Feeder Workouts - Pumping a muscle after meals for improved nutrient uptake

[Swifto]

Failure training is definitely overrated. I used to be the one who takes every single set to complete failure and often times even beyond. And not just with a single set per exercise like Dorian Yates but with a ton of volume as well. I trained like that for over 10 years and while I definitely put on a serious amount of muscle, I was constantly struggling with sore joints and tendons and too much fatigue. There were times I felt like a wreck. It also affected my sleep whereby I wasn't sleeping more than 5 hours and waking up every hour. Even though I was on a substantial amount of PEDs, it was just too much for my body to handle. I caused way too much damage.

My current philosophy of training is to find the exercises, rep ranges, intensity and volume that gives you the highest possible stimulus while causing the least amount of damage and fatigue. Mike Israetel from the YouTube channel Renaissance Periodization talks a lot about stimulus to fatigue ratio. Definitely worth looking into.

I'm not saying failure training doesn't have its place, as the research clearly shows, reps closer to failure stimulate more growth. But they disproportionately also cause more fatigue and the primary driver for hypertrophy is still volume. So, it makes sense to leave a couple of reps in the tank and do more sets instead.

BFR training may also be a great tool to keep fatigue low when training. Studies show, it causes an equal hypertrophic response compared to traditional lifting but with a fraction of the workload and damage that comes from moderate to heavy training. It would be interesting to see what happens when they pushed the training sessions of the BFR group higher than what they could recover from traditional training as the damage and fatigue is so much lower and would theoretically allow for more frequent training sessions and thus more total volume and growth

Mechanical tension is the primary driver.

Progressive overload is the key for muscle growth. That can be added weight, reps, volume. Whatever works for you.

Leaving RIR and adding volume could be better suited for the older person.

As we age, our training should change, so there is no definitive correct answer on whether failure or volume is better.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Nothing progressive about a feeder. Just to alleviate soreness and expedite recovery. Insulin not a factor unless you're diabetic, bc otherwise you do make insulin (shocking right).

 

[qbkilla]

I haven't done them for ages but I have improved my calves, arms and shoulders doing feeder sets. I don't want to get long winded and obviously if you don't have it no amount of training will give you it but they are a great approach. They have to be done in a sensible way and rotated in/out. As I posted you want to pick body parts and movements that won't fatigue your CNS a great deal. The key words are pump and burn and I can hear Rich saying those words in my head

I have done feeder sets for something different and as a standalone but I have also done them as part of a syntherol cycle. I know they work because I have done them as a standalone but obviously when combined with syntherol the results will mainly be from the site enhancement. However they were used as a useful method of to get the most out of the syntherol.

In lock down I done calf raises every night and my calves improved over the months. The same for shoulders and doing lateral raises daily. No one is going to grow 3 inches but it's a useful thing to throw in especially if you want to improve a body part. If you want to throw the kitchen sink at things you would combine them with insulin, oral AAS and intra/post nutrition.

Could you describe how you did the feeders for day arms or delts? How many sets, rep range, how close to failure?

I'd guess for side delts maybe 3 sets of side raises each night, using 15 lbs high reps until failure?

 

[Tomgrass]

Sure it works. There are actually tons of approaches that work. But I think people on a forum like that, using all kinds of drugs and risking their health in order to become as big as possible, aren't just interested in what works but more in what's truly optimal.

Have you seen Jordan Peters?? If his physique does not scream: i am an expert in what I do then i dont know what will convince you…

 

[Elvia1023]

Could you describe how you did the feeders for day arms or delts? How many sets, rep range, how close to failure?

I'd guess for side delts maybe 3 sets of side raises each night, using 15 lbs high reps until failure?

Firstly, I just want to mention due to other posts obviously the bread and butter stuff comes in the gym. Although the way I done these is very different to using them after every meal for improved nutrient update. If I wanted to do that I would just go on a walk. I like short walks with my dog Flex after meals for that very purpose. I was looking at "feeder sets" as a way to improve a body part. As swifto posted the key to improvements are mechanical tension and progressive overload.

I done these sets in a variety of ways. For delts I think I done 100 reps of lateral raises but slow and controlled and that was rest paused until I got to 100. So over the days/weeks you allow progression. I was limited to 1 pair of db's so I couldn't move up in weight but I could do 100 reps in less sets/time. I think I might have added reps as I progressed as well.

Arms were similar and I think I started with 5 sets of 20 reps supersetting bi-ceps and tri-ceps but I started going to failure and aiming for a total number of reps as opposed to sets of 20.

Calves were different and I would pretty much do hundreds of reps using bodyweight and db's. I would do them just standing or on concrete stairs and unilaterally with db's and basically just abuse my calves for 15 mins. It was all about pump and burn with next to no rest.

So to answer your question usually 100 reps per bodypart and going to failure. I got more weights in the future but originally I think I had 12.5kg (28lb) db's.

 

[TheRoid]

I believe that some bland, very light physical activity after/between the largest meals is grossly overlooked when it comes to insulin sensitivity, even more so for those with a sedentary lifestyle outside the gym.

 

[ShZ]

Have you seen Jordan Peters?? If his physique does not scream: i am an expert in what I do then i dont know what will convince you…

He looks phenomenal, no doubt. I‘m not saying his training style isn’t working.

But I could also give you examples of world class bodybuilders who’ve been doing what you’d call the opposite approach of high volume low(er) intensity training. Jay Cutler was once asked how often he‘d been training to failure in his career and his answer was: “never“

There’s undoubtedly more than one way to approach training and one isn’t necessarily better than another. Studies show interindividual response varies quite dramatically. At the end you gotta figure out what works best for you.

If your joints and connective tissues can handle going to failure every time and you’re able to recover and make progress, sure go for it.

I‘m still going to failure on most isolation exercises myself but for heavy compound lifts I‘ve found, leaving 1-2 reps in the tank allows me to recover faster and make better progress

 

[livinlean]

He looks phenomenal, no doubt. I‘m not saying his training style isn’t working.

But I could also give you examples of world class bodybuilders who’ve been doing what you’d call the opposite approach of high volume low(er) intensity training. Jay Cutler was once asked how often he‘d been training to failure in his career and his answer was: “never“

There’s undoubtedly more than one way to approach training and one isn’t necessarily better than another. Studies show interindividual response varies quite dramatically. At the end you gotta figure out what works best for you.

If your joints and connective tissues can handle going to failure every time and you’re able to recover and make progress, sure go for it.

I‘m still going to failure on most isolation exercises myself but for heavy compound lifts I‘ve found, leaving 1-2 reps in the tank allows me to recover faster and make better progress

I'm not sure I remember hearing Jay say he doesn't go to failure. Maybe he meant past failure? Googling "Jay cutler workout videos" will show you evidence that he did in fact go to failure...

 

[OuchThatHurts]

I'm confused. Are we talking about high volume training as a 'feeder style' progressive training or are we talking about just getting a feeder pump on during an off day to force nutrients to the muscle and possibly remove any byproducts/reduced DOMS? Where does progression come in with an ancillary pump?

 

[qbkilla]

I'm confused. Are we talking about high volume training as a 'feeder style' progressive training or are we talking about just getting a feeder pump on during an off day to force nutrients to the muscle and possibly remove any byproducts/reduced DOMS? Where does progression come in with an ancillary pump?

I think the second one.

 

[qbkilla]

Bumping this up, has anyone else tried these? I'm adding them in next week. Thinking either side/read or arms...2 on 1 off at night.

 

[alfresco]

Curiosity? Yes. Experimentation? Yes. Attraction to something new? Yes. Sensory curiosity? Yes.

Will it change where you stand in the lineup? Not a chance.

 

[Lildawg]

Failure training is definitely overrated. I used to be the one who takes every single set to complete failure and often times even beyond. And not just with a single set per exercise like Dorian Yates but with a ton of volume as well. I trained like that for over 10 years and while I definitely put on a serious amount of muscle, I was constantly struggling with sore joints and tendons and too much fatigue. There were times I felt like a wreck. It also affected my sleep whereby I wasn't sleeping more than 5 hours and waking up every hour. Even though I was on a substantial amount of PEDs, it was just too much for my body to handle. I caused way too much damage.

My current philosophy of training is to find the exercises, rep ranges, intensity and volume that gives you the highest possible stimulus while causing the least amount of damage and fatigue. Mike Israetel from the YouTube channel Renaissance Periodization talks a lot about stimulus to fatigue ratio. Definitely worth looking into.

I'm not saying failure training doesn't have its place, as the research clearly shows, reps closer to failure stimulate more growth. But they disproportionately also cause more fatigue and the primary driver for hypertrophy is still volume. So, it makes sense to leave a couple of reps in the tank and do more sets instead.

BFR training may also be a great tool to keep fatigue low when training. Studies show, it causes an equal hypertrophic response compared to traditional lifting but with a fraction of the workload and damage that comes from moderate to heavy training. It would be interesting to see what happens when they pushed the training sessions of the BFR group higher than what they could recover from traditional training as the damage and fatigue is so much lower and would theoretically allow for more frequent training sessions and thus more total volume and growth

 

[Lildawg]

Rich was full of crap in many ways but he gave solid bodybuilding advice. He had been there and done it and had some really good insights.

Feeder workouts can be very useful. Just make sure they are done in a way that won't tax your CNS greatly. I especially like them for arms and calves.

Great point!

 

[marssel]

Great point!

Everything Rich said, did, or pretended to be was bull shit. He made us all look like morons and killer himself in the process probably his only contribution to the sport, as a cautionary tale.

 

[Aikman56]

Never tried this before doesn't seem like there are any downsides. I did do fst 7 when it was popular but didn't see anything special.

If you weren’t doing the FST drug protocol, then it definitely was t going to do anything. And even then, I have doubts.

If anyone else has additional information, experience, I’d like to hear it.

 

[AllOkJumpmaster]

does anyone recall how long Stan recommends waiting after finishing the meal before starting the 10 walk?

 

[juggy38]

I think if you wanted growth from super extreme pumps and blood flow, a 30,15,15,15 rep occlusion set would be more beneficial. Those things are brutal though

 

[marssel]

If you weren’t doing the FST drug protocol, then it definitely was t going to do anything. And even then, I have doubts.

If anyone else has additional information, experience, I’d like to hear it.

I like FST-7 for small dense body parts, bis-tris-calves-forearms and it def brought my strong calves up even further

 

[qbkilla]

Reading up on these looks like Piana says 100 reps for bis, 100 for tris, repeat 3x every day. In superset fashion. A weight you can hit 100.

Other people have tweaked it and say the day after you work the lagging part...but Piana has them Ed.