DESPERATE - Any Suggestions

xcelbeyond · Mar 6, 2003

OK guys (& gals) - I'm thoroughly BUMMED OUT. If there's one thing that I know, it's nutrition - but I'm failing MISERABLY at it!

If you've been following my posts, I've been trying to cut up, lose BF. I've done this MANY TIMES and can get down to 5% range "without losing any" muscle. It's getting below that where it's "tricky"

Now bear in mind, for the last month, I've been making sure my daily protein intake is 400 to 440 g; Carbs <100g (all but green veggies at 2 meals is taken post workout) and 94g Fat (mainly good stuff).

When I got my body comp checked, every pound that I lost during this period (5 pounds) has been LBM/muscle!!!!!

My friend that's helped me with nutrition wants we to try a cyclic routine as follows:
Day 1: 4000 cal 350g Protein 94g Fat 400g Carbs (except for post-cycle dextrose, all complex like yams and long-grain brown rice)
Day 2: 3500 cal 380g Protein 77g Fat 250g Carbs (same type as above)
Day 3: 3000 cal 410g Protein 60g Fat 150g Carbs (same as #1)
Day 4: 2500 cal 440g Protein 50g Fat 70g Carbs (30g post-cycle dextrose and remaining in green veggies)
Repeat

I believe he thinks I've gone TOO long without carbs. He believe that when he rechecks progress in ONE WEEK that I will probably gain 5 to 7 pounds of muscle back.

Any thoughts on this?!?!

xcel

Dave_19 · Mar 6, 2003

Im no expert on nutriotion, but you always try to help me when I ask queston so i can offer a suggestion.

I remeber on a previous post you listed the times you ate at, and you had a long peroid with no eating at all later in the day and during sleep.

If this is still accurate Maybe you can try added a couple fast AM meals during sleep, yes this is a hastle, a few guys I know who try this use up too 3 alarms to make things easier, 1 set for the first meal, 2nd is set for 2nd meal, and 3rd is set for the actually time you need to wake up depending on what you need to do that day. as long as your intaking only protien, water shakes are a good source of this, I dont see any conversion to fat, and since your sleeping I see a lot of utilization.

Its up to you if you would like to try this or not, this is by far one of the more strict dieting methods, I would only recommend those try who have the ability to fall asleep fast, and I know a lot of bodybuilding drugs can conflict with sleep, anyway if you decide to try this out let me know how it goes, and good luck..

xcelbeyond · Mar 6, 2003

I have a thing about eating late - I know it's really just an ol' wives tale

I'm gonna grab a bite then hit the sack - no problem for me. I get up at least 3x every nite to pee and am back asleep before my head hits the pillow!

xcel

NubianBeauty · Mar 6, 2003

xcel--- I think what your friend has designed for you just may work. I'm going to start something similar myself. I think my body has become accustomed to allll the Protein.... now I'm @ a stand still so I have decided to drop the Protein and increase my carbs and fats. I'm going to try cycling my Protein like I do my carbs for the next 30 days to see what happens. Let me know how your progress goes.

BIGKIWI · Mar 6, 2003

Xcel it sounds like you are just carb depleted, I eat carbs every meal even if just few need to get put energy, glycogen going round my body. Yep I would say eat some carbs like your mate says you prob will fill yourself back up.

raybravo · Mar 6, 2003

xcel , get on a higher dose of tren , thats like over 100 mg ed , and replace ur carbs with MCT oils as much as possible , theoritically , should work . and with that kind of higher dose of tren , u can lower ur cals to a very low level and still not lose muscle .

Queefer · Mar 6, 2003

Well unless you are using underwater bf testing, you can't be sure that you lost that much muscle. I would tend to doubt that you did. It does sound like you are carb depleted. Good luck and thanks for letting me share.

xcelbeyond · Mar 6, 2003

Queefer said:
Well unless you are using underwater bf testing, you can't be sure that you lost that much muscle.

The person that I'm working with has done "this" ultrasound method for MANY years. I've been wotking with him for 13 years and he started many years prior to that. He checks the "same" spots on the body. This machine can measure the "thickness" of skin, fat or muscle. It is a calbrated, medical, apparatus. It's an EXTREMELY consistent method. Plus - as an added "check" I've been measuring my waist, right over the belly button. The tape measure corresponds with his tesing.

He has also validated his program with water-weighing.

Like I said: at this point in my program I should be losing BF not muscle and I've done this many times before but suddenly "hit-the-wall." To put things in perspective, in ~6 weeks I went from 9% BF to 6% BF with relative ease. In the last 4 weeks I went from 9% BF (I didn't really want it to get this high and there's nobody to blame but me - but I was following "someone else's" nutritional program) to 8% but the "kicker" being I lost too much muscle.

xcel

xcelbeyond · Mar 6, 2003

Thanks for the response everyone!!!

Here's the frustrating part:

Before I started out ( a long ways out from contest ) I was 6% BF

I'm at 8% BF now and my arms and legs are just as cut, in fact they're "more" vascular now. BUT - I've been putting all this fat around mt obliques and lower back (still have a six-pack) - WTF!!!!!!!!!

On top of that I'm "smaller." I know - it part of the mind games from pre-contest prep. BUT - I've never had this happen before.

xcel

vitor · Mar 6, 2003

Hmmm

I know you are a diet guru, or know your stuff, but I think something you might be overlooking is stress, and over training perhaps. I dont know what cycle you are running but it is extremely hard to tap into the 4-5-6% bf range with out losing a tad of muscle. I think the staggering approach sounds good.

One day have a good amount of carbs and protein, but lower Base cals by a few hundred, then the next day mostly carbs and fat but eat at your base cal level.

Is anything else going on, more work, girlfriend problems, wife problems, kids, changes in weather getting sick etc, I think your diet looks good, it is thursday why dont u keep eating the way you are but dont train again till monday.

Mr_Magoo · Mar 6, 2003

xcelbeyond said:
OK guys (& gals) - I'm thoroughly BUMMED OUT. If there's one thing that I know, it's nutrition - but I'm failing MISERABLY at it!

If you've been following my posts, I've been trying to cut up, lose BF. I've done this MANY TIMES and can get down to 5% range "without losing any" muscle. It's getting below that where it's "tricky"

Now bear in mind, for the last month, I've been making sure my daily protein intake is 400 to 440 g; Carbs <100g (all but green veggies at 2 meals is taken post workout) and 94g Fat (mainly good stuff).

When I got my body comp checked, every pound that I lost during this period (5 pounds) has been LBM/muscle!!!!!

My friend that's helped me with nutrition wants we to try a cyclic routine as follows:
Day 1: 4000 cal 350g Protein 94g Fat 400g Carbs (except for post-cycle dextrose, all complex like yams and long-grain brown rice)
Day 2: 3500 cal 380g Protein 77g Fat 250g Carbs (same type as above)
Day 3: 3000 cal 410g Protein 60g Fat 150g Carbs (same as #1)
Day 4: 2500 cal 440g Protein 50g Fat 70g Carbs (30g post-cycle dextrose and remaining in green veggies)
Repeat

I believe he thinks I've gone TOO long without carbs. He believe that when he rechecks progress in ONE WEEK that I will probably gain 5 to 7 pounds of muscle back.

Any thoughts on this?!?!

xcel

what youll gain back is water weight

xcelbeyond · Mar 6, 2003

Re: Hmmm

vitor said:
I dont know what cycle you are running but it is extremely hard to tap into the 4-5-6% bf range with out losing a tad of muscle.

thnx vitor. Like I stated above, I recently went down to 6.05% BF without losing much muscle to speak of. But as you've stating, getting below that is the tricky part

I "really" believe that I'm not overtraining. Woking w/weights 2 days then day of cardio & abs. On weight day, it's an "intense" workout anywhere from 30 to 45 minutes - depending on body parts worked. Cadio day is ~20 minutes ab work then 40 minutes "low intensity" on stepper.

I've been under somewhat of a stress but know how to keep in check. This BF has me more stressed than anything

xcel

bigheinz · Mar 6, 2003

Protein and carbs are ok but is to much fat to this type of diet, you are eating to much carbs with this high fat diet and i think the same of Bigkiwi you are depleted and this diet will help you to get pump again but low the fat to 33 to 40 gr.

and remember.....
......There is no space for the littles!!!!!
Bigheinz

xcelbeyond · Mar 6, 2003

Re: Re: DESPERATE - Any Suggestions

Mr_Magoo said:
what youll gain back is water weight

I can live with that and realize so.

What I can't live with is the fact I can't lose BF. only muscle. I "expect to lose water during the "last" week, not now.

xcel

bigarms · Mar 6, 2003

Looking at your diet you are at a 4:1:1 ratio. Which is to high in fats for me personally. I would have to agree with bigheinz and BIGKIWI and lower fat ratio and up the carbs. Which is more inline with your friends diet ratio. The good thing is you know that the current diet is not working for you at this BF%. Be sure a document any changes made and you will have the answer for the next cycle.

boing · Mar 6, 2003

Xcel,

If I do my math, current calorie intake is 3000 give or take, of which 1/3 comes from fats.

I would venture to recommend that you stay around 3000 cals, although I am a fan of varying that by 1000 plus or minus, but try to up the carbs to 200g to 225g and drop the fats to 50-60g a day.

Try to spread the carbs out more evenly during the day so that the body has something to work against.

I am assuming that this diet has worked for in the past, are you doing anything different this time?? or has the body just rebelled against the low carbs

Boing "the English_Bulldog"

xcelbeyond · Mar 6, 2003

boing said:
I am assuming that this diet has worked for in the past, are you doing anything different this time?? or has the body just rebelled against the low carbs

If anything, I haven't gone this low (for as long as I have) at low carb/"higher" fat. Have always tried to limit overall fat before this.

xcel

JETHRO TULL · Mar 6, 2003

Excel....I am no expert but.....

Here goes.........I wouldn't eat that much fat. I realize there is more than one way to skin a cat. But....that is an assload of fat that you are taking in.....from my point of view anyway. The other day my breakdown went 396grams protien, 117carbs, 15 grams fat. I walk on treadmill before first meal 45min on empty stomache.....weights afternoon, cardio after last meal. [treadmill again] Two days on followed by one complete day of rest. ..... when I diet....for me it sucks. I hate it. I'll be honest with you and I mean no disrespect because I do think you look good] but, when I see people post those single digit bodyfat % and I see pics...I am skeptical.

Don't give up, Excel!!

crackerjack414 · Mar 6, 2003

excell bro I know exzactly what u are going through your body is rebeling and refusing to get any leaner. i had this same problem at 7% during the summer. my body wouldnt respond to anything I did. Basicaly after I bulked again my body started to respond again. I would do a short bulk cycle and the fat will come off much easier after that Atleast it did for me.

mike man · Mar 6, 2003

excel

What about replacing your fat with CLA. I've done this on my diet this time around and I have lost an amazing amount of skin thickness. I'm still maitaining very good vascularity but I do notice my energy levels aren't as high during my wokrouts.
My weight initially dropped by about 5lbs after the first week due to such a low carb intake (160g per day from veggies), but my total calories are still around 4000 per day. This is dieting for me. Mostly just drop my carb intake and the fat starts dropping.
My CLA intake is 30g day and my protien is about 510g. There are additional fats from the fish and lean ground beef to make up for the other cals.
If you are going to try that low of a carb diet, I would suggest adding the CLA to it. This is my first time doing it and I'm am extremely pleased with the reults so far.
Also, a small cheat meal or two in the same day a week always keeps me sane and it seems to kick the metabolism up for me again.