• All new members please introduce your self here and welcome to the board:
    http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
M4B Store Banner
SPC-210x65
Riptropin Store banner
Generation X Bodybuilding Forum
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Mysupps Store Banner
IP Gear Store Banner
Anabolic Hormones Store Banner
Ganabol Store Banner
Spend $100 and get bonus needles free at sterile syringes
Professional Muscle Store open now
LandmarkChem Email Banner
Medtech Store Banner
Bruce Labs Store banner
gd
Professional Muscle Store open now
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
granabolic123
Blackroids-animated-optimized-number-1
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
advertise1
apollo
advertise1
advertise1
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store

FERTILITY RECOVERY !SOS!

provimed50

Active member
Registered
Newbies
Joined
Oct 29, 2020
Messages
109
Hi guys, I'm 36 (soon 37) yrs old, 177cm tall and my actual weight is bout 119kgs, low bf, I think 10-12%.

Whatever, I have a beautiful 5 year old daughter and months ago my wife and Idecided that we want a second child before we get too old, she is 32, me 36.

My cycles:

I run gear since many years, I think 11, in the beginning mostly just low dose Test. but then I started with comp's and my dosages rised and rised.
Test E., Susta, Deca, Tren, Mesterolone and Masterone were my main roids, HGH only 2 12month runs, last one ended 1 month ago (5 IUs Jintropin).

But since my daughter is born I stopped running "hard" gear but I run 900 Sust and 450 Deca all year round (!) together with 50mg Proviron, HGH as mentioned above.

Actually I run "only" 900 Sust together with 50 Proviron. (Sust: Mo / We / Fr)

Five years ago I dropped Test to 200mg Cyp weekly with 100mg Provimed and 3x250IU HCG, after 4 months my mrs. got pregnant!
I did only bloods at this time and they come back good except my LH / FSH which was below 0.2, but I was fertile. No idea why!
cool.png


I found already so many fertility protocols in the net that I'm not sure whats wrong or right.

First I checked out Dave P's. protocol , damn very hars, not sure if I need it. Fertility doc. gives mostly bad or not succesful advice, I talked already with 2, one told me I should do a Clomid only therapy, thanks - but defo no!

Next week I'll do bloods and sperm check, I'll let u guys know the result!

I prepared a few options:
  1. Running gear as I actually do, 900 Sust and 50mg Proviron and stack low dose HCG (3x250IU or 500IU week), if that is an option for how long should I try this option? (But to be honest, I don't think it will work, so much test will make fertility impossible I think)
  2. Running 200mg Cypionat and 50mg Proviron and stack low dose HCG (3x250IU or 500IU week), if that is an option for how long should I try this option? (But to be honest, I don't think it will work, so much test will make fertility impossible I think)
  3. Doing a PCT like: 1 week after last pin 1000IU HCG eod for a total of 3 weeks (One week HCG only 2 weeks with PCT). 2 weeks after last pin PCT: Clomid 100mg (after 2 weeks drop to 50 for 4 weeks more) , 40mg Tamox (after 2 weeks drop to 20 for 4 weeks more) and Aro (as needed, I think 25mg eod should be fine), Proviron needed too? Furthermore:1000mcg B12 injection, 2g Vit C daily, Vit E and D daily, Tribulus and then I hope system recovers, if not, so what? HCG low dose only? or directly option 4:
  4. Super harsh: 1000-2000 HCG eod, 75IU HMG twice week, 50 Clomid for a total of 12 weeks, but if wife isn't pregnant till end of this hardcore run, so what? (To be honest for me this option is an overkill but heard it already from few competition guys that they had succes with this option! But no idea if these guys had luck or a good recovery system!

I hope u guys can help me, I'm really scared that I stay infertile. Wife wants to get pregnat as soon as possible, why so in hurry? Cause i can run this fertility program forever!

Thanks in advance guys!
 

provimed50

Active member
Registered
Newbies
Joined
Oct 29, 2020
Messages
109
Remark: Just got this from a friend which used AAS for over 15 yrs.

200mg Cyp / week
3x 500IU HCG / week
2x 75 IU HMG / week

16 weeks

I have two quests regarding this option:
  1. 200mg Test /week can decrease sperm activity up to 94% I've read, and 16 weeks HCG, a bit long in my opinion even its not a really high dosage, Aro or Adex is here defo needed here I think!
  2. Regarding my option 3 above, can I stack 50mg Proviron to the PCT or makes it no sense.

I'm open for every idea and help! Thanks again guys!
 

Swifto

Well-known member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Messages
2,971
Lets keep this simple.

1. Have you had bloods done and sperm quality, numbers are down from baseline?

2. Have you been trying for a baby already? If so, how long?
 

provimed50

Active member
Registered
Newbies
Joined
Oct 29, 2020
Messages
109
Hello!

1. Bloods done, LH and FSH all <0.3 (lowest possible amount), E2 is a bit high 89, sperm not already tested, I go to Doc. on Nov. 5th and make a spermiogram but I'm 90 percent sure due the long and harsh cycles, sperm quality is very bad. Bloods done last week during actual 900 Sust and 50 Proviron run.

2. We have already a child (she's 5, see above), actually we try it since 3 months but on ovulution time/date only once. Wife stopped birth control in February (If this is a helpful/necessary info for u.)
 

Swifto

Well-known member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Messages
2,971
Hello!

1. Bloods done, LH and FSH all <0.3 (lowest possible amount), E2 is a bit high 89, sperm not already tested, I go to Doc. on Nov. 5th and make a spermiogram but I'm 90 percent sure due the long and harsh cycles, sperm quality is very bad. Bloods done last week during actual 900 Sust and 50 Proviron run.

2. We have already a child (she's 5, see above), actually we try it since 3 months but on ovulution time/date only once. Wife stopped birth control in February (If this is a helpful/necessary info for u.)

1. LH and FSH are obviously going to be undetectable. Your HPTA is "shutdown" from exogenous Test. Thats nothing new not anything to be concerned about.

You're assuming sperm count, mobility etc.. Will be low. It isn't always. My sperm count is fine and I've been on TRT for about 10 years. The only way to know is via bloods.

2. 3 months isn't very long. I'd give it at least a year and in that time get bloods done on sperm, not LH/FSH.

Lets see what bloods come back with. You're assuming a lot and throwing drugs and cash at the situation, which may not be warranted.
 

bad rad

Well-known member
Registered
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
832
1. LH and FSH are obviously going to be undetectable. Your HPTA is "shutdown" from exogenous Test. Thats nothing new not anything to be concerned about.

You're assuming sperm count, mobility etc.. Will be low. It isn't always. My sperm count is fine and I've been on TRT for about 10 years. The only way to know is via bloods.

2. 3 months isn't very long. I'd give it at least a year and in that time get bloods done on sperm, not LH/FSH.

Lets see what bloods come back with. You're assuming a lot and throwing drugs and cash at the situation, which may not be warranted.

For the OP, we got pregnant twice while I was running some heavy cycles without hCG. Do the sperm test first.
 

provimed50

Active member
Registered
Newbies
Joined
Oct 29, 2020
Messages
109
1. LH and FSH are obviously going to be undetectable. Your HPTA is "shutdown" from exogenous Test. Thats nothing new not anything to be concerned about.

You're assuming sperm count, mobility etc.. Will be low. It isn't always. My sperm count is fine and I've been on TRT for about 10 years. The only way to know is via bloods.

2. 3 months isn't very long. I'd give it at least a year and in that time get bloods done on sperm, not LH/FSH.

Lets see what bloods come back with. You're assuming a lot and throwing drugs and cash at the situation, which may not be warranted.

What u mean is that LH/FSH can be low but I can be fertile and the amount of this both values means not much?

With "via bloods", you mean spermiogram, correct Sir?

Yes I know, it's not long, but I wont try a year with no active semen/sperm. So I'll do my sperm count as soon as possible. (I know thats just relevant after spermiogram but what if sperm count iw low/bad, should I start HCG/HMG/Clomid for 12-16 wks?)

Last quest, should I reduce Sust and switch to, example, 200mg Cyp / week or can I stay on the actual dosage of 900 Sust and 50 Proviron?
 

bad rad

Well-known member
Registered
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
832
Remark: Just got this from a friend which used AAS for over 15 yrs.

200mg Cyp / week
3x 500IU HCG / week
2x 75 IU HMG / week

16 weeks

I have two quests regarding this option:
  1. 200mg Test /week can decrease sperm activity up to 94% I've read, and 16 weeks HCG, a bit long in my opinion even its not a really high dosage, Aro or Adex is here defo needed here I think!
  2. Regarding my option 3 above, can I stack 50mg Proviron to the PCT or makes it no sense.

I'm open for every idea and help! Thanks again guys!
If you decide to do this do 300iu x5 days. Research shows a better response to lower but more frequent doses. Proviron 50mg daily is shown to increase fertility independent of HPTA hormones. According to Dave Palumbo, high test doses can increase fertility too due to the circulating test levels stimulating the Sertoli cells in the testes. In my case I ran 500mg test enanthate for 4 weeks and my testicles got way bigger without hCG. It was confusing and then we ended up pregnant.
 

FrancisK

Well-known member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 18, 2014
Messages
2,755
If you decide to do this do 300iu x5 days. Research shows a better response to lower but more frequent doses. Proviron 50mg daily is shown to increase fertility independent of HPTA hormones. According to Dave Palumbo, high test doses can increase fertility too due to the circulating test levels stimulating the Sertoli cells in the testes. In my case I ran 500mg test enanthate for 4 weeks and my testicles got way bigger without hCG. It was confusing and then we ended up pregnant.



BR....not taking a dig here genuinely curious, I feel like I have to give that disclaimer around here lately....

Are you saying testosterone use isn’t of any consequence to fertility and is actually is beneficial to it?
 

bad rad

Well-known member
Registered
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
832
BR....not taking a dig here genuinely curious, I feel like I have to give that disclaimer around here lately....

Are you saying testosterone use isn’t of any consequence to fertility and is actually is beneficial to it?
No, repeating what I read previously on that one. The studies using 600mg Test weekly didn't test for fertility so my understanding is it has never been looked at. My point was don't assume you're not fertile on a high dose.

Dave's hypothesis made sense on paper and my experience with it held true but that's anecdotal.

And that was 500mg every third day, not weekly.
 

provimed50

Active member
Registered
Newbies
Joined
Oct 29, 2020
Messages
109
If you decide to do this do 300iu x5 days. Research shows a better response to lower but more frequent doses. Proviron 50mg daily is shown to increase fertility independent of HPTA hormones. According to Dave Palumbo, high test doses can increase fertility too due to the circulating test levels stimulating the Sertoli cells in the testes. In my case I ran 500mg test enanthate for 4 weeks and my testicles got way bigger without hCG. It was confusing and then we ended up pregnant.

Only 500 IU x 5 ( total of 2500 IU only?). If yes 5 days in a row, e2d, 3x week...? Yes I heard of that, is it true that really high dossges can cause an 'overkill' so that HCG gets ineffectual, if yes whats a overkill dosage 3000/wk , 5000/wk... or even less or more?

Should I run my regular gear, 900 Sust / 50 Provi, during the HCG intake?

That means better no Proviron during HCG intske, right?

OK, summary, LH / FSH is down, but thats not so worse as I thought, what if sperm count comes back low or even very very low (zero)

Which option is then the best?

HCG / HMG / Clomid , length and dosage please.
or cycle along with low dose HCG, length and dosage please.

Thanks a lot guys!
 

bad rad

Well-known member
Registered
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
832
I was only giving you ideas. I'd get the sperm test first and then develop a plan of action to fix a low count.

In the hCG study they used 300iu x5 days in a row compared to 1500iu single injection. Bigger injections caused high E2 and desensitized the tests to hCG.
 

TheOtherOne55

Sponsor Rep
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Sponsors
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
3,670
According to Dave Palumbo, high test doses can increase fertility too due to the circulating test levels stimulating the Sertoli cells in the testes. In my case I ran 500mg test enanthate for 4 weeks and my testicles got way bigger without hCG. It was confusing and then we ended up pregnant.

THIS. This was what Ben Chow did based on a protocol from Justin Harris.
He said that he's had several clients boost the test up HIGH...and i mean high as in 2g and that stimulates something (I apologize for not knowing the science). Ben ran six weeks of over 2g and boom, pregnant wife who just gave birth last week.

My wife and I actually just started trying and I'm going to run this protocol as I'm in the middle of offseason. If this doesn't work then drop down to TRT and do the expected HCG and HMG route.
 

bad rad

Well-known member
Registered
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
832
THIS. This was what Ben Chow did based on a protocol from Justin Harris.
He said that he's had several clients boost the test up HIGH...and i mean high as in 2g and that stimulates something (I apologize for not knowing the science). Ben ran six weeks of over 2g and boom, pregnant wife who just gave birth last week.

My wife and I actually just started trying and I'm going to run this protocol as I'm in the middle of offseason. If this doesn't work then drop down to TRT and do the expected HCG and HMG route.
To clarify, I ran 500mg every third day not weekly.
 

provimed50

Active member
Registered
Newbies
Joined
Oct 29, 2020
Messages
109
Makes it sense to run 3x250 IU HCG for 6 wks with 900mg Test (always on). Is the low amount of HCG able to make sperm count better or not possible at this low dose and without HMG?
 

Gunsmith

Featured Member / Kilo Klub
Featured Member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 30, 2006
Messages
7,813
Steroids are not birth control.!!!

Both my kids were conceived while I was on a cycle , the first I was 15-16 weeks on to a very stout cycle (2g+) including tren. It was pure accidental.
My son was conceived 6 years later after steady cycling and dropping down to 200mg test a week for 12 weeks before starting another cycle.
I never had labs done or sperm test , the wife just stopped birth control and we started trying.
Best of all I only have one functional testicle.

Have your sperm count checked first and foremost , don't go trying to looking to fix a problem that doesn't exist
 

provimed50

Active member
Registered
Newbies
Joined
Oct 29, 2020
Messages
109
Wow many helpful comments here, thank u guys! On Nov. 5th I'll do sperm count, if result comes back negative I'll come back to this topic and let u know.
I hope u guys can help me then what I should do or what is necessary to get fertile (increase sperm count), big thanks again!
 

Swifto

Well-known member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Messages
2,971
If you decide to do this do 300iu x5 days. Research shows a better response to lower but more frequent doses. Proviron 50mg daily is shown to increase fertility independent of HPTA hormones. According to Dave Palumbo, high test doses can increase fertility too due to the circulating test levels stimulating the Sertoli cells in the testes. In my case I ran 500mg test enanthate for 4 weeks and my testicles got way bigger without hCG. It was confusing and then we ended up pregnant.

Nonsense. Please post some evidence/studies?

Estrogen is directly suppressive to steroli, leydig and germ cells in the testes. So thats why I suggest lowering exogenous Test when trying to conceive. Using more Test = more estrogen.

AI's dont work well with preventing testicular aromatase, so you're only hope really is to lower Test and use other fertility drugs like HCG, HMG and Clomid.
 

provimed50

Active member
Registered
Newbies
Joined
Oct 29, 2020
Messages
109
Nonsense. Please post some evidence/studies?

Estrogen is directly suppressive to steroli, leydig and germ cells in the testes. So thats why I suggest lowering exogenous Test when trying to conceive. Using more Test = more estrogen.

AI's dont work well with preventing testicular aromatase, so you're only hope really is to lower Test and use other fertility drugs like HCG, HMG and Clomid.

I Agree!

Polumbo said that he DOESN'T recommend to use any dosage of exo Test during a fertility program/protocol!
 

provimed50

Active member
Registered
Newbies
Joined
Oct 29, 2020
Messages
109
Here is what I think which could work if my sperm count comes back bad.

100-200mg Test Cyp per week (or totally off?)
500-1000 IU HCG EOD
75 IU HMG twice week
50mg Clomid ED
6.25-12.5 Aromasin ED (as much as needed)

All for 16 weeks, Clomid only the first two weeks.

opinions?
 

Forum statistics

Total page views
508,352,815
Threads
124,721
Messages
2,409,950
Members
155,799
Latest member
BIGPAPASWOLE
Top