Everyone's view on new figure judging criteria

[CB]

I've been discussing my views on the softer look that many judges are calling for in figure elsewhere on this board, but am really curious what the general consensus is out there. I just can't bite my tongue anymore when it comes to this continued talk of penalizing girls for coming in "too hard". I know we all hear that women's bodybuilding is being scaled down due to the fact that the judges believe that they are becoming too masculine, but what is their argument for figure. Their is a big difference between being "too big", and "too hard". These women are still extremely feminine, and definition shouldn't be an issue. Gina Aliotti has been dominant lately. You can't tell me that she has a small, softer look. This seems to be what the IFBB wants, so why is the NPC running from her look? If this change continues, there are going to be some amazing physiques robbed of placings by girls that have no business placing. All that hard work, and the judges will place them below girls that should be in a bikini contest, not a figure show. I said it in the other thread also.........if the small softer look is what the judges want, why don't they just go judge the FAME shows, or a simple bikini contest. I guess i've ranted enough about this for now. Am i the only one this infuriates?

 

[hotttsauce]

I want to see SOME muscle!

 

[Mutation]

I'm with you guys. I want to see what they got under that fat...this isn't a damn bikini contest.

There is a huge difference between having too much muscle and being too hard or lean.

You really don't see too many figure competitors shaving off their 5 o'clock shadow before the show...so whats the problem. (bodybuilding is another story)

 

[lynx]

From what I hear that's what they have been pushing for: bikini look, and that exact phrase has been said.

 

[CB]

From what I hear that's what they have been pushing for: bikini look, and that exact phrase has been said.

Very sad. I hope they know that they are going to ruin the sport. So much for actually having to work hard for a show.

 

[Mike Pulcinella]

Judging figure is impossible! No one can ever agree on what the perfect figure physique is!!

 

[oldfella]

Judging figure is impossible! No one can ever agree on what the perfect figure physique is!!

Mike I agree. But the problem is in the judgeing criteria, this is where the judges lose the plot. And Yes I have to agree with the majority, if you want a bikini contest then go to one.....miss tropicana contest or something. Hell they are trying to Quote "Scale down" BBing for f#$k's sake. So they arew going to to turn figure into a soft and cuddly contest too......although I wouldn't mind cuddling most of those girls LOL, but yes I want to see some hard work and muscle up there, not just fake boobs and wiggly butts!!

 

[buselmo]

the way i see it,
1- most women don't want to look like that (non-bodybuilding, non-fitness women... you know, the kind of women that think paris hilton has the perfect physique)...
2- supplement companies mostly target women who want to "lose fat" and (god i hate this word) "tone up"...
3- harder physiques on stage, harder physiques endorsing supplements, less people wanting to look like that (look at how whey protein influences most people... they usually say "i don't want to use whey protein... i'll get too big and masculine like the guys in the adds")
4- less supplement sales, angry fat cats

i'm not saying it's a conspiracy, i'm just saying it probably happens unconciously. if you ask 99.9999% of the people (ESPECIALLY WOMEN) out their, they say they want to be "thin", and they never say "lean"... and when you show them a picture of a fitness figure, they'd most likely say "something looks odd... she doesn't look good"... we (bodybuilders, and fitness figures) know art... we know how hard it is to build a body, and we appreciate that beauty... but we are a very small minority that contributes less than 1% to supplement sales, and media portrayed image of beauty.

today, vin diesel is huge... paris hilton is the epitomy of fitness and a "gorgeous" physique... take a fat burner and get a 22" waist... supplement with whey protein and you'll get 20" arms in no time (when most people see a 15" arm, they think it's 18"... so you can imagine what they think a 20" arm is)... do 200 crunches everyday to get a six pack... don't lift heavy, ever, cuz if you do you'll get too big for a guy, and if you're a women, you'll start growing facial hair... carbs are bad, food is bad, you can eat as much fruit as you want cuz it doesn't have any calories............................

the list goes on and on and on... because that's what 99.9999% of the people out there want and want to believe.

this is what the majority wants... if fitness and figure appeals to the majority of people out there (like the miss america or miss universe crap... where a bunch of anorexic 6' tall women barely stand up straight and compete on who can wear a size negative 15 bikini) more sales, more money, and more competitors would result.

and judges... i'm sorry, but they are human... this isn't a contest of who can lift the most, or who can do the most push ups... your judging them on PERSONAL PREFERENCE!!! yes, there are certain criteria... but come on... to get on a pro stage or an NPC stage and crack to 15, you surpassed that criteria and are judged on the judges personal preference. judges are human, they aren't machines.

 

[Rob Roy]

You have to understand that this is what they've been saying since day one w/ figure. I believe that the reason they "say" these things is really just to scare away overly masculine women away from figure, which I agree with. This scare tactic is to prevent female bodybuilders from crossing over and to prevent square jaws and limit drug usage in figure. Shit, look at Iris Kyle and her site inj marks. Sad thing is that I have not only seen, but judged shows where I have seen abcess' and abcess surgery scars on the glutes of figure girls. I can't tell you how many figure girls I know that have deeper voices than me.
Now, with that being said are they going to change the standard of figure judging??? For the most part, no. They havn't changed it, just selectively made examples at certain shows. Really, the judging is all over the place, small, big, soft, hard, seperated, smooth... It really comes down to politics. Hell, look at the pic below. This is Gina Allioti, does she look toned down?? She jus won probably the most prestigous show in the world.

 

[CB]

You said exactly what i wanted to......just a lot better

 

[Max32]

You have to understand that this is what they've been saying since day one w/ figure. I believe that the reason they "say" these things is really just to scare away overly masculine women away from figure, which I agree with. This scare tactic is to prevent female bodybuilders from crossing over and to prevent square jaws and limit drug usage in figure. Shit, look at Iris Kyle and her site inj marks. Sad thing is that I have not only seen, but judged shows where I have seen abcess' and abcess surgery scars on the glutes of figure girls. I can't tell you how many figure girls I know that have deeper voices than me.
Now, with that being said are they going to change the standard of figure judging??? For the most part, no. They havn't changed it, just selectively made examples at certain shows. Really, the judging is all over the place, small, big, soft, hard, seperated, smooth... It really comes down to politics. Hell, look at the pic below. This is Gina Allioti, does she look toned down?? She jus won probably the most prestigous show in the world.

Rob, bro, I gotta disagree.....in terms of figure, they pick favs on the national and pro level and stick with them. These new mandates only effect the in betweeners so to speak...I get some fucking tired of well....she won b/c she looks "natural" and the judges like that. BULLSHIT, who in the hell really knows what looks natural or is natural from one woman to the next. My girl has been dieting for 3 weeks and already looks damn conditioned going into this years pro qualifiers. Both she and I get asked daily what she is on, which I tell her to take as a compliment, but coming from a former Olympic swimmer who was drug tested 24/7, that is a slap in her face. IMHO, when I see them rewarding softer girls, I am like, why don't you tell the real hard working athletes who come in conditioned, to aim for coming in a week early and spend one full week eating pizza, cookies and burgers to come in softer, but still have the appearance of muscle, lol...sorry if I got off on a rant, but this topic gets me heated, most likely b/c I feel figure is what it always has been, something to pass the time between bodybuilding and give the judges something nice to look at...I think conditioning and muscle quality should reign supreme as long as it is done with keeping feminine tendancies intact...

 

[wrought]

I am like, why don't you tell the real hard working athletes who come in conditioned, to aim for coming in a week early and spend one full week eating pizza, cookies and burgers to come in softer,

lol, that's almost literally what they told my wife when she competed last year. The pro level is all over the place, but at the local level its even worse. Seems like the girls who don't diet and have more silicon than muscle are the ones being rewarded, while the girls who train, diet, and show up in shape are penalised...... at this rate they should just get Hooters to start sponsoring the figure shows.

 

[Steak Helmet]

HEll just get in there and get a modeling contract and get out

I would be a basket case if I was a lady...hey diet your ass off for 12 weeks...hey now that you have busted your ass and look amazing, we want you to be a bit softer, wait wait wait...how about a bit bigger you just a bit too lean...no no no how about more muscle...hold up hold up we want you to widen your back and shred your legs.

AHHHH HA you know these judges are thinking like a woman....they can never make up their minds. AHHAHAHAHAHAHAH just kidding ladies


if I want to see softer, I will go to the HOOTERS event, or I will attend the HAWAIIAN TROPIC show.

 

[espresso]

I don't usually post here but this one is close to me at the moment. My wife will be competing in her first figure show in June, her pics are the members pictures section, and this is driving me crazy. I'm doing her diet and I'm telling you, I'm stressing in terms of how lean to get her and not get "too hard". I HATE IT. She has beautiful feminine muscle and her and I both want it seen but we'd also like for her to do well in this show.

I guess we'll know what they want when it's over Good thread!

 

[hotttsauce]

You have to understand that this is what they've been saying since day one w/ figure. I believe that the reason they "say" these things is really just to scare away overly masculine women away from figure, which I agree with. This scare tactic is to prevent female bodybuilders from crossing over and to prevent square jaws and limit drug usage in figure. Shit, look at Iris Kyle and her site inj marks. Sad thing is that I have not only seen, but judged shows where I have seen abcess' and abcess surgery scars on the glutes of figure girls. I can't tell you how many figure girls I know that have deeper voices than me.
Now, with that being said are they going to change the standard of figure judging??? For the most part, no. They havn't changed it, just selectively made examples at certain shows. Really, the judging is all over the place, small, big, soft, hard, seperated, smooth... It really comes down to politics. Hell, look at the pic below. This is Gina Allioti, does she look toned down?? She jus won probably the most prestigous show in the world.

That is what I consider a pretty good look at what it should be. Even if her quads were a lil more seperated it would be ok in my book........ A TWO PIECE PIC WOULDA TOLD MORE THO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mikeheavypecs]

Judging figure is impossible! No one can ever agree on what the perfect figure physique is!!

Mike is correct! That is why I refuse to judge Figure. No one knows what to look for. Womens BB will always fluctuate from "masculine to more femine" back and forth as it has since the first womens bb contest in 1979 when Lisa Lyons won. It went to the extreme with Bev Francis in late 80's and then that was "too much" and then it took another direction. I think it will always fluctuate. Mens bodybuilding is much easier to judge!

Mike

 

[Rob Roy]

Rob, bro, I gotta disagree.....in terms of figure, they pick favs on the national and pro level and stick with them. These new mandates only effect the in betweeners so to speak...I get some fucking tired of well....she won b/c she looks "natural" and the judges like that. BULLSHIT, who in the hell really knows what looks natural or is natural from one woman to the next. My girl has been dieting for 3 weeks and already looks damn conditioned going into this years pro qualifiers. Both she and I get asked daily what she is on, which I tell her to take as a compliment, but coming from a former Olympic swimmer who was drug tested 24/7, that is a slap in her face. IMHO, when I see them rewarding softer girls, I am like, why don't you tell the real hard working athletes who come in conditioned, to aim for coming in a week early and spend one full week eating pizza, cookies and burgers to come in softer, but still have the appearance of muscle, lol...sorry if I got off on a rant, but this topic gets me heated, most likely b/c I feel figure is what it always has been, something to pass the time between bodybuilding and give the judges something nice to look at...I think conditioning and muscle quality should reign supreme as long as it is done with keeping feminine tendancies intact...

You missed my point. Read the end of my post where it says that "it really just comes down to politics." I agree with you on the look. Look at Yoly. Lot's of muscle. We've had to play the B.S. game of coming in softer and they judged harder.. Trust me when I say I understand the discouragement of the sport. This includes my wife and many clients that I prep. It sucks! Yoly gets the comments as well, "wonder what she's on." She's an ex NCAA track athlete and started her figure competitions buy collecting 3 pro cards in the diferent natural federations, but we still get the b.s. comments. I'm with ya on this.. I do believe that with the current dilema of congress pressuring sports with drug testing that the IFBB is smelling what congress is cooking...

 

[Max32]

You missed my point. Read the end of my post where it says that "it really just comes down to politics." I agree with you on the look. Look at Yoly. Lot's of muscle. We've had to play the B.S. game of coming in softer and they judged harder.. Trust me when I say I understand the discouragement of the sport. This includes my wife and many clients that I prep. It sucks! Yoly gets the comments as well, "wonder what she's on." She's an ex NCAA track athlete and started her figure competitions buy collecting 3 pro cards in the diferent natural federations, but we still get the b.s. comments. I'm with ya on this.. I do believe that with the current dilema of congress pressuring sports with drug testing that the IFBB is smelling what congress is cooking...

Yeah bro, I feel ya on that one. I know you are competing at Jr Nattys, is Yoly as well? Katina will be out there doing the show as well my friend...hear you are looking sick!

 

[Rob Roy]

Yeah bro, I feel ya on that one. I know you are competing at Jr Nattys, is Yoly as well? Katina will be out there doing the show as well my friend...hear you are looking sick!

To be honest, I did start a diet a couple of weeks ago, but I'm not sure when I'm competing or what show for that matter. It really depends on how I'm looking over the next month or so. I have a time frame in mind just havn't locked into a show yet. Yoly got sick early in the year with pnemonia, so she had a little set back, but is back to training really hard and will be in the latter part of the year. I hope to be out for Jr's whether I'm competing or not. We'll see i hope to catch up with ya sometime soon here though. Wish Katina our best please.

 

[vadim_b1]

IMO if they dont want any muscle on figure girls then might as well rename it and call it a beauty pageant. Cause that would be the most appropriate to call it. IMO the whole figure thing is a failure anyway, because what the hell can a girl do who isnt blessed with a perfect structure? she cant add any muscle anymore because judges dont want it, she cant pose to hide any weaknesses/bring up strengths, because there is no posing, and she cant perform a routine like there is in regular fitness because there is no routine to perform.

So what the hell is there left to do?
Diet and cardio? Thats what beauty pageant girls already do