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Effects of methandienone on the performance and body composition of men undergoing at

BigNJ

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Effects of methandienone on the performance and body composition of men undergoing athletic training.
Hervey GR, Knibbs AV, Burkinshaw L, Morgan DB, Jones PR, Chettle DR, Vartsky D.
Abstract

1. In a previous study of the effects of methandienone (Dianabol) on men undergoing athletic training, strength and performance increased, but not significantly more when the subjects were taking the drug than when they were taking placebo. The subjects did, however, gain more weight on the drug, with increases in total body potassium and muscle dimensions. It remained an open question whether the muscles had gained normal tissue or intracellular fluid. 2. In an attempt to distinguish between these possibilities the trial has been repeated, using as subjects seven male weight-lifters in regular training, and including measurements of total body nitrogen. As before, a dose of 100 mg of methandienone/day was given alternately with the placebo in a double-blind crossover experiment. The treatment periods lasted 6 weeks and were separated by an interval of 6 weeks. Body weight, potassium and nitrogen, muscle size, and leg performance and strength increased significantly during training on the drug, but not during the placebo period. 3. The finding of increased body nitrogen suggested that the weight gain was not only intracellular fluid. The increases in body potassium (436 +/- SEM 41 mmol) and nitrogen (255 +/- 69 g) were too large in proportion to the weight gain (2.3 +/- 0.4 kg) for this to be attributed to gain of normal muscle or other lean tissue, and imply gain of nitrogen-rich, phosphate-poor substance. Although this action of methandienone might be described as anabolic, the weight gain produced is not normal muscle.

PMID:
7018798
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

============================================

What the fuck does the statement in bold mean? Not normal muscle.
 
i'd want to know what "nitrogen-rich, phosphate-poor substance" is, lol.
nitrogen-rich = muscle
but muscle works via ATP (adenosine tri phosphate). how the hell can muscle be phosphate poor then?

also weird that they only gained 2.3 kg over 6 weeks on 100mg dbol...
 
(I think) if phosphates were higher, body potassium would be lower (?). So, because body potassium is higher they know the substance is "phosphate poor" and not muscle.

As you said, phosphate poor wouldn't be muscle, I guess. So it seems they've described what Ddol bloat is made of. LOL. We know that all the weight gained from Dbol isn't entirely muscle, so, no surprise I guess.

Does make wonder if increasing phosphates would lessen bloat though...hmm.
Then again, I could be on crack with that one. haha
 
"The increases in ... nitrogen (255 +/- 69 g) were too large in proportion to the weight gain (2.3 +/- 0.4 kg) for this to be attributed to gain of normal muscle or other lean tissue,"

Body protein is about 16% nitrogen and muscle is about 20% protein by weight.

Assuming all the nitrogen were muscle (contractile mostly) protein, we'd have:

255g N --> 1594g protein.

1594 grams muscle protein --> 7669g muscle ("wet weight")

----

The weight gain was only 2300g, so (WITHOUT having read the paper - couldn't get it) I'd guess they're presuming minimal fat gain.

This would mean that (using the above) nitrogen is being stored elsewhere and not as "normal" muscle with a normal protein (and nitrogen) concentration...

-S
 
Effects of methandienone on the performance and body composition of men undergoing athletic training.
Hervey GR, Knibbs AV, Burkinshaw L, Morgan DB, Jones PR, Chettle DR, Vartsky D.
Abstract

1. In a previous study of the effects of methandienone (Dianabol) on men undergoing athletic training, strength and performance increased, but not significantly more when the subjects were taking the drug than when they were taking placebo. The subjects did, however, gain more weight on the drug, with increases in total body potassium and muscle dimensions. It remained an open question whether the muscles had gained normal tissue or intracellular fluid. 2. In an attempt to distinguish between these possibilities the trial has been repeated, using as subjects seven male weight-lifters in regular training, and including measurements of total body nitrogen. As before, a dose of 100 mg of methandienone/day was given alternately with the placebo in a double-blind crossover experiment. The treatment periods lasted 6 weeks and were separated by an interval of 6 weeks. Body weight, potassium and nitrogen, muscle size, and leg performance and strength increased significantly during training on the drug, but not during the placebo period. 3. The finding of increased body nitrogen suggested that the weight gain was not only intracellular fluid. The increases in body potassium (436 +/- SEM 41 mmol) and nitrogen (255 +/- 69 g) were too large in proportion to the weight gain (2.3 +/- 0.4 kg) for this to be attributed to gain of normal muscle or other lean tissue, and imply gain of nitrogen-rich, phosphate-poor substance. Although this action of methandienone might be described as anabolic, the weight gain produced is not normal muscle.

PMID:
7018798
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

============================================

What the fuck does the statement in bold mean? Not normal muscle.

A few questions/observations:

This study is from 1981 and is a follow up on another study the author did in 1976. I'm sure our understanding has changed since then.

100mg/day, are you fucking kidding me? I'd look like a balloon, my bp would be 300/200, I'd have no hair, and I'd be bleeding out of my eyes, ears, and nose.

I wonder if they knew the degree of liver toxicity, and if so, how they convinced an ethics board to allow them to administer dbol to patients for 6 weeks? Or, do we currently exaggerate the harm dbol causes?

If the weight gain wasn't muscle and wasn't all intracellular fluid, then what was it?
 
A few questions/observations:

This study is from 1981 and is a follow up on another study the author did in 1976. I'm sure our understanding has changed since then.

100mg/day, are you fucking kidding me? I'd look like a balloon, my bp would be 300/200, I'd have no hair, and I'd be bleeding out of my eyes, ears, and nose.

I wonder if they knew the degree of liver toxicity, and if so, how they convinced an ethics board to allow them to administer dbol to patients for 6 weeks? Or, do we currently exaggerate the harm dbol causes?

If the weight gain wasn't muscle and wasn't all intracellular fluid, then what was it?

100mg dbol is a pretty common higher dose nowadays. 6-8 weeks is standard.
since this was medically supervised, i dont see why they wouldnt "risk" it. liver damage from orals is way overstated unless youre a drunkard.
 
100mg dbol is a pretty common higher dose nowadays. 6-8 weeks is standard.
since this was medically supervised, i dont see why they wouldnt "risk" it. liver damage from orals is way overstated unless youre a drunkard.
You're making a lot of presumptions and blanket statements. I wouldn't call 100mg dbol a standard high dose. 60 to 70 maybe...
Orals can cause problems without being a "drunkard".
Tell yourself what you need to though...
 
You're making a lot of presumptions and blanket statements. I wouldn't call 100mg dbol a standard high dose. 60 to 70 maybe...
Orals can cause problems without being a "drunkard".
Tell yourself what you need to though...

theres plenty of people running 100mg dbol or even 150mg dbol a day...
not advocating that. i dont even like dbol.

liver damage is overstated imo. nobody with a healthy liver to begin with would run into problems with 100mg dbol for 6 weeks.
 
I gotta agree with jizzmo on this one. I ran 75mg dbol for 6 weeks and saw only very mild enzyme elevations on my LFTs. I drank zero alcohol and took milk thistle and nac and bam...less liver damage than I would have seen had I booze binged two weekends.
 
Who is to say some of this dbol being ran at 75-100 mgs/day was not severely under dosed? Maybe a true dose of 100mgs/day would have much more of a negative affect on the liver.
 
Who is to say some of this dbol being ran at 75-100 mgs/day was not severely under dosed? Maybe a true dose of 100mgs/day would have much more of a negative affect on the liver.

Medical study was just done on 100 and liver issues were not there. So not underdosed and still no liver issues
 
Youre thinking a medical study used pharmaceutical drugs and had them underdosed and not tested?

Sorry, I was thinking about guys getting UGL stuff talking about no liver issues or sides.
 

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