Frontloading? Beneficial or not

[randyh4]

Hello this is a statement out of pure curiousity. Is frontloading say 1 g of test at the start of a cycle really help kickstart. I understand its a primitive concern, but I really just want to hear about experiences, any thoughts pro's cons... thanks guys or girls

 

[tribe22]

id say if u can afford it go for it,it just get s your levels higher quicker thats it,i do it

 

[muscle_n_blood]

Frontloading a long ester helps nothing. It doesn't kick in til it kicks in, no matter how much you load up front. If you want your test levels up faster, add some prop or suspension to your long ester to begin with.
Ester blends like sust have shorter esters in them, so using a product like that will get you up to speed faster also.

 

[LK3]

understanding test and shbg will help you understand why its a bad idea

 

[Ness]

Frontloading a long ester helps nothing. It doesn't kick in til it kicks in, no matter how much you load up front. If you want your test levels up faster, add some prop or suspension to your long ester to begin with.
Ester blends like sust have shorter esters in them, so using a product like that will get you up to speed faster also.

Well not exactly. Enan peaks faster than prop. People confuse half live with peak times. IMO, frontloading is not going to make a huge difference...but to each his own.

 

[Yohimbe33]

I did a front load with EQ for 4 weeks at 1600mg per week and then rode the ester-was running a short 7 week cycle with short esters otherwise.

I was happy with the results and thought it compared well to standard EQ for 16 weeks at 400mg per week.

Front loading does work and is used medically. If a drug has a 10 day half life, it will be completely out of your system in 20 days. If the dose is 100mg injection, then 100/20 will hit the blood stream on the first day, then 100/20 on the second and so on.
So if you dose at 300mg, the dose hitting your blood stream will be 300/20 on day 1 and 300/20 on day 2. This lets the drug reach peak levels in a shorter period.

This is oversimplified and there are other factors such as androgen receptor saturation to take into account, but I've found it works well.

I was planning on running an EQ frontload on next cycle for 4 weeks at 2000mg per week and then riding the ester, but after reading Maldorfs thread on hemocrit levels and heart attacks, I'm starting think this isn't such a good idea.

 

[skulbone]

That's a pretty broad statement Ness. Just looking at the differences in recipes the content has many more items than just TE or TP. The type of oil, or amounts of ba, bb, or even eo is always different, and thus would make this a difficult thing to compare.

 

[Ness]

That's a pretty broad statement Ness. Just looking at the differences in recipes the content has many more items than just TE or TP. The type of oil, or amounts of ba, bb, or even eo is always different, and thus would make this a difficult thing to compare.

Oh really? So how does a solvent, oil, or sterilizer effect a hormone and its ester? Answer, it doesnt!

 

[maldorf]

Bottom line is that front loading will make you feel the effects of the drug much sooner than normal. It can effectively shorten the length of your cycle too since you peak much sooner. It can be unhealthy for you though I believe because if youre not careful you can get your levels way too high. Not only will you feel like crap, youll be doing harm to yourself as well if things get out of hand. I think its really much smarter and safer to just do it the old way and run your doses in a linear fashion. It might take longer to peak for you, but it will be much easier to manage your levels and much safer.

Front loading should only be attempted by those that are experienced,IMO. I would also never front load with Tren enanthate. I did a few times and things got out of hand.

 

[Yohimbe33]

Bottom line is that front loading will make you feel the effects of the drug much sooner than normal. It can effectively shorten the length of your cycle too since you peak much sooner. It can be unhealthy for you though I believe because if youre not careful you can get your levels way too high. Not only will you feel like crap, youll be doing harm to yourself as well if things get out of hand. I think its really much smarter and safer to just do it the old way and run your doses in a linear fashion. It might take longer to peak for you, but it will be much easier to manage your levels and much safer.

Front loading should only be attempted by those that are experienced,IMO. I would also never front load with Tren enanthate. I did a few times and things got out of hand.

What do you think of eq frontload for 4 weeks? Bad idea?
I only want to run a 7 weeker with prop and tren ace with winny in last 4 weeks, but am worried that my joints are going to take a hammering.
Since can't run NPP with the tren, was thinking an EQ frontload is next best thing.

Sorry for jacking a little Randy

 

[randyh4]

love it

Were all in this fight together Yohimbe, I love differing opinions. And so far every1 has had decent points from their own particular standpoint. I agree with Maldorf, that it can be dangerous if you're not certain of excessive dosing. IMO I think if monitored that it can benefit the start of a cycle as long as you kickstart and not become dependent on a much higher dosage

 

[LBJK88981]

Well not exactly. Enan peaks faster than prop. People confuse half live with peak times. IMO, frontloading is not going to make a huge difference...but to each his own.

I agree. I do not like the anecdotal reasoning behind the idea of "front loading." If you are going to use enanthate over say, propionate...then simply expect and be okay with the fact that the ester takes longer to break down thus delaying the onset of testosterone's effects.

-Alex

 

[maldorf]

What do you think of eq frontload for 4 weeks? Bad idea?
I only want to run a 7 weeker with prop and tren ace with winny in last 4 weeks, but am worried that my joints are going to take a hammering.
Since can't run NPP with the tren, was thinking an EQ frontload is next best thing.

Sorry for jacking a little Randy

I dont think frontloading something for 4 weeks and then going off of it is going to help a whole lot once you go off. You need to keep on dosing it, but at a normal level.

When I frontloaded I would double my dose and only do it for 2 weeks. 2 weeks was plenty at 2x the dose and you got results faster this way. I felt as if I got better results doing things this way than adding in short esters during the first few weeks. As I said earlier though, I dont think its a healthy thing to do and not worth risking your health over. Just take it slow and steady.

Also note, I had a heart attack and cardiomyopathy so Im probably not the best guy to ask for advice on this stuff LOL!

 

[NY Muscle]

The absolute best results I ever experienced from a cycle was front loading and then I never did it any other way after thet 1st time trying it.

 

[kid1dakota]

If a drug has a 10 day half life, it will be completely out of your system in 20 days.
This is oversimplified and there are other factors such as androgen receptor saturation to take into account, but I've found it works well.


.

What?? it will be at 25% at day 20.Completely out of your system much longer than that as metabolites hang around quite a while,this is why you can test positive even though the drug is no longer active.

Also The whole receptor saturation or downgrading is a more and more appearing to be a mythe.
Here is an article on the very subject:
The Myth of Receptor Downgrade
by priest943, Moderator / Ironlife staff writer


There is much talk on the net about roids some people know what they are talking about, and some well are just reinforcing myths. One thing I hear about all the time is the topic of androgen receptors or (ARs). It seems many people still believe that over the course of a cycle ARs downgrade this just isnt the case. People argue the downgrade point because of the fact there comes a time growth slows or stops though the dose of testosterone hasn't changed.

It also stems from the fact that we know other receptors of the body do downgrade. Take ephedrine for example, it binds to beta-receptors, over a period of time the number of receptors on a target cell begins to decrease. This is due to a decrease in the half-life of receptor proteins without a decrease in the rate that the cell is making new receptors which leads to a decrease in the potency of a given dose.

The above happens with many substances and receptors but androgen receptors are very different. Many studies that are coming out these days show in the presence of high concentrations of testosterone receptors up regulate to consume the higher amounts of testosterone in the body. When you stop growing it is not because of down regulation and here is why.

Most everyone knows a little about how steroids work increased protein synthesis right? Well there is much more to it than that. They also increase the activity of satellite cells, GH and igf-1, also increase new myofiber formation.

In one study I read a 500mg injection of testosterone per week increased GH levels by 18% and IGF-1 levels by 15% that shows a powerful effect! Activation of satellite cells by testosterone requires IGF-1 and as a loop effect aromatized test that turns to estrogen again increases IGF-1 so each plays off the other with the end result being increased satellite cell production. This leads to a greater capacity for protein synthesis by increasing fusion of satellite cells to existing fibers.

Proliferation of satellite cells is needed in order to meet the needs of thousands of muscle cells all potentially requiring additional nuclei. Differentiation is necessary in order for the new nucleus to behave as a nucleus of muscle origin. The number of myonuclei directly determines the capacity of a muscle cell to manufacture proteins, including androgen receptors.

So you see the increased test levels actually increase satellite cells which in turn down the road increase receptors. It also seems the higher the dose the more the activity of satellite cells increase. That doesn't mean jump right in to 2-3g doses of test you have to build up receptors over time. All jumping up to a huge amount of test will do is give you an estrogen level of a tranny queen who happens to have muscle lol.

Here are a few quotes to support my claims

Endocrinology (1990) 126 1165. In fibroblasts cultured from human genital skin which contained very low amounts of 5-alpha reductase, 2 nanomolar tritium-labeled testosterone [which is sufficient to saturate ARs] produced a 34% increase in androgen receptors as measured by specific AR binding, the best assay method known, and 20 nanomolar tritium-labeled testosterone produced an increase of 64% in number of ARs.

J Steroid Biochemistry and Molecular Biology (1990) 37 553. In cultured adipocytes, methyltrienolone and testosterone demonstrated marked up regulation of AR content upon administration of androgen. 10 nanomolar methyltrienolone increased AR content (as measured by binding to radiolabeled androgen) by more than five times, relative to zero androgen.

J Steroid Biochemistry and Molecular Biology (1993) 45 333. In cultured smooth muscle cells from the penis of the rat, mRNA production was found to be up regulated by high dose testosterone (100 nanomolar) or DHT. When 5-alpha reducatase was inhibited by finasteride, thus blocking metabolism to DHT, AR mRNA production was down regulated in response to testosterone. Blockage of the aromatization pathway to estrogen by fadrozole eliminated this downregulation effect. Estradiol itself was found to down regulate AR mRNA production in these cells.

Endocrinol Japan (1992) 39 235. One nanomolar DHT was demonstrated to increase AR protein by over 100% within 24 hours, relative to zero androgen level. The half life of the AR was demonstrated to increase from 3.3 h to 7.5 h as a result of the androgen administration.

Endocrinology (1996) 137 1385. 100 nanomolar testosterone was found to increase AR levels in vitro in muscle satellite cells, myotubes, and muscle-derived fibroblasts.

The main reason growth stops when the dose remains the same is the body doesn't like change, it will fight you every step of the way. When you increase the amount of anabolic hormones, catabolic hormones will rise as well. When the concentration of catabolic hormones is high enough growth is off set or even stops. When that happens you can do one of two things. Stop taking gear so the body can return to normal or increase the amount of test to once more be in an anabolic state. The increase in receptors is the reason you can use more and more test every cycle, and the funny thing is these receptors once built will hang around for a very long time even years ever increasing your ability to build muscle .

 

[randyh4]

ohh...

Kid1D. Would you suggest frontloading moderately to develop receptors over an extended period of time.??.

 

[randyh4]

So what I'm getting is catabolic hormones are released to counteract anabolics...soo either stop or up the test...and also if you do stop how do you know when your receptors are back to normal? The name of the game is Trial-n-Error at your bodys' expense. Great input guys thanks... Looks like I might have to get a RAT soon lol

 

[Swifto]

I've never understood this "kick in" time for longer esters anyway.

Even on longer esters such as Enanthate and Cypionate, labido, energy, strength, LBM all increase in the first couple of weeks anyway. he sense of well being may come a little further down the line, but the other positive effects manifest themselves in weeks, if not days.

I frontloaded my first cycle and got acne. I never did it again after that. If you wish to get the full effects sooner, use a short ester and sacrifice injecting more often.

 

[kid1dakota]

So what I'm getting is catabolic hormones are released to counteract anabolics...soo either stop or up the test...and also if you do stop how do you know when your receptors are back to normal? The name of the game is Trial-n-Error at your bodys' expense. Great input guys thanks... Looks like I might have to get a RAT soon lol

Yes.
I think they would normalize with a decent break.I can't give you a specific time but if you do PCT and a few more weeks.Or just take a break of 4-8 weeks depending on length of cycle.

 

[hawkmoon]

I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference.

People often front load because they are impatient, but test E - for example - is being released right away. It just takes time to grow muscle. The body can only build so much tissue in a given time - even amped up on hormones.