Enclomiphene in TRT

[DOGGCRAPP]

Swifto.....I have been doing something akin to that for 2 plus years. I dumped HCG long ago and switched over to Enclomiphene.
Been on TRT since 2008-2009, the same program forever....I have not tested LH, FSH but have tested TT and FT yes and they have been highest. Estradiol is higher too tho to be honest.
I kind of go by how i feel now since i have been doing this for so long and this is the best I've felt jointwise, libido, etc....especially jointwise.
As i have noted long ago on this board with the feedback loop - There has been studies that have shown men with normal to high testosterone levels who used clomid and their Testosterone levels went even higher (up another 30-40% if i remember right). Bodybuilders for decades used clomid in PCT immediately during the 4-6 weeks they got off (the very SAME time where their bodies had exogenous testosterone still working, not nearly impaired at that moment) and im not talking a handfull of bodybuilders, I am talking 100's of thousands, its where clomid developed its reputation to work for some. If it worked like an empty capsule or simple maltodextrin it would have never garnered the reputation it did. And this is clomid I am talking about with the awful isomer Zuclomiphene in it that has deleterious effects, some effects that do the very opposite of what you are trying to accomplish.

But there is no doubt that as exogenous testosterone waned (above) past that 4-6 week mark, there was a definitive lag time period where 'clomid' could not bring someone up to speed quickly endogenous testosterone wise and virtually everyone suffered. But again that was with the zuclomiphene version.

I dont think you are going to see the FSH and LH levels you want to see, I really dont....so I really do not know. Its very strange. I think the drug is not fully understood in a variety of ways....and I reserve any definite opinion on it except i was able to switch from HCG to enclomiphene with ease (it was my choice not a shortage) and I have seen others do the same.

 

[Yousef12O2]

dante do you still take boron?

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Yes 6 mg morn and night

 

[Mike Arnold]

Could you try this too?

Let's get a few of us and try to formulate a solid opinion on this.

I am still looking for a reliable Enclomiphene source, preferably pharma Androxal...

Legit TRT 100-150mg/wk for minimum 6 weeks, 12.5mg per day Enclomiphene, LH, FSH, TT, FT tested.

This is what I want to see. Dante said he has seen some people have great success using enclom in the presence of AAS, but I haven't (personally, although my direct experience is limited). I have seen people post that they've had success, though. It would be great if we could assemble like a half-dozen trustworthy people willing to use enclom under various circumstances, ranging from TRT to full-blown cycles....and then evaluate the results. Typically, in the bodybuilding world, we hardly ever get to see something like this. Normally, we usually just end up coming to conclusions after years of feedback.

I wouldn't want to conduct something like this all by myself, but if someone like Dante (or some other capable person) wanted to put together a well thought experiment, I would be willing to contribute a certain component essential to the experiment (with verifiable labs, of course).

 

[Mike Arnold]

Swifto.....I have been doing something akin to that for 2 plus years. I dumped HCG long ago and switched over to Enclomiphene.
Been on TRT since 2008-2009, the same program forever....I have not tested LH, FSH but have tested TT and FT yes and they have been highest. Estradiol is higher too tho to be honest.
I kind of go by how i feel now since i have been doing this for so long and this is the best I've felt jointwise, libido, etc....especially jointwise.
As i have noted long ago on this board with the feedback loop - There has been studies that have shown men with normal to high testosterone levels who used clomid and their Testosterone levels went even higher (up another 30-40% if i remember right). Bodybuilders for decades used clomid in PCT immediately during the 4-6 weeks they got off (the very SAME time where their bodies had exogenous testosterone still working, not nearly impaired at that moment) and im not talking a handfull of bodybuilders, I am talking 100's of thousands, its where clomid developed its reputation to work for some. If it worked like an empty capsule or simple maltodextrin it would have never garnered the reputation it did. And this is clomid I am talking about with the awful isomer Zuclomiphene in it that has deleterious effects, some effects that do the very opposite of what you are trying to accomplish.

But there is no doubt that as exogenous testosterone waned (above) past that 4-6 week mark, there was a definitive lag time period where 'clomid' could not bring someone up to speed quickly endogenous testosterone wise and virtually everyone suffered. But again that was with the zuclomiphene version.

I dont think you are going to see the FSH and LH levels you want to see, I really dont....so I really do not know. Its very strange. I think the drug is not fully understood in a variety of ways....and I reserve any definite opinion on it except i was able to switch from HCG to enclomiphene with ease (it was my choice not a shortage) and I have seen others do the same.

See bold above: Dave Palumbo mentioned something like this like 15 years ago.

 

[pickapeck]

Please (like everyone else in bodybuilding) take anything Victor Black says with less than a grain of salt. He has been touting for years that he brought Telmisartan and other scenarios to the bodybuilding world. Absolutely false. Professional Muscle brought Telmisartan to the attention of the bodybuilding world a full decade previous to Victor Black (or anyone else) trying to make that claim did. There are about 200 topics out there on social media that people are trying to claim for themselves like they are the origin...when the truth of the matter is those topics were talked about and discussed on Professional Muscle years if not a decade plus previously. One search on someone like Discohornet will show you who brought Telmisartan to the forefront on here. I digress.

People are so absolute with things sometimes it drives me nuts how close minded they are to maybe there are other options. For example Enclomiphene. Right off the bat you'll hear the white knight experts come right in and say "Well because of the feedback loop a SERM cannot work like that....." ....well then maybe you are right and maybe you are wrong but you cannot deny that there are posts like the following....(cut and pasted)

-- I took 25mg a day of enclomiphene while on 150mg of test cyp and my LH was in the middle of the reference range and my Fsh was well above the reference range. And my total test level was 1200+.
and this person reported that previously while just on TRT that his testosterone was 700 or so (if i remember right) and when he added the enclomiphene it soared. Complete with bloodwork attached.

Is that definitive proof no....but there seems to be more anecdotal evidence coming in that many people feel this seems to work for them. So myself i have never been one of these "Absolutely Not", "Absolutely Yes" people in bodybuilding because you end up eating crow when you do that....because there are maybe things we dont understand currently that will be more understood as years go by. I would suggest (i would not go to 25mg enclomiphene but) I would suggest you try out some daily enclomiphene with TRT and see the difference between total and free for yourself pre and post.

Not for nothing but i did the experiment with normal clomid and my LH went up into normal range on TRT of 100 mg/w. Also with hCG in place same thing. sSo, maybe I am an outlier but it is what it is.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

See bold above: Dave Palumbo mentioned something like this like 15 years ago.

Mike i really wasnt stating that in a "I said it first" type of way but if thats what you are alluding to....I just looked it up on this board and I posted it May of 2010 so 13 years ago or so. If Palumbo also posted on that same topic previous to that more power to him.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Mike i really wasnt stating that in a "I said it first" type of way but if thats what you are alluding to....I just looked it up on this board and I posted it May of 2010 so 13 years ago or so. If Palumbo also posted on that same topic previous to that more power to him.

I know, brother. I was just mentioning that I also heard Dave say something like this a long time ago.

 

[shaneNJ]

This is what I want to see. Dante said he has seen some people have great success using enclom in the presence of AAS, but I haven't (personally, although my direct experience is limited). I have seen people post that they've had success, though. It would be great if we could assemble like a half-dozen trustworthy people willing to use enclom under various circumstances, ranging from TRT to full-blown cycles....and then evaluate the results. Typically, in the bodybuilding world, we hardly ever get to see something like this. Normally, we usually just end up coming to conclusions after years of feedback.

I wouldn't want to conduct something like this all by myself, but if someone like Dante (or some other capable person) wanted to put together a well thought experiment, I would be willing to contribute a certain component essential to the experiment (with verifiable labs, of course).

Glad I stumbled upon this thread. I’ve been doing extensive research on enclomiphene to help me recover from Finally going off steroids after over 30 years use/abuse. Obviously, my system is completely shut down and I will be needing some form of TRT for the rest of my life. I’ve been completely off all steroids for 90 days and will be getting bloodwork done soon for an accurate baseline. I feel like total shit with lack of energy, no motivation, shriveled nuts, zero sex drive, depression, muscle atrophy- the works. I was about to sign up for one of the online clinics to get enclomiphene from a compound pharmacy, but I see that you were getting some good stuff and it would be a lot cheaper to go through you. Have you had this latest batch tested and have you had any feedback yet from clients? I plan to start my protocol with 12.5mg enclomiphene only daily for 3 months and then get labs done again. Want to see how I respond to just enclomphine before adding in HCG which I will do after 90 days. I know there are varying opinions on proper PCT protocol and I want to accurately assess the efficacy of enclomiphene as a monotherapy. If there is interest, I will provide a log so that other members may follow my progress with honest feedback. I’m sure there are a lot of long term users that would like to quit use for health reasons and may want to explore other options than testosterone HRT.

 

[Sully1234]

And this is clomid I am talking about with the awful isomer Zuclomiphene in it that has deleterious effects, some effects that do the very opposite of what you are trying to accomplish.

But there is no doubt that as exogenous testosterone waned (above) past that 4-6 week mark, there was a definitive lag time period where 'clomid' could not bring someone up to speed quickly endogenous testosterone wise and virtually everyone suffered. But again that was with the zuclomiphene version.

Clomid is actually a mixutre of enclomiphene and zuclomiphene... And zuclomiphene is terrible.

So clomiphene should be avoided as it contains zuclomiphene and opting for pure enclomiphene would be better in the BB world?

Excuse my ignorance I've always used Nolva because I've heard about the mental sides from clomid.

 

[Swifto]

Clomid is actually a mixutre of enclomiphene and zuclomiphene... And zuclomiphene is terrible.

So clomiphene should be avoided as it contains zuclomiphene and opting for pure enclomiphene would be better in the BB world?

Excuse my ignorance I've always used Nolva because I've heard about the mental sides from clomid.

If you can obtain Enclomiphene, then there is no reason to use Clomid.

It depends what you are trying to achieve.

Tamoxifen is still effective at raising endogenous testosterone in PCT (if thats what you want a SERM for).

 

[Sully1234]

If you can obtain Enclomiphene, then there is no reason to use Clomid.

It depends what you are trying to achieve.

Tamoxifen is still effective at raising endogenous testosterone in PCT (if thats what you want a SERM for).

I have tamox as well, honestly I am only trying Clomid for sexual/recreational reason - larger ejaculation/better orgasm.

 

[Fa Seeshus]

Serm use on cycle can let you use less AI and keep a better HDL/LDL ratio.

Also easier on the joints

 

[EnhancedFatGrappler]

I have tamox as well, honestly I am only trying Clomid for sexual/recreational reason - larger ejaculation/better orgasm.

So do you get the benefits of it even on cycle? Never tried it while I'm on cycle/cruising. Clomid worked like a charm to bring the boys back to fullness during my PCT the last time I used, volume was noticeably increased. But it went away after the PCT in 2-3 weeks.

I've been on at least TRT for the last 5 years though, just got sick of the PCT rollercoaster ride, I'll be on TRT until I kick the bucket. But got plenty of enclomiphene in my gear cabinet which I thought would never get any use, I was thinking that SERMS + Gear + HCG just doesn't work. Sounds like it could work for some fun times with the gf on a spa trip ;-). Like a few days before the event?

 

[Sully1234]

So do you get the benefits of it even on cycle? Never tried it while I'm on cycle/cruising. Clomid worked like a charm to bring the boys back to fullness during my PCT the last time I used, volume was noticeably increased. But it went away after the PCT in 2-3 weeks.

I've been on at least TRT for the last 5 years though, just got sick of the PCT rollercoaster ride, I'll be on TRT until I kick the bucket. But got plenty of enclomiphene in my gear cabinet which I thought would never get any use, I was thinking that SERMS + Gear + HCG just doesn't work. Sounds like it could work for some fun times with the gf on a spa trip ;-). Like a few days before the event?

I've only taken a couple doses but @marssel says it works for him in that regard... He said 50-100mg each day for a few days before the "event" lol

 

[totalrecomp]

So do you get the benefits of it even on cycle? Never tried it while I'm on cycle/cruising. Clomid worked like a charm to bring the boys back to fullness during my PCT the last time I used, volume was noticeably increased. But it went away after the PCT in 2-3 weeks.

I've been on at least TRT for the last 5 years though, just got sick of the PCT rollercoaster ride, I'll be on TRT until I kick the bucket. But got plenty of enclomiphene in my gear cabinet which I thought would never get any use, I was thinking that SERMS + Gear + HCG just doesn't work. Sounds like it could work for some fun times with the gf on a spa trip ;-). Like a few days before the event?

If you have already paid for the stuff and are sitting on it might as well experiment.

 

[supermofo]

Swifto.....I have been doing something akin to that for 2 plus years. I dumped HCG long ago and switched over to Enclomiphene.
Been on TRT since 2008-2009, the same program forever....I have not tested LH, FSH but have tested TT and FT yes and they have been highest. Estradiol is higher too tho to be honest.
I kind of go by how i feel now since i have been doing this for so long and this is the best I've felt jointwise, libido, etc....especially jointwise.
As i have noted long ago on this board with the feedback loop - There has been studies that have shown men with normal to high testosterone levels who used clomid and their Testosterone levels went even higher (up another 30-40% if i remember right). Bodybuilders for decades used clomid in PCT immediately during the 4-6 weeks they got off (the very SAME time where their bodies had exogenous testosterone still working, not nearly impaired at that moment) and im not talking a handfull of bodybuilders, I am talking 100's of thousands, its where clomid developed its reputation to work for some. If it worked like an empty capsule or simple maltodextrin it would have never garnered the reputation it did. And this is clomid I am talking about with the awful isomer Zuclomiphene in it that has deleterious effects, some effects that do the very opposite of what you are trying to accomplish.

But there is no doubt that as exogenous testosterone waned (above) past that 4-6 week mark, there was a definitive lag time period where 'clomid' could not bring someone up to speed quickly endogenous testosterone wise and virtually everyone suffered. But again that was with the zuclomiphene version.

I dont think you are going to see the FSH and LH levels you want to see, I really dont....so I really do not know. Its very strange. I think the drug is not fully understood in a variety of ways....and I reserve any definite opinion on it except i was able to switch from HCG to enclomiphene with ease (it was my choice not a shortage) and I have seen others do the same.

Dante, what does your Enclomiphene protocol look like? I see anywhere from 25mg/daily to 12.5mg 2-3 X week...

 

[Sully1234]

So do you get the benefits of it even on cycle? Never tried it while I'm on cycle/cruising. Clomid worked like a charm to bring the boys back to fullness during my PCT the last time I used, volume was noticeably increased. But it went away after the PCT in 2-3 weeks.

I've been on at least TRT for the last 5 years though, just got sick of the PCT rollercoaster ride, I'll be on TRT until I kick the bucket. But got plenty of enclomiphene in my gear cabinet which I thought would never get any use, I was thinking that SERMS + Gear + HCG just doesn't work. Sounds like it could work for some fun times with the gf on a spa trip ;-). Like a few days before the event?

Hasn't worked for me fyi. Maybe you'll have better luck but I'll continue trying it...

 

[marssel]

I've only taken a couple doses but @marssel says it works for him in that regard... He said 50-100mg each day for a few days before the "event" lol

Yea for sure bro and it lasts for about 5 days and stay hydrated even if you plan to drink slip some water in as you go. I always get harder and cum bigger if I’m hydrated I prolly only drink 2-5 times a year at best but when I do I drink ALL the Patron but I toss back water as I go so I keep my wits and my dick on point

 

[Sully1234]

Yea for sure bro and it lasts for about 5 days and stay hydrated even if you plan to drink slip some water in as you go. I always get harder and cum bigger if I’m hydrated I prolly only drink 2-5 times a year at best but when I do I drink ALL the Patron but I toss back water as I go so I keep my wits and my dick on point

Lol so it still works for you even when blasting gear?