FIND THE CURE FOR JOINT DISTRESS!

MikeS · Aug 21, 2003

We have 2 current threads concerning this-one by BBJ and one by Neversaydie. Joint (shoulder) pain restricting training.

I have an idea, but it would take scientific study and lab work to find the exact answer. But it is out there, Im convinced. Bear with me.

What drug is the greatest at reileving joint pains? Of course Deca.
Now what drug is the worst for causing joint pain? Winny no doubt. What do these drugs have in common? They both cause
progesteronic reaction in the body. Winny blocks, or is an anti-progesterone. Deca has progesteronic properties in itself. So the key to the whole joint issue is simply progesterone. Nothing, not glucosamine, or anything else, works as well as deca for joint pain relief. So, if a drug can be produced that was a progesteronic agonist, but not with the feminizing qualities or the HPTA shutdown, bingo! The best thing yet for joint problems. It cant be that hard if someone in science put their mind to it.

Wonder if I can patent the idea.

crackerjack414 · Aug 21, 2003

I think it would depend on the type of injury that causes the ache for a plausable treatment to be developed.

neversaydie · Aug 21, 2003

Predisone

What is Predisone? I know peoplef who have taken it. You cannot take it very long.

MikeS · Aug 21, 2003

Im talking of course about the usual aches and pains that accompany hard training, not extreme injury. Like those aching shoulders that are tight after a night sleep and hard to warm up when starting military press. Nagging pain you when benching. Ever notice as soon as the deca kicks-that waking pain after sleep is - ZAP - fucking gone!!!

BigBoyJ · Aug 21, 2003

You're right MikeS. Progesterone is necessary to keep tendons and cartilage healthy. The anti-progestagenic properties of winny block the progesterone which causes the tendons to dry out and lose elasticity. Deca on the other hand increases the amount of progesterone in the tendons and cartilage which makes them feel nice and healthy. Tren does this to a degree also.

I will personally never use winny again unless I was to use it strictly as an anti-progestin, in low doses. The stuff's just too mean to your body.

Like you said, if someone could invent a "progesterone mimicker" that would give the connective tissue healing properties of progesterone without increasing the risk of growing tits, we might just have a winner.

MikeS · Aug 21, 2003

BBJ-

Just as bad are the HPTA stunting properties of progesterone, apparently worse then estrogen. See deca dick.

dpsquat · Aug 21, 2003

nagging pains

between the jintropin the deca and the test susp! my body hurts bad! well i started taking 12.5 mg of viox and wamo im a new man! This stuff kils the daily aches and PAINS associated with A.S.

give it a try!

BigBoyJ · Aug 21, 2003

Re: BBJ-

MikeS said:
Just as bad are the HPTA stunting properties of progesterone, apparently worse then estrogen. See deca dick.

Oh yeah, no doubt about that. Nothing shrivels up my nuts like a tren only cycle. I've never done a deca only cycle, but I bet that's even worse. Fortunately I can still get a boner just fine while on tren only, but they don't pop up anywhere near as often as normal.

(I know that everyone here needed to know about my boner frequency)

Kidrok · Aug 21, 2003

Between shoulder pain and elbow pain.....seems like I always have 1 or the other, lately it's both! I'm tempted to throw in some deca now, I just hate to do it because it bloats me so bad. But summer's almost over so I guess the bloat won't matter!

KR

tbonus · Aug 21, 2003

Even my fingers and hands ache!!!! Yeah, I think a nice bout with deca will help me walk upright again.

raybravo · Aug 21, 2003

why doesnt trenbolone have the same anti inflammatory action as deca ? lol , something to think about eh ?

also , dpsquat, the vioxx is a cox-2 inhibitor , thus reducing prostaglandin production , it would be a compromise on gains bro .

MikeS · Aug 21, 2003

raybravo said:
why doesnt trenbolone have the same anti inflammatory action as deca ? lol , something to think about eh ?

Ray -
many people say it does! And think, since you get nowhere near the negative sides from tren (from the progesteronic properties) that you do from deca, some sensitive types will have moderate progesteronic sodes from tren. So basically-its progesteronic properties are there, just not nearly as strong as decas.

Tadger · Aug 26, 2003

Actually that explanation is only partially correct. The joint pains caused by winny have nothing to do with progesterone. Winny stimulates collagenase activity which interferes with collagen production. The strands are cleaved too often, leaving them shorter, which doesn't allow them to intertwine as much, leaving tissues much less elastic, and more prone to injury. Combine that with the constant stress of bodybuilding or powerlifting and this is what causes the joint pain.

Test has the same effect, but for the opposite reason. Test tends to suppress collagenase activity which leaves the strands of collagen too long... which means they'll basically be much too tangled... leaving you with the same problem. Tissues will end up brittle and less elastic.

Now nandrolone is a different story altogether. Sure, binds to the progesterone receptor as an gonist... but that's got nothing to do with the joint relief people experience. It also binds to the glucocorticoid receptor and interferes with the action of real corticoids. These are what cause the swelling, inflammation and discomfort associated with damaged joint tissues. This reaction is suppressed, so the nandrolone really does nothing to aid in the joint recovery besides acting as an anti-inflammatory. If you take it easy and just let the thing recover, nandrolone would help. Then again... so would popping a tylenol and an advil. You'll see fewer post cycle recovery problems too. lol. Nandrolone tends to desensitize the leydig cells too... so they don't respond properly to pituitary hormones.

Now... while on the subject... you really shouldn't use winny and nandrolone concurrently. Combine the fact that your joints and connective tissues aren't nearly as strong, your body's natural "goddamn you'd better stop workin now" signal is turned off, and the fact that you'll be movin heavier weights and training with higher intensity cuz you're on the gear... and you're in for a serious injury.

My recommendation for healin up your joints is moderate weight training (nothin super heavy and stay away from high reps, but you gotta put some stress on those things), some winny, a nice dose of test (cuz the two will pretty much counteract each other)... and a nice healthy course of GH. Toss in some glucosamine and condroitin and you're good to go.

raybravo · Aug 26, 2003

MikeS said:
Ray -
many people say it does! And think, since you get nowhere near the negative sides from tren (from the progesteronic properties) that you do from deca, some sensitive types will have moderate progesteronic sodes from tren. So basically-its progesteronic properties are there, just not nearly as strong as decas.

actually , since tren has such tremendous effect on the glucocorticoid receptors , any slight anti inflammatory effect tren might have wouldnt work , joint problems are very much seen on a cycle when u use , say tren only .

Winny stimulates collagenase activity which interferes with collagen production. The strands are cleaved too often, leaving them shorter, which doesn't allow them to intertwine as much, leaving tissues much less elastic, and more prone to injury.

actually , winny has been shown to increase collagen synthesis bro . (1)

(1)Falanga V, Greenberg AS, Zhou L, Ochoa SM, Roberts AB, Falabella A, Yamaguchi Y. Stimulation of collagen synthesis by the anabolic steroid stanozolol. J Invest Dermatol 1998 Dec;111(6):1193-7.

Tadger · Aug 26, 2003

raybravo said:
actually , winny has been shown to increase collagen synthesis bro . (1)

(1)Falanga V, Greenberg AS, Zhou L, Ochoa SM, Roberts AB, Falabella A, Yamaguchi Y. Stimulation of collagen synthesis by the anabolic steroid stanozolol. J Invest Dermatol 1998 Dec;111(6):1193-7.

True true, but I never claimed that it was suppressed. That brings up another point... the sheer amount of collagen produced also has a dramatic impact on elasticity and strength.

Too much will cause the tissue to be much less elastic and tear, while too little will leave the tissue much weaker. As you can see... there is a whole lot that contributes to the problem. It's not quite as simple as the guys stated above.

MikeS · Aug 26, 2003

Even though it disputes my original theory, thats some great info guys. What this board is all about.

But gh? I know in theory, yes its supposed to strengthen joints, but for real-no way. My first gh cycle (like AS, the one that is the most dramatic) my joints hurt like hell from it.

Big A · Aug 27, 2003

MikeS said:
But gh? I know in theory, yes its supposed to strengthen joints, but for real-no way. My first gh cycle (like AS, the one that is the most dramatic) my joints hurt like hell from it.

I call those 'growing pains'

You kow, like when you were a kid and all of a sudden your bones would be hurting and your mom would tell you that they are 'grwoing pains'.

Seriously though, I beleive GH does fix dmaaged tendons. My girl damaged both of her wrists lifting something heavy to prove a point. Anyway, they have ben that way for over a year. Doc wanted to put her on cortisol shots. I said no way, gave her a GH blast and now the wrists are perfect. She can fucntion like a normal human being again - before I had to cut up her steak as she couldn't.

mike man · Aug 27, 2003

Big A

Big A said:
Seriously though, I beleive GH does fix dmaaged tendons. My girl damaged both of her wrists lifting something heavy to prove a point. Anyway, they have ben that way for over a year. Doc wanted to put her on cortisol shots. I said no way, gave her a GH blast and now the wrists are perfect. She can fucntion like a normal human being again - before I had to cut up her steak as she couldn't.

Now you wouldn't have been sneaking a few bites of her steak while she was defensless against your big ass would you????
LOL