Feeder Workouts - Pumping a muscle after meals for improved nutrient uptake

[buck]

This is what I would think, extra growth coming from just more volume. But he says 30 percent of 1 ROM, I'd wonder is that even heavy enough to count as extra volume? I guess if they do 50 reps and that is eventually close enough to failure it is stimulus for growth?

People i have seen that do manual labor which is not to failure seem to have more muscle then people that sit at a desk all day long. I doubt failure is the only signal the body uses for muscle growth. Muscle growth is just the bodies way of making a situation easier to live with if it thinks that is the best path to take. The body only cares about survival the best way it can, for the most part.

 

[ShZ]

This is what I would think, extra growth coming from just more volume. But he says 30 percent of 1 ROM, I'd wonder is that even heavy enough to count as extra volume? I guess if they do 50 reps and that is eventually close enough to failure it is stimulus for growth?

That's a good question. For untrained lifters I'd definitely say yes. I mean even cardio can build some muscle if you're not used to it or just everyday stuff. Why would bedridden people lose so much muscle so fast?!

The real question is, does it also stimulate growth in people that have been lifting for years on a daily basis?

From my experience over the last couple of weeks, I tend to say yes. Whether it's coming from an increase in volume, increased blood flow and nutrient partitioning or just cell swelling, I don't know. But it seems to be worth experimenting with

 

[ShZ]

People i have seen that do manual labor which is not to failure seem to have more muscle then people that sit at a desk all day long. I doubt failure is the only signal the body uses for muscle growth. Muscle growth is just the bodies way of making a situation easier to live with if it thinks that is the best path to take. The body only cares about survival the best way it can, for the most part.

Failure training is definitely overrated. I used to be the one who takes every single set to complete failure and often times even beyond. And not just with a single set per exercise like Dorian Yates but with a ton of volume as well. I trained like that for over 10 years and while I definitely put on a serious amount of muscle, I was constantly struggling with sore joints and tendons and too much fatigue. There were times I felt like a wreck. It also affected my sleep whereby I wasn't sleeping more than 5 hours and waking up every hour. Even though I was on a substantial amount of PEDs, it was just too much for my body to handle. I caused way too much damage.

My current philosophy of training is to find the exercises, rep ranges, intensity and volume that gives you the highest possible stimulus while causing the least amount of damage and fatigue. Mike Israetel from the YouTube channel Renaissance Periodization talks a lot about stimulus to fatigue ratio. Definitely worth looking into.

I'm not saying failure training doesn't have its place, as the research clearly shows, reps closer to failure stimulate more growth. But they disproportionately also cause more fatigue and the primary driver for hypertrophy is still volume. So, it makes sense to leave a couple of reps in the tank and do more sets instead.

BFR training may also be a great tool to keep fatigue low when training. Studies show, it causes an equal hypertrophic response compared to traditional lifting but with a fraction of the workload and damage that comes from moderate to heavy training. It would be interesting to see what happens when they pushed the training sessions of the BFR group higher than what they could recover from traditional training as the damage and fatigue is so much lower and would theoretically allow for more frequent training sessions and thus more total volume and growth

 

[marssel]

Hey guys,

I'm sure some of you've heard about Rich Piana's so-called “feeder workouts”. While I definitely don't agree with everything he had to say, I think he does have some good points with this one and tons of people swear it works.

What I'm referring to, is hitting a muscle with very light weight (less than 30% of your 1RM) for 50+ reps for a couple of sets once or twice per day, preferably after meals, in order to improve nutrient uptake and speed up recovery. Keeping in mind that only a 10 minute walk after a meal drastically improves insulin sensitivity inside the muscle cells, this could have some legitimate benefits for weak body parts, provided that all other variables like training and nutrition are on point and you're not overstimulating the trained muscles so you don't actually impede recovery.

Adding a couple iu's of insulin with a meal prior could obviously further benefit the protocol. I've been doing it for biceps and triceps lately with 3-4 sets of dumbbell curls and lying triceps extensions. I've found stretching inbetween or after the sets further enhances the pump and I have to say it does seem to work. I've gained about half an inch to my arms in less than a month while my legs basically stayed the same.

Obviously, there aren't any studies done on this topic, so everything's just anecdotal and theory, but I'm really interested in your thoughts

I believe in them for smaller muscles but you also wind up really towing the overtraining line so I’d use with small increments

 

[alfresco]

Failure training is definitely overrated. I used to be the one who takes every single set to complete failure and often times even beyond. And not just with a single set per exercise like Dorian Yates but with a ton of volume as well. I trained like that for over 10 years and while I definitely put on a serious amount of muscle, I was constantly struggling with sore joints and tendons and too much fatigue. There were times I felt like a wreck. It also affected my sleep whereby I wasn't sleeping more than 5 hours and waking up every hour. Even though I was on a substantial amount of PEDs, it was just too much for my body to handle. I caused way too much damage.

My current philosophy of training is to find the exercises, rep ranges, intensity and volume that gives you the highest possible stimulus while causing the least amount of damage and fatigue. Mike Israetel from the YouTube channel Renaissance Periodization talks a lot about stimulus to fatigue ratio. Definitely worth looking into.

I'm not saying failure training doesn't have its place, as the research clearly shows, reps closer to failure stimulate more growth. But they disproportionately also cause more fatigue and the primary driver for hypertrophy is still volume. So, it makes sense to leave a couple of reps in the tank and do more sets instead.

BFR training may also be a great tool to keep fatigue low when training. Studies show, it causes an equal hypertrophic response compared to traditional lifting but with a fraction of the workload and damage that comes from moderate to heavy training. It would be interesting to see what happens when they pushed the training sessions of the BFR group higher than what they could recover from traditional training as the damage and fatigue is so much lower and would theoretically allow for more frequent training sessions and thus more total volume and growth

Well said.

 

[qbkilla]

Failure training is definitely overrated. I used to be the one who takes every single set to complete failure and often times even beyond. And not just with a single set per exercise like Dorian Yates but with a ton of volume as well. I trained like that for over 10 years and while I definitely put on a serious amount of muscle, I was constantly struggling with sore joints and tendons and too much fatigue. There were times I felt like a wreck. It also affected my sleep whereby I wasn't sleeping more than 5 hours and waking up every hour. Even though I was on a substantial amount of PEDs, it was just too much for my body to handle. I caused way too much damage.

My current philosophy of training is to find the exercises, rep ranges, intensity and volume that gives you the highest possible stimulus while causing the least amount of damage and fatigue. Mike Israetel from the YouTube channel Renaissance Periodization talks a lot about stimulus to fatigue ratio. Definitely worth looking into.

I'm not saying failure training doesn't have its place, as the research clearly shows, reps closer to failure stimulate more growth. But they disproportionately also cause more fatigue and the primary driver for hypertrophy is still volume. So, it makes sense to leave a couple of reps in the tank and do more sets instead.

BFR training may also be a great tool to keep fatigue low when training. Studies show, it causes an equal hypertrophic response compared to traditional lifting but with a fraction of the workload and damage that comes from moderate to heavy training. It would be interesting to see what happens when they pushed the training sessions of the BFR group higher than what they could recover from traditional training as the damage and fatigue is so much lower and would theoretically allow for more frequent training sessions and thus more total volume and growth

Just my opinion, I think most people just starting out would day way better training the way you started out, low to moderate volume, train hard, take sets to failure. I think if someone just got into lifting and used Mike Israetel as their main source of information they would not make progress. Guy overcomplicates the shit out of training and comes out with new videos every day that are a bunch of word salad that contradicts other things he has said. IMO most would do better keeping it simple, training intense, hitting failure, than trying to calculate their rir while increasing volume every week until they need to take a "deload" to as Mike says....resensitize their body to volume.

 

[Tomgrass]

Failure training is definitely overrated. I used to be the one who takes every single set to complete failure and often times even beyond. And not just with a single set per exercise like Dorian Yates but with a ton of volume as well. I trained like that for over 10 years and while I definitely put on a serious amount of muscle, I was constantly struggling with sore joints and tendons and too much fatigue. There were times I felt like a wreck. It also affected my sleep whereby I wasn't sleeping more than 5 hours and waking up every hour. Even though I was on a substantial amount of PEDs, it was just too much for my body to handle. I caused way too much damage.

My current philosophy of training is to find the exercises, rep ranges, intensity and volume that gives you the highest possible stimulus while causing the least amount of damage and fatigue. Mike Israetel from the YouTube channel Renaissance Periodization talks a lot about stimulus to fatigue ratio. Definitely worth looking into.

I'm not saying failure training doesn't have its place, as the research clearly shows, reps closer to failure stimulate more growth. But they disproportionately also cause more fatigue and the primary driver for hypertrophy is still volume. So, it makes sense to leave a couple of reps in the tank and do more sets instead.

BFR training may also be a great tool to keep fatigue low when training. Studies show, it causes an equal hypertrophic response compared to traditional lifting but with a fraction of the workload and damage that comes from moderate to heavy training. It would be interesting to see what happens when they pushed the training sessions of the BFR group higher than what they could recover from traditional training as the damage and fatigue is so much lower and would theoretically allow for more frequent training sessions and thus more total volume and growth

Just look what Jordan Peters did ; push pull legs 2 sets per exercise where one to failure. Kuba Cielen? Same methods. It just works.

 

[Elvia1023]

I’m not sure I’d take advice from a guy whose muscles were filled with silicone

But Stan Efferding has made mention of post-meal walks, so I believe there’s definitely value in that

Rich was full of crap in many ways but he gave solid bodybuilding advice. He had been there and done it and had some really good insights.

Feeder workouts can be very useful. Just make sure they are done in a way that won't tax your CNS greatly. I especially like them for arms and calves.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Theoretically, and on paper it shouldn't work. But for me it can cut recovery time in half especially with DOMS present. I believe in it (which is merely me saying it works for me). If it works for you, do it, I say. These type remedies have been around in one form or another for decades. And it's not because they DON'T help. My two cents.

 

[ShZ]

Just look what Jordan Peters did ; push pull legs 2 sets per exercise where one to failure. Kuba Cielen? Same methods. It just works.

Sure it works. There are actually tons of approaches that work. But I think people on a forum like that, using all kinds of drugs and risking their health in order to become as big as possible, aren't just interested in what works but more in what's truly optimal.

 

[ShZ]

Rich was full of crap in many ways but he gave solid bodybuilding advice. He had been there and done it and had some really good insights.

Feeder workouts can be very useful. Just make sure they are done in a way that won't tax your CNS greatly. I especially like them for arms and calves.

How long have you been experimenting with them? And what have you seen in terms of results?

 

[ShZ]

Theoretically, and on paper it shouldn't work. But for me it can cut recovery time in half especially with DOMS present. I believe in it (which is merely me saying it works for me). If it works for you, do it, I say. These type remedies have been around in one form or another for decades. And it's not because they DON'T help. My two cents.

I totally agree. My DOMS have been almost non-existent in my arms since I've been doing the feeder workouts daily. It would be really interesting to see a study done this. Especially if one's max recoverable volume is maxed out

 

[w8tlifterty]

Rich was full of crap in many ways but he gave solid bodybuilding advice. He had been there and done it and had some really good insights.

Feeder workouts can be very useful. Just make sure they are done in a way that won't tax your CNS greatly. I especially like them for arms and calves.

The guys clowning on him bc he abused synthol and claim that negates his intelligence or advice are incredibly simple minded.

He was an absolute tank of a human being before touching synthol and had a very good physique. He did have some novel ideas and was worth a listen.

I was never a huge fan but some of these comments are just ignorant. Feeder sets most certainly have merit (especially with a bit of slin).

 

[Elvia1023]

How long have you been experimenting with them? And what have you seen in terms of results?

I haven't done them for ages but I have improved my calves, arms and shoulders doing feeder sets. I don't want to get long winded and obviously if you don't have it no amount of training will give you it but they are a great approach. They have to be done in a sensible way and rotated in/out. As I posted you want to pick body parts and movements that won't fatigue your CNS a great deal. The key words are pump and burn and I can hear Rich saying those words in my head

I have done feeder sets for something different and as a standalone but I have also done them as part of a syntherol cycle. I know they work because I have done them as a standalone but obviously when combined with syntherol the results will mainly be from the site enhancement. However they were used as a useful method of to get the most out of the syntherol.

In lock down I done calf raises every night and my calves improved over the months. The same for shoulders and doing lateral raises daily. No one is going to grow 3 inches but it's a useful thing to throw in especially if you want to improve a body part. If you want to throw the kitchen sink at things you would combine them with insulin, oral AAS and intra/post nutrition.

 

[ShZ]

The guys clowning on him bc he abused synthol and claim that negates his intelligence or advice are incredibly simple minded.

He was an absolute tank of a human being before touching synthol and had a very good physique. He did have some novel ideas and was worth a listen.

I was never a huge fan but some of these comments are just ignorant. Feeder sets most certainly have merit (especially with a bit of slin).

 

[Elvia1023]

The guys clowning on him bc he abused synthol and claim that negates his intelligence or advice are incredibly simple minded.

He was an absolute tank of a human being before touching synthol and had a very good physique. He did have some novel ideas and was worth a listen.

I was never a huge fan but some of these comments are just ignorant. Feeder sets most certainly have merit (especially with a bit of slin).

Exactly. I posted he was full of crap because he did hide some obvious truths (silicone etc) and he had so many issues and he even used fake weights (etc) but when it come to bodybuilding he knew his stuff. Obviously most of the stuff he done was for social media and views but he actually gave solid advice when it comes to bodybuilding and training.

I naturally have always pushed strength (heavy lifting) and would typically follow a more Dorian Yates HIT training method. Rich recommended something different and quite honestly his approach is better for most people imo. His training methods were fun, effective and would result in less injuries and potential issues through the years.

If people look past some of the gimmicks and actually watch his bigger by the day series and followed some of the advice they would probably get better results.

 

[ShZ]

I haven't done them for ages but I have improved my calves, arms and shoulders doing feeder sets. I don't want to get long winded and obviously if you don't have it no amount of training will give you it but they are a great approach. They have to be done in a sensible way and rotated in/out. As I posted you want to pick body parts and movements that won't fatigue your CNS a great deal. The key words are pump and burn and I can hear Rich saying those words in my head

I have done feeder sets for something different and as a standalone but I have also done them as part of a syntherol cycle. I know they work because I have done them as a standalone but obviously when combined with syntherol the results will mainly be from the site enhancement. However they were used as a useful method of to get the most out of the syntherol.

In lock down I done calf raises every night and my calves improved over the months. The same for shoulders and doing lateral raises daily. No one is going to grow 3 inches but it's a useful thing to throw in especially if you want to improve a body part. If you want to throw the kitchen sink at things you would combine them with insulin, oral AAS and intra/post nutrition.

By standalone you mean you weren't lifting heavy for that body part during that time at all? Or just without any PEDs or SEOs?

 

[Elvia1023]

By standalone you mean you weren't lifting heavy for that body part during that time at all? Or just without any PEDs or SEOs?

I just meant without SEO. So I have done them with and without. I first done them without and have done calves, arms and shoulders at different times. I have done them with seo for calves and arms. Everything was always trained hard in the gym regardless of feeder sets. I haven't done them loads but over they years quite a few times. I can't remember specifics but I am sure when doing arms nightly my arm training in the gym would have been minimal. Calves I trained in the gym with legs and in the night apart from in lockdown. I think when doing delts I might not have them them in the night when I had trained hard in the gym that day.

 

[ShZ]

I just meant without SEO. So I have done them with and without. I first done them without and have done calves, arms and shoulders at different times. I have done them with seo for calves and arms. Everything was always trained hard in the gym regardless of feeder sets. I haven't done them loads but over they years quite a few times. I can't remember specifics but I am sure when doing arms nightly my arm training in the gym would have been minimal. Calves I trained in the gym with legs and in the night apart from in lockdown. I think when doing delts I might not have them them in the night when I had trained hard in the gym that day.

Okay I see. I'm wondering what would be more effective,

1. multiple sets done once a day (let's say at night for example) or,
2. a single set after each and every meal

 

[Swifto]

Just look what Jordan Peters did ; push pull legs 2 sets per exercise where one to failure. Kuba Cielen? Same methods. It just works.

Both workout sets are to failure (sometimes more than 2 sets per exercise).