Enanthate (slow) > Propinate(Fast) theory really true?

[Wayacrucis]

There was an article a while back stating that Long esters are superior to short ones in terms of total testosterone levels built up in the body over a certain period.

Link to graph for comparison prop and test e: Long Ester Much Better Than Short Ester


It pretty much states that you would receive more total testosterone in the body with a long ester, thus making it superior to a short one in terms of gains?


Anyone have any input on this? is Test e really superior to prop for gains?

 

[highdrum]

Long esthers have a compounding affect, where two doese could be active in the body at the same time since the half life is so long. Bad thing is, you only get 70-75% of the dose due to the heavy 6 carbon Enanthate esther.
Prop has very few carbons 1-2 making you get about 90% of the dose, so I think dosing prop ED or EOD will yield more stable blood levels as well if any shitty sides flare up, you can drop your dose and be minimal T in 3-4 days, where Enanthate would take 3-4 weeks. However I am currently running Enanthat haha, pinnning ED or EOD is a pain in the ass, literally...........

 

[johnjuanb1]

I get my best results from fast esthers. Test prop is the best IMO!

 

[MaineGuy]

I will just copy and paste for you

After reading about esters and half-lifes of steroids i've realised that long esters are much more effective mg per mg. Let me explain by using Testosteron Propionate and testosterone Enanthate as examples:

Enanthate has a half-life of 10.5 days. testosterone propionate has a half-life of 4.5 days. For this example, lets say there were 2 people who wanted to use testosterone Enanthate or Propionate for 63 days. Each person had 7500mg of each compound and each person would inject their compound every half-life.

testosterone propionate:
1st Injection: 500mg
2nd Injection: 250mg left + 500mg = 750mg
3rd Injection: 375mg left + 500mg = 875mg
4th Injection: 438mg left + 500mg = 938mg
5th Injection: 469mg left + 500mg = 969mg
6th Injection: 485mg left + 500mg = 985mg
7th Injection: 493mg left + 500mg = 993mg
8th Injection: 496mg left + 500mg = 996mg
9th Injection: 498mg left + 500mg = 998mg
10th Injection: 499mg left + 500mg = 999mg
11th Injection: 500mg left + 500mg = 1000mg
12th Injection: 500mg left + 500mg = 1000mg
13th Injection: 500mg left + 500mg = 1000mg
14th Injection: 500mg left + 500mg = 1000mg
15th Injection: 500mg left + 500mg = 1000mg

As you can see these 15 injections took 14 half-lifes which equal 63 days (4.5 days x 14 half-lifes).
The maximum level of testosterone reached in the 63 days is 1000mg.

Enanthate:
1st Injection: 1250mg
2nd Injection: 625mg + 1250mg = 1875mg
3rd Injection: 938mg + 1250mg = 2188mg
4th Injection: 1094mg + 1250mg = 2344mg
5th Injection: 1172 + 1250mg = 2422mg
6th Injection: 1211 + 1250mg = 2461mg
7th Injection: 1230mg + 1250mg = 2480mg

As you see these only took 7 injections which took 6 half-lifes which also equal 63 days(10.5 days x 6 half-lifes). The maximum level of testosterone reached in the 63 days is 2480mg.

In conclusion, you can see that after running the same amount of testosterone (7500mg) for the same amount of time(63 days), the enanthate ester built up a testosterone level of 2480mg while the testosterone propionate only reached 1000mg. This shows why long esters are much more effectice per mg.

This is interesting for me, but I am sure there are many on here that knew this. I guess I never took the time to figure it out.

 

[Wayacrucis]

I will just copy and paste for you

After reading about esters and half-lifes of steroids i've realised that long esters are much more effective mg per mg. Let me explain by using Testosteron Propionate and testosterone Enanthate as examples:

Enanthate has a half-life of 10.5 days. testosterone propionate has a half-life of 4.5 days. For this example, lets say there were 2 people who wanted to use testosterone Enanthate or Propionate for 63 days. Each person had 7500mg of each compound and each person would inject their compound every half-life.

testosterone propionate:
1st Injection: 500mg
2nd Injection: 250mg left + 500mg = 750mg
3rd Injection: 375mg left + 500mg = 875mg
4th Injection: 438mg left + 500mg = 938mg
5th Injection: 469mg left + 500mg = 969mg
6th Injection: 485mg left + 500mg = 985mg
7th Injection: 493mg left + 500mg = 993mg
8th Injection: 496mg left + 500mg = 996mg
9th Injection: 498mg left + 500mg = 998mg
10th Injection: 499mg left + 500mg = 999mg
11th Injection: 500mg left + 500mg = 1000mg
12th Injection: 500mg left + 500mg = 1000mg
13th Injection: 500mg left + 500mg = 1000mg
14th Injection: 500mg left + 500mg = 1000mg
15th Injection: 500mg left + 500mg = 1000mg

As you can see these 15 injections took 14 half-lifes which equal 63 days (4.5 days x 14 half-lifes).
The maximum level of testosterone reached in the 63 days is 1000mg.

Enanthate:
1st Injection: 1250mg
2nd Injection: 625mg + 1250mg = 1875mg
3rd Injection: 938mg + 1250mg = 2188mg
4th Injection: 1094mg + 1250mg = 2344mg
5th Injection: 1172 + 1250mg = 2422mg
6th Injection: 1211 + 1250mg = 2461mg
7th Injection: 1230mg + 1250mg = 2480mg

As you see these only took 7 injections which took 6 half-lifes which also equal 63 days(10.5 days x 6 half-lifes). The maximum level of testosterone reached in the 63 days is 2480mg.

In conclusion, you can see that after running the same amount of testosterone (7500mg) for the same amount of time(63 days), the enanthate ester built up a testosterone level of 2480mg while the testosterone propionate only reached 1000mg. This shows why long esters are much more effectice per mg.

This is interesting for me, but I am sure there are many on here that knew this. I guess I never took the time to figure it out.

Tnx.

So in theory the longer you run Test E, the more you will also build up in your system. So doesn't that also create another advantage when comparing to prop? So basically as the cycle progresses the quantity of test in the system increases, without the user having to actually up the dose.

 

[mjacked]

Long esthers have a compounding affect, where two doese could be active in the body at the same time since the half life is so long. Bad thing is, you only get 70-75% of the dose due to the heavy 6 carbon Enanthate esther.
Prop has very few carbons 1-2 making you get about 90% of the dose, so I think dosing prop ED or EOD will yield more stable blood levels as well if any shitty sides flare up, you can drop your dose and be minimal T in 3-4 days, where Enanthate would take 3-4 weeks. However I am currently running Enanthat haha, pinnning ED or EOD is a pain in the ass, literally...........

:yeahthat:

 

[Wayacrucis]

:yeahthat:

This makes sense, but I believe out of 100mg of Test Prop you get something like 85mg of pure Test, and Test E is 74-75mg. Only about a 10mg difference, per 100mg injected. So you could say when you take the ester weight into account 1000mg of Test E = 900mg Of Test Prop, but looking at the graph above Test E builds up to about 2400mg, while Prop only 1000mg. Even if you reduce 300mg of the Test build up for enanthate due to ester weight, you still have 2100mg vs 1000mg, which would make enanthate superior?


Let me know if I am missing something.

 

[Kaladryn]

I will just copy and paste for you

After reading about esters and half-lifes of steroids i've realised that long esters are much more effective mg per mg. Let me explain by using Testosteron Propionate and testosterone Enanthate as examples:

Enanthate has a half-life of 10.5 days. testosterone propionate has a half-life of 4.5 days. For this example, lets say there were 2 people who wanted to use testosterone Enanthate or Propionate for 63 days. Each person had 7500mg of each compound and each person would inject their compound every half-life.

testosterone propionate:
1st Injection: 500mg
2nd Injection: 250mg left + 500mg = 750mg
3rd Injection: 375mg left + 500mg = 875mg
4th Injection: 438mg left + 500mg = 938mg
5th Injection: 469mg left + 500mg = 969mg
6th Injection: 485mg left + 500mg = 985mg
7th Injection: 493mg left + 500mg = 993mg
8th Injection: 496mg left + 500mg = 996mg
9th Injection: 498mg left + 500mg = 998mg
10th Injection: 499mg left + 500mg = 999mg
11th Injection: 500mg left + 500mg = 1000mg
12th Injection: 500mg left + 500mg = 1000mg
13th Injection: 500mg left + 500mg = 1000mg
14th Injection: 500mg left + 500mg = 1000mg
15th Injection: 500mg left + 500mg = 1000mg

As you can see these 15 injections took 14 half-lifes which equal 63 days (4.5 days x 14 half-lifes).
The maximum level of testosterone reached in the 63 days is 1000mg.

Enanthate:
1st Injection: 1250mg
2nd Injection: 625mg + 1250mg = 1875mg
3rd Injection: 938mg + 1250mg = 2188mg
4th Injection: 1094mg + 1250mg = 2344mg
5th Injection: 1172 + 1250mg = 2422mg
6th Injection: 1211 + 1250mg = 2461mg
7th Injection: 1230mg + 1250mg = 2480mg

As you see these only took 7 injections which took 6 half-lifes which also equal 63 days(10.5 days x 6 half-lifes). The maximum level of testosterone reached in the 63 days is 2480mg.

In conclusion, you can see that after running the same amount of testosterone (7500mg) for the same amount of time(63 days), the enanthate ester built up a testosterone level of 2480mg while the testosterone propionate only reached 1000mg. This shows why long esters are much more effectice per mg.

This is interesting for me, but I am sure there are many on here that knew this. I guess I never took the time to figure it out.

lmao, this is what happens when people try to get overly "scientific" and they don't know what they are doing, the hole in the logic here is pretty massive and obvious.

He makes the logical error of swapping "free testosterone" and "esterified testosterone." Of course you get higher levels of esterified hormone built up with longer esters, HOWEVER, this doesn't mean you have higher levels of free testosterone. So, on the same dose of test (ester weight taken into account), you would have more cyp and less prop i your system, however the prop would be cleaving the ester off faster and thus leaving behind more free testosterone. Total free testosterone would be the same in both groups.

Hilarious.

 

[saps]

Guys this might look good on paper but JJ said it best, if any of you have actually tried Cyp or Enan and then tried Prop or even better yet TNE or Susp. You know firsthand what charts and graphs cannot tell you. Shorter esters just work and feel better.
The problem with calculating the remaining test is that not every mg of the hormone is active at any given time and until the ester releases for lack of a better term the data above is grossly inaccurate.
Just a month or two ago I ran TNE [TestNoEster for those that don't know] 100mg ED for about 6 weeks. That was 700mg of pure test a week. The results were significant. I can only offer my personal subjective comparisons. But I have also ran 200mg ED of test enan. So 1400mg a week but yes lets factor out the ester weight of 28% so about 1000mg a week. There was no comparison for me. The TNE was so much more powerful. It was all active all the time. Heck I've run 100mg of Prop ED and I'd call it more effective than 200mg ED of enan.

At the end of the day yes try for yourself and see it will always trump internet data and opinion but also review the opinions of those who try it for themselves. Most [not at all] who have tried long and short esters will vouche for the shorters effectiveness superiority. But you never know for yourself till you try

 

[Wayacrucis]

Reason why I thought I'd post this was also due to self experience.

I've used both Deca and NPP. When I ran NPP and Sust my gains were ridiculous, lots of water weight, nice strenght but also a fair amount of lean mass.

A while after I tried NPP and Test Prop. At respectable doses. 150mg Prop EOD, 125mg NPP EOD. So in total 600mg Prop, 500mg NPP EW.

I gained maybe 2lbs the entire cycle eating 4000 cals/day at about 210lbs. Strength gains were very so-so as well, nothing significant.

On the other hand I've had amazing results with Test Prop and Tren ace.

Perhaps my NPP was bad? I guess it's a possibility, but I've been using the same UGL for 2 years now, and that was the only time I thought a product may have been off, from the very vast variety of products I've tried from them. I suppose the failure of the NPP/Prop cycle made me think, long esters were responsible for the better gains I had on Deca/Sust.

 

[mergesort55]

Wow okay, this is fucking retarded. This is what happens with someone with half a brain does a few calculations and doesn't look at the right thing.


THOSE ARE THE AMOUNT OF THE COMPOUND ATTACHED TO THE ESTER IN THE SYSTEM, NOT TESTOSTERONE BEING RELEASED


YOU ONLY CARE ABOUT THE RATE OF ESTER CLEAVAGE, ie how much test is released per day...


Think about it for a second. If enan has a half life of 7 days or whatever the hell you want it to have, if you inject 250mg twice a week, how the hell do you expect to get 500mg of test released into your system? Not going to happen. This is why long esters take time to kick in. You have to get enough of the damn ester in your system so that the release rate is equal to your inject rate. Same thing with prop, it has to build up in your system as well, but that happens WAAAAY faster than it does for enan.

 

[borderbound]

Think about it for a second. If enan has a half life of 7 days or whatever the hell you want it to have, if you inject 250mg twice a week, how the hell do you expect to get 500mg of test released into your system? Not going to happen. This is why long esters take time to kick in. You have to get enough of the damn ester in your system so that the release rate is equal to your inject rate. Same thing with prop, it has to build up in your system as well, but that happens WAAAAY faster than it does for enan.[/QUOTE]



NO what he is getting at is the enthanate ester weighs more than the propionate ester

1 gram of test no ester = 1000 milligrams of test
1 gram of prop = 794 mg of test
1 gram test enth/cyp = 692 mg test

who ever said you need to or even should run enthanate or cypionate at a steady dosage PRE LOAD the begining or add prop or tne for the first few weeks and taper into prop at the end or drop down to a cruise dose

 

[KillerStack]

Enanthate has a half-life of 10.5 days. testosterone propionate has a half-life of 4.5 days.

It doesn't. Enanthate has a half-life of about 2-5 days depending on source used for the value. I have no idea where the 10.5 day figure comes from... some steroid "expert" made it up probably.

 

[borderbound]

It doesn't. Enanthate has a half-life of about 2-5 days depending on source used for the value. I have no idea where the 10.5 day figure comes from... some steroid "expert" made it up probably.

you are correct i believe its the active life thats around 10 days thats been mis-quoted all over the web as the half-life

 

[Kaladryn]

It doesn't. Enanthate has a half-life of about 2-5 days depending on source used for the value. I have no idea where the 10.5 day figure comes from... some steroid "expert" made it up probably.

Cyp has an actual halflife of around 8 days in the "average" person (who wants to bet bodybuilders break it down much faster?), and enanthate is a shorter ester, so KillerStack is correct, no way it has 10 day halflife, that sounds like some Anthony Roberts bs.

 

[smackthatAAS]

lmao, this is what happens when people try to get overly "scientific" and they don't know what they are doing, the hole in the logic here is pretty massive and obvious.

He makes the logical error of swapping "free testosterone" and "esterified testosterone." Of course you get higher levels of esterified hormone built up with longer esters, HOWEVER, this doesn't mean you have higher levels of free testosterone. So, on the same dose of test (ester weight taken into account), you would have more cyp and less prop i your system, however the prop would be cleaving the ester off faster and thus leaving behind more free testosterone. Total free testosterone would be the same in both groups.

Hilarious.

Thank you.

 

[krackerrc]

The way ive always used is if i want bulk use eth or cyp where as you hold more water therefor makin you appear.bigger. pro and tne for tonin up cuz hardly any water retension.

 

[Chode Logan]

Short esters > long esters for me, across the board.

 

[Adonis89]

Short esters have always treated me best. The only time I like using long esters is when I can keep it at a dose of 100mg or so for TRT. And the only reason I'd go long over short is to minimize injection volume and frequency a bit. At the end of the day, I'd rather pin more than bloat more.

See the attached image. That's 350mg/week prop. NO AI!!

I don't think that balance is so easy to achieve with longer esters and no AI. I'm sure some can, but I'd bet most can't.

 

[saps]

Still comes down to dose frequency. There will be less fluctuation hitting something like enanthate ED than prop EOD. Though again between enan ED or prop ED I go prop ED