Epistane or proviron?

[Arko.]

I have both, and have used proviron before but never epistane.

I'm on 100mg/wk trt and just want to add a slight boost with a dht derivative because I'm a brutal aromatizer even on low dose test.
You guys ever done a test epistane cycle? What's the lowest dose you've used with decent results?

 

[pickapeck]

No on the epistane but good question. Proviron on the other hand works nicely. Hardening and mild drying effects at 50 mg and up. Hair loss is a problem though if you are prone.

 

[NorwegianMuscle]

Epistane as in the prohormone? It has to be converted through the liver into a testosterone. I am aware it has anti estrogen abilities but you can't compare Epistane to Proviron. In my opinion, go with the Proviron.

 

[Type-IIx]

Epistane (2α,3α-epithio-17α-methyl-5α-androstan-17β-ol; 2α,3α-epithio-17α-methyl-5α-etioallocholan-17β-ol; 17α-methylepithiostanol; Methepitiostane; Havoc; Epi-Strong) is a product of the Designer Steroid Era, a potently hepatoxic orally active compound, but would be highly efficacious as an anti-estrogen agent, as its non-methylated counterpart (epitiostanol) is used clinically in Japan for treatment-resistant, relapsing stage IV metastatic breast cancer, as a form of alternative endocrinotherapy. In fact, it was demonstrated that epitiostanol (20mg) was more efficacious than Masteron (50mg) in treatment of male gynecomastia... its proposed mechanism is that it modulates estrogenic action at the target organ (cellular) level rather than by suppression of gonadotropin secretion.

Proviron is effective, as pickapeck says, as a mild hardening/drying compound. Some use it for libido benefits. It lowers SHBG. Some contraindications are that it (metabolism-dependent) may block Δ5 pathway of T synthesis ↑DHEA supply from [adrenal] DHEA pool for T synthesis in some individuals. It has a notable withdrawal effect upon cessation in these individuals. It is a mild anabolic, whereas epistane is potent (indeed, Epistane's Hershberger Assay results give it a remarkable anabolic/androgenic ratio of 1,100/91). Proviron is not potently hepatotoxic.

How did you arrive at the choice of these two particular compounds for your proposed use, may I ask? I am intrigued by the basic chemistry that ties the two together: their close structural relationship to 5α-DHT. So many throw around the term "DHT derivative," but these are characterized on the one hand, with Epistane, by the replacement of the 3-keto with 2,3 alpha-epithio (a sulphur atom spanning C2 and C3), versus Proviron being 1α-methyl-DHT.

Don't be led astray by their analogous features to (5α-)dihydrotestosterone, though; these compounds are remarkably different in their metabolism which is what really matters. For example, Proviron metabolizes in vivo partly to desoxymethyltestosterone (Madol), a highly dissimilar and highly potent androgen known for causing rage. Really, the grouping of these two as "DHT derivatives" highlights the pitfalls of relying on such simple classifications.

 

[Muay Thai]

Epistane as in the prohormone? It has to be converted through the liver into a testosterone. I am aware it has anti estrogen abilities but you can't compare Epistane to Proviron. In my opinion, go with the Proviron.

i disagree having extensive experience with both but I hear ya brother. I got better gains on epistane than anavar or proviron, proviron is more cosmetic and good for shbg release

 

[Arko.]

Epistane (2α,3α-epithio-17α-methyl-5α-androstan-17β-ol; 2α,3α-epithio-17α-methyl-5α-etioallocholan-17β-ol; 17α-methylepithiostanol; Methepitiostane; Havoc; Epi-Strong) is a product of the Designer Steroid Era, a potently hepatoxic orally active compound, but would be highly efficacious as an anti-estrogen agent, as its non-methylated counterpart (epitiostanol) is used clinically in Japan for treatment-resistant, relapsing stage IV metastatic breast cancer, as a form of alternative endocrinotherapy. In fact, it was demonstrated that epitiostanol (20mg) was more efficacious than Masteron (50mg) in treatment of male gynecomastia... its proposed mechanism is that it modulates estrogenic action at the target organ (cellular) level rather than by suppression of gonadotropin secretion.

Proviron is effective, as pickapeck says, as a mild hardening/drying compound. Some use it for libido benefits. It lowers SHBG. Some contraindications are that it (metabolism-dependent) may block Δ5 pathway of T synthesis ↑DHEA supply from [adrenal] DHEA pool for T synthesis in some individuals. It has a notable withdrawal effect upon cessation in these individuals. It is a mild anabolic, whereas epistane is potent (indeed, Epistane's Hershberger Assay results give it a remarkable anabolic/androgenic ratio of 1,100/91). Proviron is not potently hepatotoxic.

How did you arrive at the choice of these two particular compounds for your proposed use, may I ask? I am intrigued by the basic chemistry that ties the two together: their close structural relationship to 5α-DHT. So many throw around the term "DHT derivative," but these are characterized on the one hand, with Epistane, by the replacement of the 3-keto with 2,3 alpha-epithio (a sulphur atom spanning C2 and C3), versus Proviron being 1α-methyl-DHT.

Don't be led astray by their analogous features to (5α-)dihydrotestosterone, though; these compounds are remarkably different in their metabolism which is what really matters. For example, Proviron metabolizes in vivo partly to desoxymethyltestosterone (Madol), a highly dissimilar and highly potent androgen known for causing rage. Really, the grouping of these two as "DHT derivatives" highlights the pitfalls of relying on such simple classifications.

Damn, you certainly know your sh*+ thanks for the depth of knowledge here! I'll probably stick with proviron to play it safe.

 

[Muay Thai]

Epistane (2α,3α-epithio-17α-methyl-5α-androstan-17β-ol; 2α,3α-epithio-17α-methyl-5α-etioallocholan-17β-ol; 17α-methylepithiostanol; Methepitiostane; Havoc; Epi-Strong) is a product of the Designer Steroid Era, a potently hepatoxic orally active compound, but would be highly efficacious as an anti-estrogen agent, as its non-methylated counterpart (epitiostanol) is used clinically in Japan for treatment-resistant, relapsing stage IV metastatic breast cancer, as a form of alternative endocrinotherapy. In fact, it was demonstrated that epitiostanol (20mg) was more efficacious than Masteron (50mg) in treatment of male gynecomastia... its proposed mechanism is that it modulates estrogenic action at the target organ (cellular) level rather than by suppression of gonadotropin secretion.

Proviron is effective, as pickapeck says, as a mild hardening/drying compound. Some use it for libido benefits. It lowers SHBG. Some contraindications are that it (metabolism-dependent) may block Δ5 pathway of T synthesis ↑DHEA supply from [adrenal] DHEA pool for T synthesis in some individuals. It has a notable withdrawal effect upon cessation in these individuals. It is a mild anabolic, whereas epistane is potent (indeed, Epistane's Hershberger Assay results give it a remarkable anabolic/androgenic ratio of 1,100/91). Proviron is not potently hepatotoxic.

How did you arrive at the choice of these two particular compounds for your proposed use, may I ask? I am intrigued by the basic chemistry that ties the two together: their close structural relationship to 5α-DHT. So many throw around the term "DHT derivative," but these are characterized on the one hand, with Epistane, by the replacement of the 3-keto with 2,3 alpha-epithio (a sulphur atom spanning C2 and C3), versus Proviron being 1α-methyl-DHT.

Don't be led astray by their analogous features to (5α-)dihydrotestosterone, though; these compounds are remarkably different in their metabolism which is what really matters. For example, Proviron metabolizes in vivo partly to desoxymethyltestosterone (Madol), a highly dissimilar and highly potent androgen known for causing rage. Really, the grouping of these two as "DHT derivatives" highlights the pitfalls of relying on such simple classifications.

great post i enjoyed madol back in the day as well. O/T but pheraplex also

 

[joos23]

I have both, and have used proviron before but never epistane.

I'm on 100mg/wk trt and just want to add a slight boost with a dht derivative because I'm a brutal aromatizer even on low dose test.
You guys ever done a test epistane cycle? What's the lowest dose you've used with decent results?

I love epi. Wish it was easy access like 15 years ago lol

 

[Muay Thai]

I love epi. Wish it was easy access like 15 years ago lol

same i had a few bottles in 2016 get snagged from some UK shops along with M1t lol

 

[joos23]

same i had a few bottles in 2016 get snagged from some UK shops along with M1t lol

I got some still, but I'm saving it lol
I got msten, mtren, methyl 1 alpha. Huge star still lol
Dmz
Man I can't remember lol

 

[goback2013]

I got some still, but I'm saving it lol
I got msten, mtren, methyl 1 alpha. Huge star still lol
Dmz
Man I can't remember lol

Well if you ever run out of insomnia meds you can just pop a couple caps of any of those compounds.

 

[joos23]

Well if you ever run out of insomnia meds you can just pop a couple caps of any of those compounds.

Lol
I stashed up years ago. I need to go through and see what else I got lol

 

[goback2013]

Lol
I stashed up years ago. I need to go through and see what else I got lol

Yeah ive tried all of those and probably still have a stash sitting in a storage bin somewhere.
Only thing I got out of those was extreme lethargy and sluggishness.
My favorite DS was halodrol.. the original from gespari or last run versions from CEL.
But even then lethargy becsme a thing after 4 weeks.

 

[joos23]

Yeah ive tried all of those and probably still have a stash sitting in a storage bin somewhere.
Only thing I got out of those was extreme lethargy and sluggishness.
My favorite DS was halodrol.. the original from gespari or last run versions from CEL.
But even then lethargy becsme a thing after 4 weeks.

Because it attacked the liver hard.
I loved legal gears line.
6oxo was legit
This could be an all night talk lol

 

[Arko.]

I tried 1/2 a capsule of 20mg epistane last night around 8pm and couldn't fall asleep until after 2am! Is this a common complaint?
I'm going to stick with the proviron now.

 

[goback2013]

I tried 1/2 a capsule of 20mg epistane last night around 8pm and couldn't fall asleep until after 2am! Is this a common complaint?
I'm going to stick with the proviron now.

It's somewhat common for DHT based orals to stimulate the CNS.
It's been my experience with var, dht, proviron,.. and in its own unique way anadrol.

 

[juicenstein]

Proviron

 

[Virtuous]

Man I would kill to get my hands on legit epistane again lol

 

[maxmusle1]

Last bottle I’ve seen , besides research Max
Never used but sounds very unique. .

 

[marssel]

Provirion all day everyday and I love running about 3 a day no bad sides and feel great, get rock hard muscle and dick from it.