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Dietary fat intake, types of slin

qbkilla

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I know conventional knowledge is to avoid fat during the slin window, but I have read some vets on other boards who are dialed in comment the they had their best results (strength and size) when not avoiding fat during the slin window, this has been for long acting and short. I know many people say this is a no no, but they said that adding some fat gave them superior results than avoiding it

Has anyone has this same experience? Has anyone actually noticed that eating fat during the window did lead to additional fat gain?
 

danieltx

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Most guys are using insulin pre and / or postworkout, and even without insulin it doesn't make sense to consume much fat there. You don't want to slow digestion before training and have stuff still sitting in your stomach, nor do you want to slow it after when you're trying to reglycogenate the muscles.

Outside of pre / postworkout, it hasn't mattered for me. Fats are an essential nutrient and you won't grow at an optimal rate without them. My last meal of the day has tons of carbs but also plenty of fats, like 4-5 tablespoons sunflower butter plus plenty from incidentals, and I use insulin with that meal every day.

Most guys get fat with insulin because they don't control their diet and decide to use X amount of insulin and adjust their diet to that, which is the wrong approach. Do the diet that gives you your best progress with a rate of lean-to-fat gains you're comfortable with and use insulin as a supplement to ensure your body makes the most of those nutrients.

I'm not sure what you think you'll accomplish by using insulin. You've said multiple times you don't want to be big and that's what insulin is truly about - helping you efficiently handle more food than you normally could to pack on size. You're not going to bring up weak body parts the way you envision by using insulin with an extra 300-500 calories the day you train them and eating as you normally do the rest of week. You'll probably get a better pump and extra fullness but next time you diet down they'll likely be about the same as they were before.

Finally, anyone using insulin should be very lean when they start. Throwing it in when you're 12% body fat is not going to get you the results you want and likely will lead to excess fat gain.
 

SouthernMuscle

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I would suggest thinking about it like this- many people are insulin dependent and must have insulin coverage for everything they eat. I cannot conceive of many people in the general public being on a fat free diet. So if fat intake during the time insulin is active made them gain fat, then every person who is insulin dependent would be obese.
 

Ruhlfreak55

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Finally, anyone using insulin should be very lean when they start. Throwing it in when you're 12% body fat is not going to get you the results you want and likely will lead to excess fat gain.
Wondering what the thought behind this is, mostly as I don't stay near that fat wise and was about to start some slin. Body simply doesn't stay that lean without being in contest prep.
 

mpjuice

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I'm under the camp that if a person can't see their abs their really not bodybuilding they are fat. There's no reason to get in excess of 15%,

I find when body fats raise that high it's harder to put on muscle and it can get confusing if you're putting on muscle or fat (which can make it easier to put on additional fat especially when on slin). Side effects of drugs also go up. Insulin is a storage hormone that is non-selective the more fat you have the more opportunity the insulin has to push nutrients that way.

If you look at bodybuilders/people that maintain good bodies later in life (into their 50-60) and maintain longer lives; they are the same guys that stay pretty lean year around. I'm also of the opinion that overeating is the most dangerous part of bodybuilding more so than the drugs.

Why make it worse by bulking/getting fat when it only makes you farther from your ultimate goal being big and shredded. Why bulk up so much just to have to cut down so much that you end up losing much of that extra muscle that you bulked up. Sure we have to bulk and cut in phases. But more is not always better. Crash dieting/ yo-yo dieting won't lead to the best results in the quickest time.
 

danieltx

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Wondering what the thought behind this is, mostly as I don't stay near that fat wise and was about to start some slin. Body simply doesn't stay that lean without being in contest prep.
The leaner you are, the more likely excess calories are to be stored as muscle instead of fat. Insulin sensitivity is usually very good when very lean.

Think about when you rebound from a show - initial gains are all muscle then shift to having more fat as months go by.

If you throw insulin in when your body's already shifted to adding roughly equal amounts of muscle and fat, you're risking more fat gain since insulin sensitivity won't be as good and you've already passed the prime growing phase.
 

Ruhlfreak55

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The leaner you are, the more likely excess calories are to be stored as muscle instead of fat. Insulin sensitivity is usually very good when very lean.

Think about when you rebound from a show - initial gains are all muscle then shift to having more fat as months go by.

If you throw insulin in when your body's already shifted to adding roughly equal amounts of muscle and fat, you're risking more fat gain since insulin sensitivity won't be as good and you've already passed the prime growing phase.
I follow that, but also tested my insulin resistance (or lack thereof) and it seems to be very very low. BS of 96 1 hour post meal.
 

Ruhlfreak55

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I'm under the camp that if a person can't see their abs their really not bodybuilding they are fat. There's no reason to get in excess of 15%,

I find when body fats raise that high it's harder to put on muscle and it can get confusing if you're putting on muscle or fat (which can make it easier to put on additional fat especially when on slin). Side effects of drugs also go up. Insulin is a storage hormone that is non-selective the more fat you have the more opportunity the insulin has to push nutrients that way.

If you look at bodybuilders/people that maintain good bodies later in life (into their 50-60) and maintain longer lives; they are the same guys that stay pretty lean year around. I'm also of the opinion that overeating is the most dangerous part of bodybuilding more so than the drugs.

Why make it worse by bulking/getting fat when it only makes you farther from your ultimate goal being big and shredded. Why bulk up so much just to have to cut down so much that you end up losing much of that extra muscle that you bulked up. Sure we have to bulk and cut in phases. But more is not always better. Crash dieting/ yo-yo dieting won't lead to the best results in the quickest time.
I'll be calling bullshit on that. You don't even see my abs until less than 10 (DEXA scan confirmed)
 

11111

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I'll be calling bullshit on that. You don't even see my abs until less than 10 (DEXA scan confirmed)
everyone has different fat storage patterns. i agree with what he said about 15% and still having visible abs. I've also known people like you who can't see their abs until they get down closer to the single digits...
 

mpjuice

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I'll be calling bullshit on that. You don't even see my abs until less than 10 (DEXA scan confirmed)
Lol what part are you "calling bullshit on"? It seems like others are echoing my general statement.

Sure I understand my first statement might be controversial. I will agree many bodybuilders bulk, and many of them are great (much better than I can be; lee priest as an example, but when Lee was younger we don't ever see him bulked up and he turned pro when he was 21 and really didn't make much progress from there).

I too have bulked in the past and thought that is the way it's has to be done. However, when I cut down it was disappointing to see that as much as I thought the mass I gained was mostly muscle when in reality the majority was fat and I did plateau, hence why I change my approach.
 

liquid_c

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Dave Palumbo apologized and said he is responsible for the "don't eat fat" in the insulin window. He came to discover that the body doesn't use insulin to store fat as fat so it doesn't really matter.
 

mpjuice

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In regards to 15% that's really the upper limit; you should stay closer/below 12% while trying to grow.

I'm not big on Dexa scans (why bother when you have the mirror and cameras)

It more common for people to underestimate their body fat, they think they're lower body fat than they actually are or that they're holding more water than they actually are.
 

qbkilla

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Dave Palumbo apologized and said he is responsible for the "don't eat fat" in the insulin window. He came to discover that the body doesn't use insulin to store fat as fat so it doesn't really matter.
Interesting, I know he has talked alot about insulin usage. Did you have a link?

Could it be possible that the reason some report better results with more fat, the skin shuttles the fat into the muscles where it is stored?
 

danieltx

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Interesting, I know he has talked alot about insulin usage. Did you have a link?

Could it be possible that the reason some report better results with more fat, the skin shuttles the fat into the muscles where it is stored?
I laid it all out for you in my first post. Quit overthinking this.

People grow better on insulin with fats because fats are an essential nutrient our bodies can't produce on their own. Insulin helps the body use everything better, fats included. Insulin + caloric surplus of protein / carbs / fats = optimal growth.
 

StevenGFH

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I am type 1 diabetic. I have seen with at least myself, that when I increase dietary fats, I do gain fat MUCH easier. For me to get stage ready and lean, it is a very low fat approach.

I wear an insulin pump and have humalog pumping through me 24/7
 

b-boy

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Most guys are using insulin pre and / or postworkout, and even without insulin it doesn't make sense to consume much fat there. You don't want to slow digestion before training and have stuff still sitting in your stomach, nor do you want to slow it after when you're trying to reglycogenate the muscles.

Outside of pre / postworkout, it hasn't mattered for me. Fats are an essential nutrient and you won't grow at an optimal rate without them. My last meal of the day has tons of carbs but also plenty of fats, like 4-5 tablespoons sunflower butter plus plenty from incidentals, and I use insulin with that meal every day.

Most guys get fat with insulin because they don't control their diet and decide to use X amount of insulin and adjust their diet to that, which is the wrong approach. Do the diet that gives you your best progress with a rate of lean-to-fat gains you're comfortable with and use insulin as a supplement to ensure your body makes the most of those nutrients.

I'm not sure what you think you'll accomplish by using insulin. You've said multiple times you don't want to be big and that's what insulin is truly about - helping you efficiently handle more food than you normally could to pack on size. You're not going to bring up weak body parts the way you envision by using insulin with an extra 300-500 calories the day you train them and eating as you normally do the rest of week. You'll probably get a better pump and extra fullness but next time you diet down they'll likely be about the same as they were before.

Finally, anyone using insulin should be very lean when they start. Throwing it in when you're 12% body fat is not going to get you the results you want and likely will lead to excess fat gain.
👏 👏 👏 👏 👏
 

mpjuice

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I am type 1 diabetic. I have seen with at least myself, that when I increase dietary fats, I do gain fat MUCH easier. For me to get stage ready and lean, it is a very low fat approach.

I wear an insulin pump and have humalog pumping through me 24/7
I mean no disrespect at all. However, being a type 1 diabetic, how can you compare fat gain on insulin and without insulin (especially when you have an automatic pump)?

Did you lower your carbs/non-fat base calories in relation to how much you raise your fat intake or did you simply just increase your fat intake?

Speaking for myself, when I increase fats yes I can get fatter easier but it's reasonable to assume because my overall calorie consumption rose.
Simply because, fats are much more calorie dense.
Sure there's a thermogenic effect of consuming certain foods fat generally turns into atipose easier than complex carbs will, sugars more so than carbs and fats as well.
 

madg

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Welcome to Danieltx seminar on proper insulin usage in bodybuilding

Grab a seat !!

FUCKING PREACH BROTHER !! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
 

SouthernMuscle

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Just had 10oz ground turkey and an avocado while my insulin was active. Every time i took a bite i could feel more and more fat being added straight to my now humongous belly 😢
 

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