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Ethyl oleate (again)

MyNameIsJeff

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I came across a claim by someone on the forum that products using 100% ethyl oleate (EO) as carrier are healthier since they allow a lower dosage of (kidney toxic) BA and BB. I'd like to hear some feedback on this without calling anyone out.

I agree that BA and BB have their down sides, but I haven't heard much positive about EO either. To my knowledge there are no safety studies for the use of EO for injectable products. In fact, there is some speculation that EO acts as a toxic mediator of ethanol poisoning. And I'm aware of one study that shows direct cardiotoxic effects of EO in vitro and in vivo.

Fatty acid ethyl ester (FAEE), a myocardial metabolite of ethanol, causes mitochondrial dysfunction in vitro in rabbits. We investigated the effect of these esters on rat heart mitochondria in vitro and in vivo. In vitro studies were conducted to investigate the binding of ethyl oleate (FAEE) to mitochondria and their capacity to hydrolyze these FAEE. In vivo effects of ethyl esters were studied by the direct transfer of [3H]oleate into the myocardium. Mitochondria were prepared from the myocardium of injected rats, and the amount of [3H]oleate bound to them was determined. In another in vivo study, 50 μl of 50 μM cold oleic acid ethyl ester was injected into the rat myocardium and the histopathological changes induced by oleic acid ethyl ester were examined by light microscopy. Our results show that fatty acid ethyl ester can bind to myocardial mitochondria in vitro as well as in vivo and the mitochondria can hydrolyze FAEE to fatty acid, which is a known uncoupler of oxidative phosphorylation. Of the total ethyl [3H] oleate injected, 8 μM [3H]oleate and 1 μM ethyl [3H]oleate was bound to the mitochondria. Significant myocardial cell damage was first observed on day 4 and markedly increased on day 30 after ethyl ester injection, with cells showing gross deformation and enlargement. However, no significant histopathological changes were observed in the myocardial tissue on day 2 after injection. Our results suggest that the FAEE may damage the myocardial cells as well as the mitochondria and may provide a metabolic link between ethanol abuse and myocardial dysfunction.
https://journals.lww.com/cardiovasc...Cell_Damage_by_Fatty_Acid_Ethyl_Esters.1.aspx

Of course it's all dose-dependent, and it may well be that using 10% EO in order to reduce the BB dosage may be overall beneficial for health. The reason being that in that case the amount of EO would be too low to induce cardiac damage, while the amount of BB would be too low to induce kidney damage. Alternatively, one could stick to low dosed products which don't need much solvents like BB and EO in the first place. That would probably be the best option.

So while I agree that low amounts of EO can be beneficial from a health perspective, I'd have serious reservations about injecting hundreds of milliliters of EO during a cycle. Also, avoiding ultra high-dosed products (500mg+) may be a good idea as well if one is concerned about the negative health effects of solvents.

Another point are possible allergic reactions to EO, but that's a whole other discussion, just wanted to push back a bit against the specific claim mentioned above.
 

saffire

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I love EO, it has been my favorite carrier oil beside miglyol840.
I like idea using less BB with it+it's totally painless, without any discomfort.
Few years ago i used Human Grade Testosterone from Farmak and Virmone , both using EO, never had any problems with reaction or anything

Acute toxicity

ETHYL OLEATE

LD50 Rabbit Dermal Acute > 5000 mg/kg
LD50 Rat Oral > 5000 mg/kg

so thats +300grams eo in one dose.

https://www.vigon.com/product/ethyl-oleate/?doc=MSDS/501688_vigon_sds_us_english.pdf&namee=EthylOleateSDS
 
Last edited:

maldorf

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From my experience, for me at least, EO was more painful. They say it can be an allergic type reaction for some. I used it for TNE. It is probably dependent too on how high its concentration is in the solution too though. It was probably pretty high for the TNE, cant remember.
 

MyNameIsJeff

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Jul 18, 2017
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1,727
I love EO, it has been my favorite carrier oil beside miglyol840.
I like idea using less BB with it+it's totally painless, without any discomfort.
Few years ago i used Human Grade Testosterone from Farmak and Virmone , both using EO, never had any problems with reaction or anything

Acute toxicity

ETHYL OLEATE

LD50 Rabbit Dermal Acute > 5000 mg/kg
LD50 Rat Oral > 5000 mg/kg

so thats +300grams eo in one dose.

https://www.vigon.com/product/ethyl-oleate/?doc=MSDS/501688_vigon_sds_us_english.pdf&namee=EthylOleateSDS
The LD50 tells you the immediately lethal one time dose in 50% of people. It says nothing about whether or not there are negative health effects that don't lead to immediate death, such as chronic damage to the heart muscle.

You also don't feel the kidney-toxic effect of BB, not noticing the damage means nothing. It has been used in European pharma products, so they probably had to do some small scale safety/tolerability study. But 1) the dose used in TRT is much much smaller than a bodybuilding cycle, so also the amount of EO used is much smaller and noticable adverse effects are therefore less likely. 2) They certainly did not do any tissue biopsies that could detect the kind of damage observed in the study I posted above.
 

saffire

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The LD50 tells you the immediately lethal one time dose in 50% of people. It says nothing about whether or not there are negative health effects that don't lead to immediate death, such as chronic damage to the heart muscle.

You also don't feel the kidney-toxic effect of BB, not noticing the damage means nothing. It has been used in European pharma products, so they probably had to do some small scale safety/tolerability study. But 1) the dose used in TRT is much much smaller than a bodybuilding cycle, so also the amount of EO used is much smaller and noticable adverse effects are therefore less likely. 2) They certainly did not do any tissue biopsies that could detect the kind of damage observed in the study I posted above.

Agree, tissue biopsies would be best to tell but there are none, mostly of us still injecting 1-2ml max (even ug stuff) at a time, i dont believe that much would be dangerous.
 

Jaythomas

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Aug 4, 2016
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EO is toxic to me. I get terrible lethargy and feel horrible. I almost went to the hospital over an EO ordeal. Even in low amounts it causes flu like symptoms. I suspect it is an allergic reaction but know others of have the same. I just avoid products with EO in them.... But many folks feel nothing at all and it helps mitigate painful products I understand.
 
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