Excellent Article: Gaining On vs Gaining Off

[Sesshomaru]

There are a lot of claims on this board and others about how much is gained on vs off, and recently there was a program called "I,Bodybuilder" which is marketing some insane claims. While this article picks apart the program, it goes into general discussions about how much is reasonable to gain.

There are charts and tables in this article so its easier to just post the link:

**broken link removed**

 

[Moen]

The pounds gained claims are always overrated or misunderstood indeed. You always hear impressive numbers but never actually see them lol

What's even funnier is that the reverse also appears to be true, remember Phil Heath blowing up the last year, I don't remember the exact number but his weight didn't rise the way you would have expected based on the visuals. (yet it is there to see for everyone)

 

[Phidias]

This excerpt cracked me up:

For anyone who disagrees that our lean 235 lb example is impressive, consider the fact that only 3 of the 12 Mr. Olympias had a competition weight that significantly exceeded 235 lbs. Keep in mind that there’s a very good chance that NONE of the Olympia winners were drug-free.
When you consider that these guys won the genetic lottery to begin with, then enhanced their supernormal potential with multiple drugs, the sobering limits of the drug-free, genetically mediocre majority become apparent.



Thanks for sharing, Sess, that was a good read.

 

[j4ever]

So this all started in black-ops,LOL

 

[concreteguy]

Wow

There are a lot of claims on this board and others about how much is gained on vs off, and recently there was a program called "I,Bodybuilder" which is marketing some insane claims. While this article picks apart the program, it goes into general discussions about how much is reasonable to gain.

There are charts and tables in this article so its easier to just post the link:

**broken link removed**

Your weight chart of the Mr, O's had Dexter Jackson at 230lbs and hes 5'6" tall. Phil just posted that hes clean as a been and lean at 250lbs. I'm sure that Phil means lean if he say lean. I saw a pic of Phil standing next to Rick Gaspari and he is probably in this height range. Wouldnt that kinda throw the scale out the window? The only reason I say this is we all hold Phil as a bench mark at Promuscle.

 

[Sesshomaru]

Your weight chart of the Mr, O's had Dexter Jackson at 230lbs and hes 5'6" tall. Phil just posted that hes clean as a been and lean at 250lbs. I'm sure that Phil means lean if he say lean. I saw a pic of Phil standing next to Rick Gaspari and he is probably in this height range. Wouldnt that kinda throw the scale out the window? The only reason I say this is we all hold Phil as a bench mark at Promuscle.

Are you saying that Phil said Dexter is at a lean 250 and clean? Or that Phil himself is 250 and clean and lean?

If youre referring to the first part, well given that the Olympia is coming up, I dont believe Dexter is clean at all and it doesnt matter if 250lbs is Dexters off season weight because the sample was looking at contest weights from Olympia champions, when the best of the best are supposed to look their best. The program makes claims of muscle gain and fat loss that are simply impossible without drugs. These claims will literally put you in contest weights and condition equal to that of Olympia champions, and in only a few weeks without drugs Thats the major point of this article.

If youre referring to the second part, well I dont know about Phil's height, current drug use, or whatever, so I cant address that directly. But in general think about this: how many 5'6-5'9 guys do you know that are 230-250lbs AND in contest shape, AND did it naturally AND were lifetime drug free? The answer is a whopping zero, and anyone claiming they are is either 1) beyond any genetics ever seen in humankind, or 2) violating one of the conditions above knowingly (liar) or unknowingly (ignorant). Again, the program claims you can naturally gain 38lbs of muscle of 8 wks in an advanced trainee.

 

[robot]

Without question the supplement marketing is full of shit but the referenced article also understates the ability for athletic trainees with average to good genetics to put on muscle.

Put a young underweight man on a football strength program and a gomad diet and he will outperform the stated drug numbers until he hits intermediate college strength levels at which point he will level off.

Similar results can be seen to advanced strength levels with the addition of drugs.

As the athlete gets closer to his potential or elite levels however the ability to add mass or strength quickly becomes significantly harder.

I think we all want beginners gains to continue and supplement companies are more than willing to tell us the lie.

I'm happy that possession of aas are not illegal on my planet.

 

[Sesshomaru]

Without question the supplement marketing is full of shit but the referenced article also understates the ability for athletic trainees with average to good genetics to put on muscle.

Put a young underweight man on a football strength program and a gomad diet and he will outperform the stated drug numbers until he hits intermediate college strength levels at which point he will level off.

Similar results can be seen to advanced strength levels with the addition of drugs.

As the athlete gets closer to his potential or elite levels however the ability to add mass or strength quickly becomes significantly harder.

Seems you missed the part in the article where the author says:

“Let’s step back for a second and look at the big picture. It’s RARE for a fully-grown, skeletally mature adult in his EARLY TWENTIES OR OLDER to put on more than 50 lbs of muscle during an entire training career. Just imagine a COLLEGE GRADUATE weighing a relatively lean 185 transforming into a muscular 235-pounder by the time he’s in his mid to late 20’s. This is a very formidable feat.”

 

[Sesshomaru]

Just wanted to post a really good follow up on a study done by natural and non-natural athletes:

**broken link removed**