant insulinogenic properties is leucine.
 

kingpeon

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I could be wrong here, but I believe that the only EAA with significant insulinogenic properties is leucine.
Interesting, thanks Mike.
 

Massive G

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I always forget about creatine and what a great supplement and the many benefits it has. So thanks for the thread.
I got some CEE on the way...and going through my supplements found some TN creapure I ordered sometime ago and forgot about it.
Interesting in searching around found this tid bit
Researchers Discover CREATINE is an 'Anti-Cancer' Nutrient
Since it was first introduced the supplement creatine to the fitness world, over 20 years ago, hundreds of studies have shown it does help people who exercise get better results faster. Creatine increases cellular energy in the body and improves recover time between workouts and it boosts strength by as much as or more than 25% within 6 weeks.
More recently, scientific studies have shown that creatine increases mental performance and brain health as much as it increases muscle strength. Creatine supplementation has been shown to improve IQ, memory, and problem solving abilities. It has also been shown to increase lifespan very significantly.
Pharmaceutical companies are eager to launch creatine (in combination with CoQ10 because it helps creatine work ever better) as a new drug. Phase III clinical trials are near completion and the 'new drug' creatine will soon be FDA approved for treatment of certain neurodegenerative diseases (Huntington's, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, ALS, MS... all are neurodegenerative diseases to some extent). Aging is also a nueorodengerative process but health-conscious supplement buyers will likely still be able to purchase creatine without a prescription, as long as it is not being used for the treatment of disease. Taking creatine for preventative purposes is likely to still be allowed.
Now, in addition to all that, scientists have discovered creatine supplementation my help prevent and treat certain forms of cancer. The Journal of Investigative Dermatology published a study revealing the profound anti-aging and even anti-tumor effects of creatine supplementation: ”These data indicate that increase of the energy precursor creatine protects from functionally relevant, aging associated mutations of mtDNA… [these] mutations play a role in neurodegeneration, normal aging, premature aging of the skin, and (cancer) tumors… In addition to this, mtDNA mutations have also been reported to be increased in several types of tumors affecting the colon, bladder, lung, breast, kidney, head, and neck.” Further research will help scientists and doctors develop a better understanding of how creatine might be added to cancer prevention and treatment protocols.
The scientific studies have used pure, pharmaceutical grade creatine monohydrate in their trials and have the data to show it is safe and effective.
 

Chode Logan

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Mike what are your thoughts on Creatine HCL?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
 

Stewie

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I'll take 5grams of creatine with a half teaspoon of sodium bicarbonate about 30 minutes before my workout. The benefits of doing this with the adjuvant of sodium bicarbonate acts as a buffer on exercise-induced acidosis. There's also tid-bits of research suggesting sodium bicarbonate may have an effect on lipolysis.

There's animal studies showing synergistic effects of creatine and magnesium bisglycinate chelate of a molar ratio of 1:1.

I'm not sure how this would translate on human effects of either synergistically or additive effects.

As Mike stated, there's no need to load.
 

Ashop

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Of course everyone here is using creatine for training, but how many of you guys are still loading with creatine? We are talking about it on evo now and the discussion is that creatine loading is BS and isn't required at all. Do you guys load and why? I personally creatine load myself, so I'm kind used to it.

I think it was a marketing ploy in the beginning to just sell more CREATINE. For myself and others I train I have found that its just not necessary.
 

Jbro

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You might want to look into Kre-alkalyn a bit. Originally, it was marketed as being "more" effective than monohydrate, per gram, due to its superior PH balance. This study was conducted by the makers of Kre-alkalyn.



However, subsequent research has shown that it is LESS effective. I believe there are at least a few studies showing this.



This wouldn't be the first time a "new" form of creatine was initially promoted as being superior for whatever reason, but was subsequently shown to be junk (remember creatine ethyl ester?) or less efficacious to various degrees. I am not saying this is the case with Kre-alkalyn, but I do know university studies have been conducted disproving Kre-alkalyn's original claims.


Thanks mike. I hadn't checked for the updated studies on this stuff. It's no wonder I have to take two or three times the recommended serving to feel like I'm getting anything from it. I saw your advice about other types that were easier on the stomach too, I'll give one of those a shot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

silverTT

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I use good ole monohydrate, 5gms pre/post workout on training days and usually 5gms 1-2 times am/pm on off days.

I've known of the neurological support creatine can provide but does anyone know how it works from a neuropharmacotherapeutic standpoint? Why, how does it provide cognitive support?
 

Mike Arnold

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Mike what are your thoughts on Creatine HCL?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I know it has become somewhat popular recently, but I personally haven't seen any research on it (which is pretty important when trying to assess any form of creatine), so I couldn't really say. Sorry.
 

Chode Logan

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I know it has become somewhat popular recently, but I personally haven't seen any research on it (which is pretty important when trying to assess any form of creatine), so I couldn't really say. Sorry.
I'm sticking with mono cause it works well for me, I was just curious

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
 

Mike Arnold

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I always forget about creatine and what a great supplement and the many benefits it has. So thanks for the thread.
I got some CEE on the way...and going through my supplements found some TN creapure I ordered sometime ago and forgot about it.
Interesting in searching around found this tid bit
Researchers Discover CREATINE is an 'Anti-Cancer' Nutrient
Since it was first introduced the supplement creatine to the fitness world, over 20 years ago, hundreds of studies have shown it does help people who exercise get better results faster. Creatine increases cellular energy in the body and improves recover time between workouts and it boosts strength by as much as or more than 25% within 6 weeks.
More recently, scientific studies have shown that creatine increases mental performance and brain health as much as it increases muscle strength. Creatine supplementation has been shown to improve IQ, memory, and problem solving abilities. It has also been shown to increase lifespan very significantly.
Pharmaceutical companies are eager to launch creatine (in combination with CoQ10 because it helps creatine work ever better) as a new drug. Phase III clinical trials are near completion and the 'new drug' creatine will soon be FDA approved for treatment of certain neurodegenerative diseases (Huntington's, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, ALS, MS... all are neurodegenerative diseases to some extent). Aging is also a nueorodengerative process but health-conscious supplement buyers will likely still be able to purchase creatine without a prescription, as long as it is not being used for the treatment of disease. Taking creatine for preventative purposes is likely to still be allowed.
Now, in addition to all that, scientists have discovered creatine supplementation my help prevent and treat certain forms of cancer. The Journal of Investigative Dermatology published a study revealing the profound anti-aging and even anti-tumor effects of creatine supplementation: ”These data indicate that increase of the energy precursor creatine protects from functionally relevant, aging associated mutations of mtDNA… [these] mutations play a role in neurodegeneration, normal aging, premature aging of the skin, and (cancer) tumors… In addition to this, mtDNA mutations have also been reported to be increased in several types of tumors affecting the colon, bladder, lung, breast, kidney, head, and neck.” Further research will help scientists and doctors develop a better understanding of how creatine might be added to cancer prevention and treatment protocols.
The scientific studies have used pure, pharmaceutical grade creatine monohydrate in their trials and have the data to show it is safe and effective.


I would AVOID the creatine ethyl ester (CEE) completely. There have been multiple studies done showing it is ineffective. Even the companies that originally released it (VPX being one of them) have abandoned it. The only companies currently selling it are those which have ignored the research (unlikely), aren't aware of it (also unlikely), or are intentionally selling a product they know is shit.

I am also aware of some companies out there that have purchased bulk CEE from other companies that no longer want to sell it (because they feel it is unethical to continue selling a form of creatine they know doesn't work), at a VERY cheap price in the hope of making a decent profit by selling it to uneducated consumers. Basically, these companies continue making the same claims that were made a decade ago, despite all research to the contrary, in the hopes some ignorant buyer will be fooled. Below I have attached a snippet from a PudMed document addressing the effectiveness of this form of creatine, along with the link if you want to look at the entire thing.

Creatine is a hydrophilic polar molecule that consists of a negatively charged carboxyl group and a positively charged functional group [64]. The hydrophilic nature of creatine limits its bioavailability [65]. In an attempt to increase creatines bioavailability creatine has been esterified to reduce the hydrophilicity; this product is known as creatine ethyl ester. Manufacturers of creatine ethyl ester promote their product as being able to by-pass the creatine transporter due to improved sarcolemmal permeability toward creatine [65]. Spillane et al [65] analyzed the effects of a 5 days loading protocol (0.30 g/kg lean mass) followed by a 42 days maintenance phase (0.075 g/kg lean mass) of CM or ethyl ester both combined with a resistance training program in 30 novice males with no previous resistance training experience. The results of this study [65] showed that ethyl ester was not as effective as CM to enhance serum and muscle creatine stores. Furthermore creatine ethyl ester offered no additional benefit for improving body composition, muscle mass, strength, and power. This research did not support the claims of the creatine ethyl ester manufacturers.

In other words, it did pretty much nothing that creatine is supposed to do. Namely, enhance strength and size.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3407788/
 
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Stewie

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I use good ole monohydrate, 5gms pre/post workout on training days and usually 5gms 1-2 times am/pm on off days.

I've known of the neurological support creatine can provide but does anyone know how it works from a neuropharmacotherapeutic standpoint? Why, how does it provide cognitive support?

It would be through the same mode of action as muscle--adenosine triphosphate (ATP) via phosphocreatine. ATP not only acts as a source of energy, it's also classified as a neurotransmitter which activates synaptic transmission. Hence increased cognitive function.

Our brain requires much more energy than any other parts of our body. Durning periods of hypoxia, such as that by uncontrolled sleep apnea, brain levels of ATP can become acutely depleted. This will also be seen in those with neurodegenerative diseases, which is directly related to mitochondrial disease.

Those with uncontrolled/undiagnosed sleep apnea may experience more enhanced cognitive function, than those without.
 
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Stewie

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It would be through the same mode of action as muscle--adenosine triphosphate (ATP) via phosphocreatine. ATP not only acts as a source of energy, it's also classified as a neurotransmitter which activates synaptic transmission. Hence increased cognitive function.

Our brain requires much more energy than any other parts of our body. Durning periods of hypoxia, such as that by uncontrolled sleep apnea, brain levels of ATP can become acutely depleted. This will also be seen in those with neurodegenerative diseases, which is directly related to mitochondrial disease. As ATP synthase is the main component of mitochondrial energy conversion.

Those with uncontrolled/undiagnosed sleep apnea may experience more enhanced cognitive function, than those without.

Edit:
Add in for a little better understanding.
 
Last edited:

Stewie

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Massive G

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I would AVOID the creatine ethyl ester (CEE) completely. There have been multiple studies done showing it is ineffective. Even the companies that originally released it (VPX being one of them) have abandoned it. The only companies currently selling it are those which have ignored the research (unlikely), aren't aware of it (also unlikely), or are intentionally selling a product they know is shit.

I am also aware of some companies out there that have purchased bulk CEE from other companies that no longer want to sell it (because they feel it is unethical to continue selling a form of creatine they know doesn't work), at a VERY cheap price in the hope of making a decent profit by selling it to uneducated consumers. Basically, these companies continue making the same claims that were made a decade ago, despite all research to the contrary, in the hopes some ignorant buyer will be fooled. Below I have attached a snippet from a PudMed document addressing the effectiveness of this form of creatine, along with the link if you want to look at the entire thing.

Creatine is a hydrophilic polar molecule that consists of a negatively charged carboxyl group and a positively charged functional group [64]. The hydrophilic nature of creatine limits its bioavailability [65]. In an attempt to increase creatines bioavailability creatine has been esterified to reduce the hydrophilicity; this product is known as creatine ethyl ester. Manufacturers of creatine ethyl ester promote their product as being able to by-pass the creatine transporter due to improved sarcolemmal permeability toward creatine [65]. Spillane et al [65] analyzed the effects of a 5 days loading protocol (0.30 g/kg lean mass) followed by a 42 days maintenance phase (0.075 g/kg lean mass) of CM or ethyl ester both combined with a resistance training program in 30 novice males with no previous resistance training experience. The results of this study [65] showed that ethyl ester was not as effective as CM to enhance serum and muscle creatine stores. Furthermore creatine ethyl ester offered no additional benefit for improving body composition, muscle mass, strength, and power. This research did not support the claims of the creatine ethyl ester manufacturers.

In other words, it did pretty much nothing that creatine is supposed to do. Namely, enhance strength and size.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3407788/

Well SHIT....I remember CEE being one of the most powerful creatines out there when I got it from TN back in 2006, almost immediate pumps and strength and size and weight gain, that's why I ordered it again. But it was an off brand -nutricost - but definitely the real deal (in taste anyway).
I am done with it now as for different reasons - mainly I have been getting terrible headaches, and BP and HR rise, as well as a weird side effect of dry mouth and increased thirst. I don't remember these sides taking it almost 10 years ago. The only side I had back then was it caused extreme spikes in energy and kept me up late. This will be easy to quit because this time I had no real gains to speak of. I have taken my blood pressure like crazy cause the headache last night and this morning was terrible, but I was 125/83.

I will get some Creapure from TN to replace it. Maybe I am just getting old, my body don't want to react like it did at 45 vs 35. :)
 

Stewie

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Well SHIT....I remember CEE being one of the most powerful creatines out there when I got it from TN back in 2006, almost immediate pumps and strength and size and weight gain, that's why I ordered it again. But it was an off brand -nutricost - but definitely the real deal (in taste anyway).
I am done with it now as for different reasons - mainly I have been getting terrible headaches, and BP and HR rise, as well as a weird side effect of dry mouth and increased thirst. I don't remember these sides taking it almost 10 years ago. The only side I had back then was it caused extreme spikes in energy and kept me up late. This will be easy to quit because this time I had no real gains to speak of. I have taken my blood pressure like crazy cause the headache last night and this morning was terrible, but I was 125/83.

I will get some Creapure from TN to replace it. Maybe I am just getting old, my body don't want to react like it did at 45 vs 35. :)
Lone atrial fibrillation associated with creatine monohydrate supplementation. - PubMed - NCBI
 

KalvinEddie

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I've had excellent results taking 5 grams with my post-training amino tabs since the aminos provide a nice insulin spike.

Same here. I always felt an extra pump while constantly on....before I found the magic of AAS. That "swole" always told me something good was at work.
 

SR-wendy

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Although creatine does have testosterone-like effects,it doesn't act as a steroid hormone.Instead,it's a mediator of some of the
androgens' anabolic effects
 

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