• All new members please introduce your self here and welcome to the board:
    http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
M4B Store Banner
intex
Riptropin Store banner
Generation X Bodybuilding Forum
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Mysupps Store Banner
IP Gear Store Banner
PM-Ace-Labs
Ganabol Store Banner
Spend $100 and get bonus needles free at sterile syringes
Professional Muscle Store open now
sunrise2
PHARMAHGH1
kinglab
ganabol2
Professional Muscle Store open now
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
boslabs1
granabolic1
napsgear-210x65
monster210x65
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
DeFiant
UGFREAK-banner-PM
STADAPM
yms-GIF-210x65-SB
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
wuhan2
dpharma
marathon
zzsttmy
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
azteca
crewguru
advertise1x
advertise1x
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store

Elevated red cell count

thebrick

FOUNDING Member / Featured member / Kilo Klub
Featured Member
Kilo Klub Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2002
Messages
5,048
I have been on doc prescribed HRT for several years now and just got back from my last physical. My blood red cell count and hemocrit were a little elevated. Doc said it was most likely from the HRT but they would watch it as they don't want the blood to get too thick. I was planning to due a little extra HRT of my own for the summer ;) Since this will raise the red count even more, I believe, how long after I come off does it take before the red count will come back down?

On a different subject for those you wonder about jucing and your heart, my heart ultrasound came back completely normal and I was a heavy user for MANY years
 
Steroid Induced polycythemia is common in juicers. Once it goes over 50% it gets dangerous-stresses the kidneys and heart with thickened blood.
Androgens stimulate the kidneys to produce Erythropoietin which in turn stimulates the bone marrow to make RBC's. There is no negative feedback mechanism. I know a lot of bb'ers that cycle year round that have thick blood. RBC's live for four months so you can see how the situation can become complicated after many cycles. To reduce the count you either have to undergo phlebotomy's (remove a pint of blood) or simply stay off for several months and the RBC's will die off and return to normal levels.
The simple answer is to give blood every 54 days, it usually reduces the hematocrit by 2-3% over all. Avoid the heavy RBC stimulators like 'Drol, Deca, EQ. But as you have found out even HRT will raise it and is mentioned as a risk in the treatment of hypogonadism with HRT for the docs.
Giving blood even in non juicer's is a healthy thing to do it removes old RBC's and bound iron which some people believe contributes to heart attacks/disease.
 
I wrote this on here:
Benefits of Giving Blood.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It has been shown that giving blood every 3 months helps to clense the body. Gets rid of bound iron and some old red cells.
RBC's live for 4 months after they are produced.
I give blood once every 54 days religously unless I am on which I haven't been for over a year now. But recently discovered at the Red Cross that won't be a problem because I can privately identify that my blood shouldn't be used after donation after my last red cross visit. They had an anonymous option on a form, a sticker that can't be traced back to your or your blood.
This is done in private on a form that allows one to let them know your blood may be no good for use. That sticker has a code on it that when they scan the code it says "use" or "discard" You are left in private to do this so no one knows what option you chose.
This was done because many blood drives ar at work and people feel obligated to donate cause they think of department or company morale and etc.
So if you don't want your blood used they will dump it later on going by the sticker and ETC.
So when I return to the hormones for anti-aging or bb'ing I will continue to donate.

"Evidence suggests that giving blood has health benefits


(WebMD) -- At a time when blood banks report dangerously low supplies, the best argument for rolling up your sleeve is still to do someone else some good. But if University of Florida researcher Jerome Sullivan, M.D., is right -- and there's new evidence to suggest he is -- giving blood could also save your life.

Here's why. Each time you give blood, you remove some of the iron it contains. High blood iron levels, Sullivan believes, can increase the risk of heart disease. Iron has been shown to speed the oxidation of cholesterol, a process thought to increase the damage to arteries that ultimately leads to cardiovascular disease.

Sullivan has long suspected that blood iron levels help explain why a man's risk of heart disease begins earlier than a woman's. Women lose blood -- and lower their iron levels -- each time they menstruate. Men, on the other hand, begin storing iron in body tissues starting in their twenties, which is just about the time their heart attack danger begins to climb.

According to Victor Herbert, M.D., a hematologist at the Mt. Sinai School of Medicine in New York City, there are normally about 1,000 milligrams of iron "stored" in the average adult man's body but only about 300 milligrams in a premenopausal woman's. Once women stop menstruating, however, their iron levels -- and their heart disease risk -- begin to climb, eventually matching that of men.

Not everyone's convinced by Sullivan's notion. "I do not believe there is proof of an association between iron level and the risk of heart disease in men with normal iron metabolism," says Peter Tomasulo, M.D., a director at the International Federation of Red Cross Societies. "The data is preliminary at best." Most scientists, in fact, still think estrogen is probably the most important reason why women are protected from heart disease until they reach menopause.

But several recent findings lend support to the possibility that iron levels play a role. In research reported last year in the journal Circulation, Swedish scientists found that men with a genetic abnormality that causes slightly elevated blood iron levels had a 2.3-fold increase in heart attack risk. A second study published in the same journal found that women with the abnormal gene were also at greater risk of cardiovascular disease. Together, Sullivan believes, those studies offer new support for his iron hypothesis.

Proof won't come until researchers conduct large and well-controlled studies that compare the heart disease risk of men who regularly give blood with that of men who don't. Already several small studies have been done, however, offering tantalizing evidence that donating blood might be a very good idea.

Take, for example, a study of 2,682 men in Finland reported in the September 1998 issue of the American Journal of Epidemiology. Men who donated blood at least once a year had an 88 percent lower risk of heart attacks than nondonors. Another study published in the August 1997 issue of Heart found that men who donated blood were less likely than nondonors to show signs of cardiovascular disease.

Critics are quick to point out that people who donate blood may simply be healthier to start with. Yet a 1995 study published in the Journal of Internal Medicine found that the use of bleeding to lower iron levels in a group of 14 patients did reduce cholesterol oxidation. It's another small piece of evidence in support of the benefits of donating blood. By now, Sullivan insists, "there is abundant evidence that favors a public health recommendation to lower iron stores." What's more, he says, there is no risk to a healthy person donating blood, and potentially significant benefit.

Blood banks, for their part, have been a bit squeamish about any motivation for donations other than altruism, even though there's a dire shortage in the blood supply. Self-interest has tainted the blood supply before: Thirty years ago when blood banks paid for blood, some donors would lie about their medical histories so they'd get the money. "People who had a self-interest in donating blood were more likely to have hepatitis and other diseases," Sullivan says.

Today, however, blood is carefully screened for all known blood-borne diseases. And while many doctors aren't yet convinced by Sullivan's iron hypothesis, they all agree on the wisdom and compassion of giving blood. "With all the precautions blood banks take," says Herbert. "There is virtually no risk to donating blood."

This is something I think more BB'ers should do-especially those that juice and choose that "Don't use" option as androgenic and anabolic AAS raise hematocrit (RBC mass) leading to a thicker blood with a higher iron content.
As the pathway is androgens stimulate the kidneys to produce EPO, which in turn stimulates the Bone marrow to produce RBC's and there isn't a set point or negative feedback mechanism to shut it down. Drugs like Test Deca Drol etc will do this quite well. Also new RBC's will live for 4 months so even when guys come off they still have the residual mass from the last cycle and will build more on the next sometimes compounding the problem quite heavily.
This is generally referred to as Steroid Induced Polycythemia.

Anyhoo give blood when you can it can help keep you healthier in the long term and tha's what we all are after.
 
Massive, that is terrific info! thank you! Giving blood is what I will do. Helping others and myself. Sounds like a win, win situation. Everyone here should consider your suggestion.
 
Good suggestion, only problem is that for me I can inject but to take blood from me I am petrofied. I hate doing blood tests but it is a great solution and like said previously your helping yourself and others so.
 
Massive G said:
This is something I think more BB'ers should do-especially those that juice and choose that "Don't use" option as androgenic and anabolic AAS raise hematocrit (RBC mass) leading to a thicker blood with a higher iron content.

Question: wont thick blood still be useful, esp for anemic people?

Also, Ive given blood before, and I cant recall a sticker. I was told that if they find something in my blood, then theyll just throw it out. Do you just go to the Red Cross and request to be anonymous?
 
Massive G said:
Steroid Induced polycythemia is common in juicers. Once it goes over 50% it gets dangerous-stresses the kidneys and heart with thickened blood.
Androgens stimulate the kidneys to produce Erythropoietin which in turn stimulates the bone marrow to make RBC's. There is no negative feedback mechanism. I know a lot of bb'ers that cycle year round that have thick blood. RBC's live for four months so you can see how the situation can become complicated after many cycles. To reduce the count you either have to undergo phlebotomy's (remove a pint of blood) or simply stay off for several months and the RBC's will die off and return to normal levels.
The simple answer is to give blood every 54 days, it usually reduces the hematocrit by 2-3% over all. Avoid the heavy RBC stimulators like 'Drol, Deca, EQ. But as you have found out even HRT will raise it and is mentioned as a risk in the treatment of hypogonadism with HRT for the docs.
Giving blood even in non juicer's is a healthy thing to do it removes old RBC's and bound iron which some people believe contributes to heart attacks/disease.

Massive G,i'm impressed,very sound advice,i could not said it better...guy's listen to this man,he knows what he is talking about!
 
Sesshomaru said:
Question: wont thick blood still be useful, esp for anemic people?

Also, Ive given blood before, and I cant recall a sticker. I was told that if they find something in my blood, then theyll just throw it out. Do you just go to the Red Cross and request to be anonymous?
Well I wrote that post from a post a year ago-I too have not recently -for a while-receiving blood use or not use sticker options.
the reason I wrote that was someone ( a female) was in the thread flaming me for giving advice-that people that are on steroids shouldn't give blood as they will be passed on blah blah blah-so I kinda mentioned that in the thread as an option to cool the flames and give an option.

I have talked to 2 endocrinologists and they said the amounts are very minuscule if any.

If you truthfully answer that you have used non prescribed drugs AAS they won't let you donate.

If they do find something very wrong with your blood-they have the option of not allowing you to donate-like really high liver enzymes and some other stuff the tech told me about.
Basically your levels would have to be pretty fooked up for them to disqualify you and most people on here on cycles aren't gonna fall into that category as we are younger and healthy.

Thanks for bumping the thread more people should do this as it helps remove old RBC's bound iron etc-basically like a cleanse even for normal people. I do it year round. on or off.
 
if the RBC count is attirbuted to juice then thats that. My boss' wife had a bad gall bladder and her blood had to be drained because they couldn't figure it out(high RBC count). They spent two yrs working on her and then took the bladder cause it was all they hadn't messed with and it fixed it in two weeks. Impressive medicine, huh? I think a dose of juice would help most people getting blood. We should donate more.
 
giving blood is a win-win like posted above, the other thing to do is make sure you're getting lots of cardio in, this will put those RBC's to work delivering O2 to your muscles
 
Thanks for the clarification Xcel. Just figured Id bump old threads while researching instead of starting new ones.
 
Kahn said:
I think a dose of juice would help most people getting blood. We should donate more.


I'd love to see the look on ol' Grandma's face when her biceps peak like a damn mountain from the blood we gave her. :D


Poor ol' Granpa's in for it when her sex drive goes through the roof from all the test she's "on". :p
 
The simple answer is to give blood every 54 days, it usually reduces the hematocrit by 2-3% over all..

You can give more frequently by choosing 2-3 donation centers if needed to initially reduce a high hematocrit level, then maintain it with monthly donations. It takes effort but it's your health and you can monitor your bloodwork via directlabs no dr order and keep an eye on things. www.directlabs.com or get it treated by a hematologist for steroid induced polycythemia.

Red Cross
local hosptial blood bank
private blood banks in your area -that do alltypes of bllod services and collections.
 
It is extreamly important to give blood on cycle,as I learned last year after developing a superficial blood clot in my leg scary shit man. Now when I cycle on I give as much blood as possible also eat clean,avoid coffee,and took an asprin a day these all help in keeping RBC in check.
 
great thread guys...High RBCs has really been the only issue I have found with my blood work on a regular basis other than slightly elevated liver panels...
 

Staff online

  • rAJJIN
    Moderator / FOUNDING Member
  • pesty4077
    Moderator/ Featured Member / Kilo Klub

Forum statistics

Total page views
575,884,079
Threads
138,416
Messages
2,856,140
Members
161,430
Latest member
C1833
NapsGear
HGH Power Store email banner
yourdailyvitamins
Prowrist straps store banner
yourrawmaterials
3
raws
Savage Labs Store email
Syntherol Site Enhancing Oil Synthol
aqpharma
yms-GIF-210x131-Banne-B
hulabs
ezgif-com-resize-2-1
MA Research Chem store banner
MA Supps Store Banner
volartek
Keytech banner
thc
Godbullraw-bottom-banner
Injection Instructions for beginners
YMS-210x131-V02
Back
Top